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SMW1
Veteran

May 10, 2002, 8:23 PM

Post #1 of 72 (26154 views)
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My New pond Can't Post

I'm almost ready to start with the block work and I would like you opinion on my design. I have designed this myself and will be building it myself.

Let me know what you think. I am open to critisism.
Attachments: Pond Design.jpg (73.7 KB)


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 11, 2002, 2:53 AM

Post #2 of 72 (26139 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

U can't empty your bio chamber of water? No bottom drain there I see? Won't u have to flush bio chamber once in a while?

So long as you can isolate your filter from your main pond (either by standpipes or valves), everything seems to be in order. I've got HUGE filter if your drawing is to scale. Cool



SMW1
Veteran

May 11, 2002, 10:07 AM

Post #3 of 72 (26124 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Kev,

Thanks for the comments. I am thinking about putting bottom drains on all the filter bays, but was thinking that I could just pond vac the bio filters as they shouldn't get that messy, since I have a settlement chamber and 2 mechanical chambers.

However thinking about it, I may as well do it properly and bottom drain the whole lot. It's more work, but I guess in the long run its allot easier.

The problem I have is I don't have a man hole (i.e. sewer drain) in my garden, so the waste needs to go to the waste chamber where I have to vac it out to the drain within the back of the house. I can;t see any other way of getting round this.

Each of the Bottom drains have slide valves as indicated in the diagram.

Did you mean You have a big filter or me ?Crazy

The reason for such a big filter = I Can't help myself and I know that I will totally over stock my pond in years to come. I currently have 27 koi and need to get rid of about 15. I have named and shamed 8 koi so far but still have to pick another 7 to get rid of. It's easy to buy them but not easy to get rid of them Frown.

Stuart


koihaku
User

May 14, 2002, 8:44 AM

Post #4 of 72 (26089 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Stuart

I am surprised that you are not going for the english design. Two banks of filtration tanks with the answer connected to the initial mechanical stage of each one. The cleaning is much easier, and u can just build a sump that the waste from the answer goes to, from where u can then pump it to sewer level by submersible pumps. The tanks are best made of stainless steel, and thats how im making my filter, as its all out in the open, and has easy acces to all parts. Even though this filter is not 30 percent of water wolume, it probably works just as well if not bette, and u only need one mechanicasl stage, with the answer connected. The only setback, i think, is that u have to build a large in ground room, to house the filters, but if u can accept that, then this is the best idea, i think.

Jon


SMW1
Veteran

May 14, 2002, 9:33 AM

Post #5 of 72 (26083 views)
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Re: [koihaku] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Koihaku,

Thanks for your comments, I really appreciate them. I was starting to think that kevkoi was the only one reading my post, at least that's 2 people now I'm starting to feel a little better Unsure.

I did give allot of thought into the design with "the answer" incorperated into it. However as you said I need a ground room and to be honest I really don;t have the space as my garden is not that big. When designing the garden the mrs said that I could have a total area of 5 meters by 2. Obviously she meant the whole thing including filters. So I have already gone over my land allowance (I feel like a school kid again).

I will post a picture of my garden (sketch) when I get in. Its too scale so you can see what I mean about not having the room.

Stuart


newgen
User


May 14, 2002, 12:41 PM

Post #6 of 72 (26076 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Stuart!

Come on! I've been reading and I'm reading it too~Mad LOL.....Just that i'm too fresh to give out ideas~

Sorry~Crazy



Regards,
John


koihaku
User

May 14, 2002, 3:59 PM

Post #7 of 72 (26068 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

oh ok, im sorry stuart, i didnt really think much about space, the problem with me is that i have too much of it. I live in a small town, only about 2500 ppl, and we have a lot of land, i i live on the outskirts, the only setback is having to drive 30mins to workFrown

Actually i have three large houses on my property, which are all falling apart, they are huge and were built in the 18hundreds, and one in the 1930s, but they need to be either renovated or demolished, and renovation would cost a couple of million euros, so thats too badUnsure. Right now theyre just a waste of good space.

Anyway, i have found a nice spot for the new pond, and cant wait to start construction, only that my plans arent totally finished yet. Anyway, when i start contruction i will constantly post pictures here.Smile

i guess that, with ur allowed space, you wouldnt be able to do much better than what ur planning. Just another thing i wanna know stuart, are u going to make the pond with blocks, or completely out of poured concrete? Mine will be poured, as i think this is a million times safer for leaks and cracks.

Now id like to ask all the malasyans here, why they dont make their filters the english way? Does the in ground concrete filter perform better in the tropical climate?

JonCool


SMW1
Veteran

May 14, 2002, 7:56 PM

Post #8 of 72 (26056 views)
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Re: [koihaku] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Koihaku,

You are very lucky to have such great land. And you think that 30 mins dirve is a set back.

I live on the outskirts of London and work in the center of London. It take me 1.5 hours to get to work.

Stuart


koihaku
User

May 14, 2002, 10:35 PM

Post #9 of 72 (26052 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, i guess that to you it wouldnt be that bad, but seeing as u can get across the whole length of Slovenia in about 3 hours, and the width in 2, it is quite a way. And the road isnt that good either, so to me its a long way. But i lived in australia for a few years, and i do know that most ppl do drive a few hours to work.Frown I guss im just lazy.

And could u tell me if u r going to use poured concrete for the pond please.Smile I am, and i think its the safest.

JonWink


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 15, 2002, 4:12 AM

Post #10 of 72 (26042 views)
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Re: [koihaku] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Erm, I'm not speaking for all Malaysians, but quite a few of us here are city dwellers and space is a problem in our tight little compounds to put an underground 'bunker' room to fit all the filters. Also the 'English' system uses alot of pre-fabricated FG 'vortex' chambers in these rooms. We don't have easy access to these FG vortex chambers that all these European/American Koi mags talk about. I suppose the market in Malaysia isn't big enough to warrant an import of these chambers in large numbers, plus the currency exchange for importing from Europe would probably turn most Malaysians off.
Labour costs in Malaysia is realatively still cheaper compared to Europe and that's why I think most of us are inclined to build the way we do.

Also having to build an underground room in Malaysia we'd have to think seriously about drainage. We're very prone to tropical storms and it rains almost every other day. We'd have to install quite a big pump to pump the water to waste or the room would be flooded pretty quickly..... and that extra pump is more $$$$ on electricity.

That's just my thoughts.


SMW1
Veteran

May 15, 2002, 10:25 AM

Post #11 of 72 (26025 views)
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Re: [koihaku] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Koihaku,

Sorry, I completely missed that question.

I will be building the Pond with a 6" thick steel rod refinforced poured concrete mix at the base. Bottom drains on top and then another 6" layer of poured concrete on top (again with steel rods to reinforce). Once the base is done I will be using medium density concrete blocks (the heavy ones) 18" x 9" x 4". These will be layed on their side so I have a 9" thick wall. Once the block work is complete I will render the entire pond and filter with a 2 to 1 mix of sand and cement. this first layer of rendering will be trowel grooved in preperation for the final coat. The final coat of rendering will be done with the same mix 2 to 1, but will have wizard fibre and waterproof agent mixed in with it. this will make the render waterproof and less liable to crack. The bottom of the pond and filters will be benched from 9" up towards the bottom drain (i.e. there will be a 9" down to 0" slope towards eacxh bottom drain. Once the Walls and base are renderd. I will give the pond and filters a coat of G4 before getting it fibre glassed.

Hi Kev,

Sounds like you guys ar ein almost the same situation as me. although I know that some of our members are not lucky enough to even have a garden yet (maybe soon Wink).

Stuart


koihaku
User

May 15, 2002, 12:59 PM

Post #12 of 72 (26018 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, let me tell u the plans that i have now, i will make the pond oval, and have one bottom drain in the center. All the walls will be sloping into the center. The drain will feer "the answer" chamber, and from there on i will have four more tanks of bio material. From the last bio chamber, the water will be pumbed to a 2 metre waterfall, which will be stuffed full of rushings, that i will get from chemistry, at the company that i work for. Theese look the same as bioballs, and the experts told me that the chemicals biodegrade very quickly, as they always have to clean the rushings because bacteria keep breeding on them. i will have a drain line purge fitted to the 4 inch line before it enters prime mechanical. Im very thankful to Peter Waddington, who told me that this design works great, and i shouldnt have any problems with bad water. My pond, inclusing the walls will all be poured concrete.

Concerning Kevkois comment about the FG tanks, I live in a wine region of slovenia, and i know a guy who makes stainless steel wine tanks (i have four wineyards, we drink too much)AngelicWinkBlushUnsure, i will give him the filter design, and he will have no problems making it for me, at a third of the cost of the ready made systems. That should lessen my costs extremely.

Anyway thanks for answering

JONSlyLaughCrazyCoolWink


SMW1
Veteran

May 15, 2002, 2:24 PM

Post #13 of 72 (26013 views)
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Re: [koihaku] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Jon,

Four wine Yards, Loads of Land, 3 old buildings, personall tuition from Peter.

What more can a guy ask for !!!!!!

I'm jealous Mad.

Stuart


koihaku
User

May 15, 2002, 7:58 PM

Post #14 of 72 (25994 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, firstly, everybody in this region has a wineyard or two, secondly, the old buildings are a nuisance either way, if i demolish them i have big costs, and if i renovate them i have huge costs, which i cant afford, and nobody to live in them. There arent many ppl in my area that would like to rent, and the land prices here are laughable, so it would be a waste selling, u see, its all a problem. Plus, last years wine is horrible (not enough rain, and too much sulphur addedCrazy all my faultUnsure) so its not even drinkable. And im very sorry for totally straying off the subject of koiUnsure

jon


ctong9889
User

May 15, 2002, 11:14 PM

Post #15 of 72 (25990 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Stuart,

I saw your plan, couldn't find any venturi. Since the shape of your pond is rectangular, there will be a few dead spots can't circulate well, you might think some ways to treat the dead spots; ie, by adding some flow jets or venturis ??? My pond is also rectangular, just finished and filled it with water last weekend, I plan to run 1/2" PVC pipe around the pond with some venturis where needed.

Hope everything works out good for your nice pond.

Best,
Chang


koihaku
User

May 15, 2002, 11:53 PM

Post #16 of 72 (25988 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Stuart,

May i suggest some air diffuser lids also, they have a special bottom drain at the East Riding koi co specially made for use with an air diffuser lid. It has a smaller pipe by the 110mm one, mase for connection of an airline.

Jon


SMW1
Veteran

May 16, 2002, 10:27 AM

Post #17 of 72 (25970 views)
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Re: [ctong9889] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Good point Chang, my design has changed somewhat recently and the vegitaion filter has now become an addition to the pond. I have 2 venturis, one from protien skimmer and the other from trickle tower (top left of picture). I totally agree that I need to avoid dead spots in the water so I may move the bottom drains around a bit to avaoid this. thanks for your comments.

I was thinking about a difuser cap for the borrom drain, but since I have 2 jap stones in each filter bay and a2 venturi's I thought that this would be enough DO. However I see you point and I think it may giv eth ekoi something to play in when they get bored so I will fit on eof the drains with a difuser dome.

Thanks guys,

Stuart


patrick123
Veteran


May 21, 2002, 10:52 AM

Post #18 of 72 (25917 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Stuart,

Since you have been helping us so much on our problems, how can we not response to your post? CoolCoolCool

Couple of questions/comments on your design:

1. Why would you need air line in the mechanical filter chamber since you are not breeding bacterias.

2. Does your surface skimmer bypass the mechanical filter and go straight into your bio chamber? Why is there a pump in at the surface skimmer?

3. Notice that your bottom drain flows straight into your mechanical filter. Isn't it better to just flush out the debris accumulated at the bottom drain into the waste chamber every other day, and take the cleaner water from midstream or surface and feed it to the mechnical filter? In this way, you have less "poo" flow into your mechnical filter and bio-filter and longer time between maintenance.

4. I think it will be nice to have bottom drain for the bio-chamber since you don't want to use a pond vac once a year and risk disturbing the bacteria.

5. I don't think you need a ground room in order to use "The Answer" right? Just use one of your mechanical filter chamber (after the settlement chamber) as your 'vortex' tank and put "The Answer" into it.

I'm curious to see how "The Answer" works out as I'm planning to put in this into my pond too.

Cheers,
Patrick


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 21, 2002, 5:31 PM

Post #19 of 72 (25900 views)
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Re: [patrick123] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

U know what patrick, I have airlines running into my mech chambers too..... just around the brushes. Who says we're not breeding bacteria there? Well, if we can support bacteria on the brushes and nets, why not? The more the merrier right?


johnson lee
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 5:28 AM

Post #20 of 72 (25887 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep, have to agree with Kev and Stuart!

I too have airstones in every filter chamber because I believe the more good bugs in the filter the better!Cool

When I clean the first chamber weekly, at least I am comforted that I have plenty of good bugs in the other chambers!Smile

Johnson


SMW1
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 9:34 AM

Post #21 of 72 (25876 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Patrick, I agee with Kev / Johnson, I have airlines in my mech filter as well. I feel that this is a must.

Here is my reason for feeling this way:

The good bugs will grow in any filter chamber. However the surface area of brushes are not as large as the other filter media we use in our bio filter. Also the build up of debris in this chamber will slighly discourage the growth of aerobic bateria (the good guys) and encourage the growth of anaerobic bacteria (bad guys).

However this can be reversed slightly by placing air into the mech chamber. The DO now present in this filter will encourage the growth of aerobic bacteria and limit the growth of anaerobic bacteria to the bottom of the chamber where their is less DO. Then these bad guys can be fluched away from the bottom leaving the good guys at the top of the chamber unharmed.

To prove this theory, I recently cleaned my brushed mech filter chamber. I rised all the debris out and sun dried the brushes for a good few hours. When I put them back in , I notice very slight drop in water clarity, and a trace of nitrites in the water tests.

Just a quick word of advice to the new members of this forum, never clean more than one chamber of the filter per week. Be it Bio of Mechanical.

Stuart


SMW1
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 9:45 AM

Post #22 of 72 (25875 views)
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Re: [koihaku] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I forgot to say in the last post, that after much investigation about "the answer" I have decided to go with Koihaku's suggestion. However I have found a way that I do not need to builsd a large ground room as the there are now 3 designs of "the answer" and I will have to incorperate 2 of the 410 models into 2 bays.

Once I have finished my analysis and re-drawm the design I will post it here.

I would like to thanks all of your for your suggestions and help while designing my new pond. If it was possible for you all to come over to UK I would be holding an open house (or garden Smile).

Stuart


patrick123
Veteran


May 22, 2002, 10:18 AM

Post #23 of 72 (25873 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok...since everyone is doing it, I will join the crowd too and put airstone in mine......when it is completed.

Any comments about using "The Answer"?

Cheers,
Patrick


johnson lee
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 10:59 AM

Post #24 of 72 (25867 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Stuart

Would love to go over to UK to see your pond one day! I travel to Britain at least once a year, to Birmingham and London. Perhaps when I am there, I can pay you a visit!Cool

Anyway, wouldn't it better for you to save some money and join us here in Malaysia for our koi party than for all of us to fly to UK? It would cost us more to go there because all of us will have to fly whereas only you need to fly here!!Wink

Make sure you post pics of your completed pond on this forum. Also, while I think the ANswer may be a good replacement for the mech. filters, the price is a discouragement. As long as the brushes and nets are doing a good job at a much lower price, I think I will stick to this for now!Crazy

Johnson


koihaku
User

May 22, 2002, 3:19 PM

Post #25 of 72 (25850 views)
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Re: [SMW1] My New pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad u went with the answer, im sure itl save u a lot of cleaning time.

Too bad u wont use the stainless tanks, they r much more accesible and easier to clean.

JonWink

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