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New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi

 




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patrick123
Veteran


May 17, 2002, 11:39 AM

Post #1 of 35 (29051 views)
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New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi Can't Post

Dear All,

I've been having sleepless night thinking about how to design a perfect pond. Pirate

Luckily, I happened to meet Kevkoi (Kevin) on the net and he is so kind and so willing to share his experience. As a matter of fact, he even took the pain to help me design my pond and even the pergola.Angelic

The pond is not contracted yet, but I feel that it will be a great lost not to share with our fellow koi hobbyist so that more people can benefit from it.

Attached are the pictures. Don't you think these are professional looking architect drawings?

I have seeked Kevin's permission before I post these on the web. But since I think these pictures should be copyrighted by Kevin Wink, if you wish to use any part of these pictures, please send a thank you note to Kevkoi on this post. Laugh

BTW, thanks so much for your help, Kevin. I will post my pond picture on this post once the pond is constructed.

Cheers,
Patrick


(This post was edited by patrick123 on May 17, 2002, 12:09 PM)
Attachments: elevation.jpg (28.0 KB)
  plan.jpg (35.4 KB)
  schematic.jpg (35.0 KB)
  filtersection.jpg (50.2 KB)
  TT.jpg (22.6 KB)
  pergola.jpg (33.7 KB)


Loo_Ferringo
User

May 17, 2002, 1:12 PM

Post #2 of 35 (29009 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick

It look great.How about "open house" when it is complete.Well,we are in the high rising flats,we can only dream and envy.Cheer Wink

kenny



patrick123
Veteran


May 17, 2002, 1:34 PM

Post #3 of 35 (29008 views)
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Re: [Luo LH Kenny] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Kenny,

Its been my dream for a long time too. Finally, the dream comes true.

The pond I'm going to construct is only 7-8 tons. I'm sure our fellow koi friends from other countries are going to laugh at me for the size of the tub. Only if Singapore were bigger, we would not have to folk out so much $$ for the land.

Cheers,
Patrick


thtan
Novice

May 17, 2002, 3:06 PM

Post #4 of 35 (28999 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Patrick,
Beware of that guy , he tricked me into building his pond, don't let him con you!Mad
BTW I have seen the drawings before it was posted and had asked him to post it to get the forum's opinion and comments. He rightly said it was Patrick's pond and it was'nt right for him to post it.
I am glad Patrick has done it himself to share with members and solicit comments.
Please do tear the drawings apart so that Kev ( my son) can learn from the sifu's.
Nevertheless I am proud these two young ppl have shown their unselfishness to help each other and share what they know best with the forum. (Sorry Patrick I actually do not know your age)
Good luck. I am sure Kev and I would like to visit the pond once it is completed.
CheersSly


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 17, 2002, 5:10 PM

Post #5 of 35 (28992 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

U're welcome Patrick.....
What I'd like to know is how $$$ the quotation given by the contractors.... ;)

My dad now knows how much his 'nice' pond design costs.... and it ain't cheap. Oh well, better and cheaper to get it right the first time.

cheers.
kev.


dttk
Veteran

May 19, 2002, 6:13 AM

Post #6 of 35 (28954 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Well done Kevkoi for the great diagrams! I too am moved by the mutual efforts of these 2 kind people in helping each other for the sake of koi-keeping. I feel that the design is simple and effective, especially if space is lacking. However I'm not very comfortable with the 2ft long x 1ft wide dry sump. While I understand that it should be as deep as the pond, I find it abit too narrow. Furthermore, there are 2 drains coming in from the side with standpipes and a bottom drain and pump on the floor. In the event that you need someone to repair or service the dry sump, there will not be enough room. How about increasing the width to 2ft? Of course this will affect the size and shape of your pond a little but in the long run...convenience. This is only my what-you-may-call "2 cents worth" opinion...Smile. Please feel free to comment.
Always friendly :)


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 19, 2002, 6:53 AM

Post #7 of 35 (28948 views)
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Re: [dttk] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

he he he.... I realised that too. I've asked Patrick to increase the width of the whole filter to 2ft. I think he needs more filtration. The 30% is not met in that design.


patrick123
Veteran


May 19, 2002, 8:05 AM

Post #8 of 35 (28946 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Mr Tan,

Please do not blame your son (Kev). After getting crazy on koi, who can resist the temptation of building a nice pond especially the dad is paying for it? WinkWinkWink

I'm actually a lot older than Kev, and not as fortunate to get my dad to sponsor. Tongue

To answer DTTK's question, I took another measurement and managed to squeeze another 1 more ft and have a total of 6ft width to build the pond and the filter. If the filter takes up 2ft, my pond is only 4ft wide. Based on the design, if I have the vege filter sit on top of the 4ft width main pond, assuming that the vege filter water way is 1.5ft wide, then my main tank will look like it is only 2.5ft wide (4ft-1.5ft) Crazy

So, I'm thinking of increasing the filter chambers to 2 ft wide, and at the same time move part of the vege filter waterway back to be on top and cover slightly on the filter (have it a little higher than the filter chamber) so that the main tank will look bigger. I know this will obstruct the access to the filter chamber and is probably not very convenient in the long run. However, I guess I have to leave with the limitation. And as to how this can be done, I guess I will have to consult the fellow koi hobbyist and perhaps the architect who did the original design Wink.

Also, I've found out that to build a pond in Singapore is not cheap. It is definitely more than S$1k per ton like what I read on the post. It is more like S$2k per ton. CrazyCrazyCrazy

I have checked with 3 contractors. 2 are experience pond builder and 1 is my main contractor without any pond experience. The first 2 contractors quoted $22k and $13k. The last contractor quoted $6k. The first 2 are complete with filter materials and pump. I believe the 2nd one actually use coral chip which is very cheap material (and I have read enough about the effect of coral chip in the long run). The 3rd one is without materials and accessories.

What do you think? Should I go for the cheapest one now that I already got the design in hand? All of them are quoting reinforced concret.

Please advise.

Cheers,
Patrick


patrick123
Veteran


May 19, 2002, 8:21 AM

Post #9 of 35 (28942 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh...one more thing. Since my budget is around S$10k, If i go with my main contractor (only 6k), I will have the extra money to incorporate "The Answer" and may be the "Turbo Cleaner" (protein skimmer like the one DTTK and Stuart have) as well. AngelicAngelicAngelicAngelic

What do you think??


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 19, 2002, 9:38 AM

Post #10 of 35 (28940 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

WaH, $6K very good price! U'd need to find out the prices of all the filter material and pumps and buy all that b4 the contractor finishes the pond so everything will fit together.

The vege filter 1 foot width and 1 1/4 foot deep will do.

Wah, if you can incorporate The Answer and the Turbo Cleaner, by all means!!


HWONG
Veteran

May 19, 2002, 6:43 PM

Post #11 of 35 (28926 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick,

Quiet Sunday, dont mind my intrusion? If you main-con is building your house as well, you should take up on the offer assuming that he agrees to follow all structural and material requirements to your specs. Things like floor slab, formwork (make sure he doesn't count bare earth wall as form work for one side). joint between floor and walls Hdpe pipes, waterproofing etc The rest of what kevin said applies. I feel it is ok even if this is his first pond job as long as the drawings and your self supervision is adequate. My main-con did my pond with details from Hans Ham; with close supervision of course.The worst thing is to have a contractor quitting the job mid-stream bcos he is losing money on the job. You can hardly find another to take over and even then you are at his mercy. Some one you already know reduces that risk. Eric, has indicated that the Answer in Singapore is $2ooo+++ If it works like it claims, you can do with the smaller filter

Goodluck


patrick123
Veteran


May 19, 2002, 8:40 PM

Post #12 of 35 (28920 views)
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Re: [HWONG] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Kev and Hwong,

Thanks for the advise.

Hwong,
Did you actually have your subcon quit half way while doing your pond? Tell us about it. Are you ripping him off or something...hehehe (just kidding).Laugh

I did check "The Answer" in the 9th Koi Exhibition and the smaller unit runs for about S$1800. I guess I can add the "Turbo Cleaner" later on.

For bio filter, I'm just thinking of throwing all my jap mat into the chamber and buy myself a few more bags of biohome....I was told that 1 kg can handle about 3 tons of water (if I remember correctly). BTW, I heard that it is an Australian product. Is it cheaper in Australia, Kev?

Thank,
Patrick


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 20, 2002, 6:23 AM

Post #13 of 35 (28901 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmm, BioHome an Australian Product? Which company? I personally have never used it... and gee, if it's really an Australian product, it's going to be expensive! (like everything else Aussies make 'cos of the Unions! LOL). Whats wrong with just using BioMats? I hear there are knock offs from China that are a fraction of the price..... he he he.


patrick123
Veteran


May 20, 2002, 8:46 AM

Post #14 of 35 (28891 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Kevin,

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I was told that bio mats do not offer as much surface area for bacteria to colonize. We can still use bio mat, but it will require a much larger bio chamber and a lot more bio mat.

I was told that biohome is just like the original siporax that is basically made of highly porus materials and was told that 1 liter of biohome actually contains 5800 sqft of surface area (twice the size of my home). There is a website for bio home: http://www.aqua-bio.com/en/biohome/index.html
It claims that 1 liter is good enough to treat 2 tons of water and even claims that biohome can even remove nitrate.

As for the price, it is not cheap. 1kg is about S$50. About the same price as siporex.

So what is your opinion about the contractors? If you don't mind, drop me an email and we can discuss that offline.

Thanks,
Patrick


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 20, 2002, 9:28 AM

Post #15 of 35 (28888 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Just read their web page.... Wah, the claim is that it removes Nitrates. How it does that I dun know.... (Not chemically I hope.). Anyone used this stuff and can verify their claims?

Gee, with all the small pores in the biohome doesn't it make it pretty much the same as coral? Will it clog up and breed all the wrong bacteria?? Anyone??


dttk
Veteran

May 20, 2002, 10:26 AM

Post #16 of 35 (28881 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes I agree that any submerged media that is not easy to clean by simple flushing may cause anaerobic bacteria to flourish which may not be good. Bio-mats are still the best in terms of function and maintenance as experiences from this part of the world shows. Smile
Always friendly :)


HWONG
Veteran

May 20, 2002, 2:25 PM

Post #17 of 35 (28864 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Mad Eh Patrick, since when have you heard a customer ripping the contractor off? In my case, my contractor under-estimated the work involved but it was part of a major remodelling job. So he did not quit on me..... his loss would have been too much lah. Guess what, He actually wanted to give me a Shiro Utsuri from his own collection which I declined....Its the time to release his retention sum. Shrewd operator. Anyway dont take too long to decide.... budgets are meant to be broken! Nowadays "Hung Cheng Pai" give you contractors a break and your koi dealer also need to sell some kois to you.SlySly


patrick123
Veteran


May 21, 2002, 6:15 AM

Post #18 of 35 (28839 views)
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Re: [HWONG] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hwong,

I agree with you that now is the best time to build a pond due to the bad economy. During good time, the main contractor who built my house would not even entertain such small project.

Well, depending on how good is the Shiro Utsuri your contractor going to give you. It may be worth the retention money. WinkWink You should have checked it out. Smile

Cheers,
Patrick


cwloo
User

May 21, 2002, 12:28 PM

Post #19 of 35 (28811 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

In fact building a new pond is not so expensive if you do your own design , hiring & monitor work.

I know the meterial cost is not very high for a fiber pond. The raw meterial for fiber is very little only .. yet the contractor charge 20+K for a pond .. Some of the contractor is very terrible , I saw before some of their design is like 10 years back from what we discuss in this forum. No bottom drain, poor map layout ...etc .. ever see a filter that small & will stuck only after 1 months ?


patrick123
Veteran


May 21, 2002, 12:42 PM

Post #20 of 35 (28809 views)
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Re: [cwloo] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

cwloo,

I know, not to mention that a lot of them just dump tons of coral chips and the water will stay clear for the first 6 months and then you will see alot of problem after that.

Do you have any good/bad experience on pond building you like to share with us?

Cheers,
Patrick


cwloo
User

May 24, 2002, 7:18 AM

Post #21 of 35 (28751 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick,

I'm lucky that our previous contractor done a good job on the ponds. His design is almost the same as what we discuss here (Bottom drain, venturi, filter Mat ) when we build the first main ponds 8~9 years ago. He even put those plant for us in the filter to take all the nitrate away. It's sad that the Koi grow so fast in our pond and both nitrate & nitrite get out of control 1 year later (which we didn't aware of the problem).

Anyway, back to the topic .. if you can get a house contractor to do the job (which I think is cheaper than asking a special pond builder which usually overcharge) and apply your own design ( + monitor ) to the pond. Will it be better ? The material cost will be cheaper (fiber piece & the paint is not that expensive, so as other material) and you can hv a well design pond.

I'm still thinking some new design for the pond when I buy my own house. I was thinking of multiple water outlet which is controllable by valve so that we can change the flow of water inside the ponds. So you can simulate the flow of river or lake whenever you like it. It's also good for flushing any corner where your normal water flow can't reach. I guess the fish will like it also, who like to stuck in the same design & same place without any changes ?

Also, a overflow drain is planned much like those swimming pool overflow drain on one side of the pond. Pair it with the controllable valve, you can flush away any unwanted thing on the surface of the pond to filter or out of the pond. I have experience with tree leave (those very small one) and hv a hard time cleaning it cause they all floated on the surface of the pond.

That's all for my dream as of now , I still busy with 2 of the pond at home (which my dad build) and he hv the habit of buying new koi ... so keeping all the parameter good is a tough job at home.


(This post was edited by cwloo on May 24, 2002, 7:21 AM)


patrick123
Veteran


Jun 10, 2002, 2:28 PM

Post #22 of 35 (28697 views)
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Re: [dttk] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear All,

Finally, I have the design for my pond. My contractor is going to start work on 17 June 2002. I'm so excited.LaughLaughLaugh

Attached is the final drawings (after consulting Kevkoi many times)Blush. Please take a look and I will really appreciate if you could provide your comments.

Thanks,
Patrick
Attachments: Main Pond.jpg (55.0 KB)
  overflow.jpg (102 KB)
  Piping.jpg (130 KB)
  Top View.jpg (123 KB)
  filter-side view.jpg (78.0 KB)
  Filter.jpg (108 KB)


lifesci.
User

Jun 10, 2002, 4:17 PM

Post #23 of 35 (28693 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Pat
You should be excited.. that is a very nice, well planed pond you have gotten there.
Also your pergola is a nice touch,I want to add one next year to mine to cut down on sunlight.
Can you keep us updated as the work progresses?

Vey niceCool
Roger
Lifesci.


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


Jun 11, 2002, 4:19 AM

Post #24 of 35 (28674 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks good mate.....! Looking forward to see how this pond performs with all the high-tech "Answer" and K1. If it works well, I might consider incorporating them into my indoor pond renovation (deepen and built-in bottom drain filtration with Answer, K1 and Turbocleaner.....) when I can afford it... Wink


johnson lee
Veteran

Jun 11, 2002, 7:58 AM

Post #25 of 35 (28656 views)
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Re: [patrick123] New Pond Design - Thanks to Kevkoi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick

Well, what can I say, this is a fantastic pond! I guess I will be needing Kev's expertise when I embark on my next koi pond.Smile

So you will be using the Answer and K1 filter media? Great, let us know how well the system works, OK? Thanks.

My only question is do you really need your dry sump area to be so deep, 6'? You will need a ladder to climb down there!

Pls post some pics after you ahve completed it. Also, may I ask (if it is OK with you), how much would it cost you to build this pond in S'pore?

Rgds

JohnsonCool

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