Home  


  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System:
Building new pond

 




Web Services & EcommercePurchase Printer Toner and Ink (Original and Remanufactured) Online  - Antivirus Online



First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All


SiChang
User

May 15, 2002, 3:36 PM

Post #1 of 105 (98143 views)
Shortcut
Building new pond Can't Post

I need help to design a new pond for my new house. I have measure the area is 6ft x 27ft with 5ft deep.
1. Should my pond be 6ft x 18ft and the filter to be 6ft x 9ft?
2. How many chambers should I build? And what should be ideally in each of the chamber?
3. How many pumps should I have for this size of pond? I believe it should be in the last chamber.
4. Should I have 2 bottom drains or 3?

Appreciated if someone can help me to design the filter which I really need help of.

I have a pond builder who is charging me for RM20K without any rock mountain. Do you think it is expensive? Any recommendations?


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 15, 2002, 4:17 PM

Post #2 of 105 (98052 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

If he gets the filter right, I think 20K is reasonable. :)



KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 15, 2002, 4:21 PM

Post #3 of 105 (98049 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh and if you'd want another quote for the pond to compare prices, email me for the contact of a koi pond builder. Wink

my email: tanyongkoon@hotmail.com


fortune
User

May 16, 2002, 9:16 AM

Post #4 of 105 (98013 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

For the price of 20k of such size seems to be reasonable. Take Kev's advice and compare first before u make any mistake. I'm quite new here last few weeks but I felt I can offer u some advice. Kevkoi, If any of my advice are wrong please correct me.Laugh

Alright, The most expensive thing for a koi pond is the filter. If for the size u stated, the koi builder promise u a half your pond size filter inclusive of:
1. Hi blow air pump
2. Uv filter
3. Bio filter(The one with at least a 1,200 bio balls)

Then I think the price of 20K is reasonable. Last but not least where are u from? As I know the price for building a pond in Penang is quite expensive as I'm staying in Penang.
Smile

Last advice is, make sure u get a good filter. If you regret later it cost you a lot of money to repair it.

All the best in KOI Hobby!
Kelwin
Best regards,
Kelwin


SMW1
Veteran

May 16, 2002, 9:56 AM

Post #5 of 105 (98011 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi sichang,

Sounds like a nice size pond you will have.

1) I would agree that 6' x 18' is a nice size pond. and 6' x 9' would be an idea filter size for this pond. The volume of water in that size pond would be 15289.8 Litres which is quite a nice size (about 3,800 gals).

2) Ideally you need to have at least 2' x 3' would fit nicely. If you can fit more in then the more the better. I would make each chamber at least 2.5' deep. the first chamber should be your mechaninal chamber consisting of brushes or netting. the 2nd should be your bio chamber, consisting of stinted glass, flo-cor , bio balls or matting. the last chamber should be anothe rbio or chemical chamber consisting of again stinted glass, flo-cor , bio balls or matting with some PH buffering like Oyster shells. Each chamber should have a bottom drain to waste.

3) I assume the filter is going to be gravity fed. which mens you will need room in your last chamber for the pump. This is usually placed in a chamber of its own, but if you can build a shelf into the last chamber for the pump this will be fine. The pump will then feed your waterfall or trickle tower etc. for this volume of water 1 pump will be fine, I would reccomend something like an aquamaster 15000 which is 15000 litres an hour. so you will be turning over the volume of the pond once an hour which is perfect for koi ponds.

4) 2 2" bottom drains or 1 4" bottom drain would be enough. However if you want to put 3 x 2" in or 2 x 4" in, then thats completely up to you. If you bench the base of the pond towrds the bottom drain you shouldn;t have any problems. For the size of your pond I would reccomen 9" of benching to the bottom drain. When I say benching I mean slope toward the drain.

If you search through this forum there are lots of filter designs posted. However if you are still stuck contact me on stuartmwaterman@hotmail and I will help you design your filter.

I can not give you my opinion on the price as I am from the UK and prices vary. all I know is its so much cheaper in malasyia then england Frown.

I hope this information has answered most of your questions

Stuart


SiChang
User

May 16, 2002, 10:37 AM

Post #6 of 105 (98009 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the quick and good advise from all of you.

Kelwin, I am currently live in BU and will move to my new house in Damansara Indah. I have a very small pond in my current house with a total of 10 kois. I started to keep Jap. Kois for a year and a half now. I was from Penang too. I have also visited the Tanjung Bungah Koi farm and the koi farm near Free school. Kois there are much cheaper compare to KL. I was thinking to buy in Penang and bring it back to KL after my new pong is completed.

Stuart,
Point 2, Regarding the depth of the filter (gravity fed), you mentioned 2.5' deep, how would the pond water flow into the filter via bottom drain if it the filter depth is higher than the depth of the pond. I thought the filter is always deeper than the pond? Or only the settlement chamber to build it deeper than the pond? Would you please clarify? I am thinking of building 6 chambers. Please advise how deep is each of the chambers? How deep should the last chamber should be for the pump?

You quoted " Each chamber should have a bottom drain to waste", how do I design this as the bottom drain to waste is always lower than to the drain. i.e. How do I let go the waste from the chambers? I appreciate your valuable advise. Many thanks.


SMW1
Veteran

May 16, 2002, 10:42 AM

Post #7 of 105 (98008 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

The bottom drain works on preasure. as long as the filter water level at top is the same as pond water level at top then you have no probelms.

The bottom drains from the filter will also work the same way. as long as the waster is lower than the surface of the water graviety will always push the water to the lowest part.

Hope this answers your questions. If not I will send you a mail.

Stuart


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 16, 2002, 11:59 AM

Post #8 of 105 (98005 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

No.. your filters DON'T have to be deeper than your pond. U'll need just one chamber to be the same depth or slightly deeper than the bottom of your main pond if your filter is fed thru the bottom drains. The rest of your filter chambers would be between 2 1/2ft to 3ft deep. U may also need a dry sump chamber if your drains are higher than the bottom of your pond for you to completely empty the ponds should the need arise. In any case, if you're intent on designing the filter yourself and have problems, u can email me too. OR, the pond builder I recommended could solve your problems too.

Zen Koi at Tanjong Bungah, I feel have quality koi for good prices. I've quite a few pieces from there as well ('cos my grandparent's place is in Penang and I go there a couple of times a year.). Rinko Koi (Free School Rd), have over inflated prices and fish in bad shape.... besides I think they're more interested in 'Flower Horns' than koi now. Well, as you can see, my kois make the journey from Pg to KL too....

Around the PJ area, UCP Koi Farm carry a lot of kois, and sometimes their prices are really quite good (actually, sometimes they make mistakes..... LOL).

Good luck.


SMW1
Veteran

May 16, 2002, 4:42 PM

Post #9 of 105 (97993 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I'd just like to say at this point although Kev reccomends that one of your chambers needs to be the same depth or deeper than you pond. I do not agree.

I woul dhave one chamber at half the depth of the pond. The reason being that it is not reccomended that you change more than 50% of your water at once. Therefore you would only need a chmaber 50% of the depth of the pond.

If you do need to get all the water out (very rare that will need to do this), then I would suggest moving the pump from the last chamber to pond. this way you ar enot left with a filter chamber which is 6' deep but only 3' wide which would be very difficult to maintain.

Stuart


SiChang
User

May 20, 2002, 5:27 AM

Post #10 of 105 (97961 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the pond builder told me, he always build filter at the same depth as the pond or deeper so that the water is cleaner.

Is that true deeper filter will have a better filteration?


johnson lee
Veteran

May 20, 2002, 6:06 AM

Post #11 of 105 (97957 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi

In my opinion, I do not think that a filter should be as deep as the pond depth. A very deep filter will not make much of a difference to the filtration process, it just makes cleaning your filter chamber much harder.Crazy

However, having said that, I believe a filter chamber should be at least 2 ft deep but no deeper than 3ft.

I think your pond builder wants to make more money by telling you to make a deeper filter!Wink Clean and clear water depends more on the type of filter media used, the arrangement of the media and sufficient good bugs to eat up all the bad bugs.

Just my opinion.

Rgds

Johnson


(This post was edited by johnson lee on May 20, 2002, 6:21 AM)


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 20, 2002, 6:08 AM

Post #12 of 105 (97957 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

BS..... that's all I can say. Imagine maintaining a filter chamber that is 1ft x 2ft x 6ft deep. Anything drop to the bottom, u can just about forget retrieving it. Usually most of the chambers are between 2 1/2ft to 3ft. I have a few chambers as deep as the pond, but that houses the dry sump, and the first chamber of my settlement chamber. The rest of the bio chamber and settlement are 3ft deep. (Couldnt' even go to 3 ft some places because had sewer pipe running thru.;)


SiChang
User

May 21, 2002, 8:05 AM

Post #13 of 105 (97918 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

I have almost talk to 4 pond builders. Each pond builder has their own way of doing his business. Some never listen to what customer wants and request the customer to follow their way of designing especially the filtration design. I do not want to name the builder here but as the more popular of the pond builder is the more boasting they are. I think most of the pond builders are more interested to build koi pond for people who do not know about anything about filtration system, so that they can B.S. you all the way and charge you with a big price tag, I mean a huge price. We are in Malaysia, labour is chaep, sand and cement are cheap as well. So why cost so much to build the pond which is nothing in the pond but only the filter system which also does not cost that much. Pond builder would like to take advantage to those who do not have any knowledge at all so that they can slaughter them and cook them well done. Furthermore, every of the builder always said there are the best but none of them have the similiar way of designing the filter. I am in doubt with all of them. One of the pond builder even said this web site is totally useless and ask me not to follow this web site. I don't think I will bet my money to him. I would think if someone could really help me in designing the filter system which I then will make decision on how to do it with my own way. I do not know who has the same problem as me but I am really upset to those builders who really trying to slaughter me. Again my pond size is 6'x18' and the filter should be at one size of the pond of 6'x9'. Please help as I know all of you here is to share and give the most honest opinion. Thank you.


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 21, 2002, 8:26 AM

Post #14 of 105 (97914 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

BOY, u sound frustrated..... Unsure Hang in there. Wink

I do believe that all the pond builders have their own way of building/designing filters and have their own idea on what they consider successful ponds.

They are also out to make money (they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't!), and in some ways, they build for a small niche market so they don't get jobs all the time and they do need to make that little bit extra. That said however, it's up to you give the job to the contractor that gives you the best price (and not necessarily the cheapest.).

Have a look at their 'resume'. They would be glad to show you some of the ponds they have built and you can judge for yourself if it's any good.

I think HWONG gave us a pretty reasonable quote to go by..... RM1000 to a ton of water. Note however, if your pond is small, it will exceed that above quote simply because the fixed priced items wouldn't vary too much..... plus they have to mobilise the ppl and get all the logistics done.

If possible, u should get the builder to give you at least a sketch of what their filters would be like. If they suggest filling all chambers with coral, I suggest u show him the door. Other wise, I don't see how the basic design of a filter will differ so much. Some contractors feed the filter from the bottom drains (like my pond), some ppl prefer their filters fed from mid water (because the mid water contains less heavy particles and supposedly won't clog up the bio filter if the settlement is not big enough) and the bottom drains go straight to waste.

U basically can get the basics of filtration from this forum and judge to see if the filter designed by the contractor works or not.

good luck... and cheer up.


SMW1
Veteran

May 21, 2002, 9:12 AM

Post #15 of 105 (97908 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Sichang,

If you search for filter or pond design, you will find a vast amount of information you can use to design your own pond.

Two recent examples are :

http://www.koi.com.my/...forum.cgi?post=10428

http://www.koi.com.my/...forum.cgi?post=10599

Stuart


dttk
Veteran

May 21, 2002, 10:04 AM

Post #16 of 105 (97904 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi fellas, what a discussion...Pirate. Let's take it easy on the BS...Crazy.We've heard from kevkoi, stuart, johnson and others already! This discussion would not be complete without my input....Sly. I generally agree with kevkoi. 1) the bottom drains should open into a) a dry sump which should be as deep or slightly deeper or slightly shallower than the deepest part of the pond. This would facilitate easy removal of heavy waste during flushing. And Stuart...maybe you've misunderstood the idea for having a deep sump. It's not only for the purpose of large water change but also for ease of waste removal as mentioned above. A bottom drain with a long up-bend opening into a shallow sump will not function very well in waste removal as alot of water is required for flushing. b) the settlement chamber. Some ponds have this system. c) both the dry sump and settlement chamber. My pond has this system. Hence there is no need of midwater feed. I could flush the bottom drain and settlement chamber at the same time. I feel that midwater feeds are more suitable for very deep ponds, >6ft. 2) depth of bio-filters. Definitely need not be more than 3ft 6in below water surface. Reason, good bugs thrive in shallow water where DO is higher. Maintenance is also easier. 3) Pond builders. In this part of the world, it is not easy to find a pond builder who is widely read, widely travelled and truly knowledgeble. Most of these so-called professional pond-builders were actually ex-contractors who also happen to keep koi. They boast of their years in the business and the effectiveness of their systems. Many are not willing to listen to your opinions or ideas. In this forum, there are many learned people with wide experiences. Ideas are discussed, challenged and debated. Hence, it would not be right to say that this forum is useless. We are the best people to give our honest opinions about the working conditions of our ponds, not the pond builders. 4) Making money. Who wouldn't want to? In this materialistic world, it would be even harder to find a good pond builder who would not take advantage of his talent to make more money. Those who've been to any Medical Specialist centre would know. So, be it good or bad pond builders, they're out to make money. In my case, I burned a big hole in my pocket but I'm now beginning to appreciate the results. Smile
Always friendly :)


johnson lee
Veteran

May 21, 2002, 12:34 PM

Post #17 of 105 (97895 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi sichang and the rest

I can sympathise with sichang and understand the frustrations he is going through!Crazy

To be fair, there are a number of honest and good pond builders out there who is willing to listen to your ideas, designs and plans for the pond, filter etc. but I agree with sichang that some pond contractors are only out to make as much money as they can from people with little or no knowledge of pond construction. They also have a one-tracked mind about pond building. If you try and argue with them, they will sneer at you and say "I have built more ponds than you can ever imagine, so who knows better?"

Then they will quote you an astronomical sum and say, "If you want clear water from a hassle-free filtration system etc. then this is the price to pay!" And if you say to them that your budget is say RM5K, then they will give you a dirty look and tell you why are we wasting their time! I had one contractor who quoted me RM28K for a pond that comes complete with zen garden, bonsai plants etc. which has got nothing to do with koi-keeping!

So out of frustration, I decided to read up on pond building from bookstores, internet and then based on my budget and financial constraints came up with a pond that best suited my needs. I got a contractor friend to help me with the pond building. It costs me about RM5K to build the pond with a 4 chamber filtration system. It is very basic, no bottom drains or mid-feed. I am satisfied with what I have done based on the money I had. My kois are happy, I am happy and my pocket is happy!Cool

So my advice to all would be koi-ponders is to read up as much as possible about koi ponds, the nitrogen cycle, filtration systems etc. and you form an idea in your head how you want your pond to be. I am realistic enough to know that since I do not have a bottom drain or back flush in the filters, I have to put in extra work to keep the filters in tip-top condition. That's something I have to accept for the choices I have made.

Once, you can accept that, then work within your budget. Who says that you need RM10K and above to build a pond? Of course, I may offend some connoisseur koi keepers for having an 'incomplete' pond. I guess, ultimately as long as my kois are not 'suffocating' or dying due to diseases, and are growing well, I consider myself to be a responsible owner.

I have learnt a lot from this forum and if any contractor says that this website is nonsense, then pls do not engage his services. So sichang, do not give up hope, I am sure you will be able to build your dream pond soon but be patient. For all you know, you might end up designing your own pond and supervising the contractor on what to do!Cool Kevkoi has written and illustrated some excellent ideas on pond and filter construction and I suggest you study them and perhaps can incorporate some ideas from there. I am sure Kevin wouldn't mind?Laugh

Good luck to you and keep hanging in there!

Rgds

Johnson


SMW1
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 12:22 AM

Post #18 of 105 (97877 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all,

I'm still not sure why you would need such a deep sump. I understand that if you wanted to remove the entire volume of water from a chamber into the sump you would need a sump twice as deep, as gravity would cause the water to seek the deepest point. However if you are only going to flush the chambers which is about 20 - 30% of the chamber volume, you could have the sum the same dept as the other chambers.

If you do need to remove all the water from the chamber, why not just have a slide value on the inlets from the pond (i.e. bottom drains), this way you could shut the bottom drains off, but still pump the water back to the pond. The same way you would to flush the bottom drains of the main pond.

I'm still not convinced.

Stuart


SiChang
User

May 22, 2002, 5:16 AM

Post #19 of 105 (97863 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

First of all, I would like to thank all of you for your good comments and feedback. KevKoi is very-very kind and he is helping me to design my pond. Thanks.

I do agree that all pond builders out there are to make money but I do think the price they are charging has to be reasonable based on the work and materials they are using. I don't think we (the koi enthusiasts) should give pond builders to take advantage to slaughter us. One of the pond builder has hinted me they are making 80% NETT profit! I have realized that most of the pond builders always think koi keeper has to be a rich man hobby, if you are not rich, forget about this hobby. This is what they are trying to tell me. I even heard one of the contractor said to his partner, "Itu IKAN besar, tangkap dia kuat-kuat' " He is a big FISH, catch it tight" I won't give my money to this kind of contractor. Will you? Out in the market, they are not many who are really reasonable and honest. Even though if you pay them, you have to follow what they said and they never listen to your ideas and inputs. I'm having a tough luck.


johnson lee
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 5:33 AM

Post #20 of 105 (97861 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi sichang

Hang in there and be patient!Smile I am sure you will find a good and honest contractor somehow to help you build your pond.

But all said, it is good if you too have sufficient knowledge about the pond and filters so that you will not be conned by them. Let me say that HWong gave a good guesstimate about pond prices-approx. RM1000 per ton sounds a reasonable price to me! So if you are making a 10 ton pond then expect to pay RM10K for it! We've got to be fair to the pond builders too!Wink

Good luck to you and think positive!

Johnson


dttk
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 5:52 AM

Post #21 of 105 (97859 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Stuart, good morning to you. Okay I know what you mean. In my case, during the half yearly filter cleaning, the standpipes in the mechanical and bio-filters are removed one after another. These 4in drains goes to the dry sump. The mechanical and biological chambers are completely drained of water. These chambers are quite deep, abt 4.5ft eventhough the media only occupies the top 3ft. The opening of the drain goes down another few inches, then elbows and goes to the dry sump. By the time it reaches the dry sump, this opening would be about 5ft deep already. There is a drop of another 6in before the floor of the dry sump is reached. A pump with an automatic trigger is placed here. It starts up when rising water level raises the trigger. Water in the sump is pumped out into the drain. So that's the reason why in my case, the sump has to be as deep as the pond. Hope you understand what I mean. Any comments.....Smile?
Always friendly :)


SMW1
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 9:06 AM

Post #22 of 105 (97848 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Dr Tan,

Ok, I see what you mean now. So rather than having the dry sump the same depth as the pond, you just need it at the right depth to be able to gravity feed the chambers. I think this is where all the confusion is. If I am right in saying this, this is the point I was trying to make earlier. I didn't realised that you would actually empty all of the water in the chambers to dry sump. I doubt that I will do it this way, but I see what you mean now and I can imagine that it would be very effective. My personal preference is for a gravity fed sump/waste chamber, control by slide values from each bottom drain of the other chambers where the sump chamber whould be almost the same depth as the other chambers, as I would only ever flush out 20 - 30% of the water from 1 chamber at a time and them pump this or vaccume it to waste. I just don't like the idea of having to get down that 2' x 2' x 6' hole if things went wrong (probably cause I'm quite a big guy (210 lbs) and my shoulders are likeley to get stuck in there Crazy.

Thanks for the explanation Smile.

All,

It seems as though in Malaysia and S'pore most of you guys/girls have your ponds built for you by a contractor. I think this is where the UK varies slightly as I would say 90% of all the UK members in this forum built their ponds themselves.

Is it not easy to get hold or the materials to build you own pond, or do you guys/girls over there just work so hard that you don't get the time Cool?

Stuart


TonyG
User

May 22, 2002, 9:09 AM

Post #23 of 105 (97847 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Errr.... sorry guys, i read this tread with great interest and i learn alot about pond construction myself through this topic..Wink I do not have any pond as i live in a high rise building like most S'porean is, so i can't contribute on this topic.Blush But what interest me is the problem you have with pond contractors and i fully understand all this. I have a friend which also been through all this crab so finally, he went to his kois dealers for help. This kind gentlemen recomend him to a contractor and actually sit together with him and the contractor to design his pond. The last time i heard is that he is very happy with the outcome ( i have yet to see his pond)Tongue

What my point is that i'm sure you have a lot of reputated koi shops that you can trusted on, so why not apprached them for help. I'm they will have contacts and by recommending, they are actually put their stakes on it right?

Just my commentsTongueTongueTongue

Tony


dttk
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 9:52 AM

Post #24 of 105 (97843 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Stuart, yes, you guessed right. Over here, it's the hired pond builder who does the job. Not us. It's not because we're lazy or anything, it's just that most of us(in my case) do not have the time. No problem with getting the materials either. Many are not as adventurous as you people in the UK, US or Australia. Hats off to you people who build your own pond...Wink. Coming back to the drains and chambers, I understand why you prefer your gravity-fed system. But don't you think you'll be able to do a more thorough cleaning job of the mechanical/settlement chamber if it was empty? The same goes for the bio-mats chamber. Once empty, I flush it well with pond water, drain off the debris and fill up again. The mats don't go out of place when you flush because they arranged in the form of cartridges and hold on very well. This is just my experience. Do whatever you think will suit you most...Sly. As for the 2'x2'x6' dry sump, you could make it 3'x3'x6' to suit yourself, isn't it...Tongue? Cheers!
Always friendly :)


SMW1
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 9:59 AM

Post #25 of 105 (97839 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

I see your point about the cleaning, and I suppose while I'm in the design / construction phase It couldn't hurt to go deeper with the sump/waste chamber. However, I still have a pond vac if all else fails Sly.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All
 
 



Search for (options) Back to Koi.com.my Main Page

  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement     
Copyright 2001~ 2002 Hileytech Sdn Bhd , All Rights Reserved.  
No part of the forum postings can be copied without prior permission from Hileytech Sdn Bhd and the Author of the Posting.
For comments and Suggestion, Please contact the Webmaster at koi@hileytech.com