Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality: Safe way to bring ph down?

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Safe way to bring ph down?

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ryker
New User

Jun 18, 2001, 10:07 AM

Post #1 of 34 (100059 views)
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Hello all.
Is there a safe way to bring ph down?
One of our members (NLKC) killed all his fish by the improper use or the wrong kind of vinegar.

I've heard that Sea Chem neutral regulator is
a good product to help prevent ph spikes.Has anyone used it and does it work well?

Thanks for your time.

Regards

Mark
Veteran

Jun 18, 2001, 8:40 PM

Post #2 of 34 (99997 views)
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What value of pH is troubling you? and is it a new pond?

Never good to use vinegar of any kind if there are fish in the water.

Agreeable that Sea Chem neutral regulator is
a good product to help prevent ph spikes. Use quite abit during my early days of the hobby. But now I use coral chips and cockel shells to maintan the pH in a fully colonized system.

ryker
New User

Jun 19, 2001, 11:00 AM

Post #3 of 34 (99994 views)
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Hi mark,
Yes...it's a new pond...Ammonia and Nitries are both zero."I've got a full populated filter running on the new pond---taken of another pond."
Ph is 7.6 right now and has been for 3 weeks.I'm just doing my homework for when and if it does spike on me. Smile

I've been told that oyster shells work good as well...I wonder if they will make our hard water even worse?

Thanks for taking the time to answer me.

Matt

Mark
Veteran

Jun 20, 2001, 8:40 AM

Post #4 of 34 (99994 views)
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Hi
Is it a cement/concrete pond?

Hmmp...looking at the those water parameters, fish should be happy swimming in the pond.

Oyster shells are my preferred choice for pH buffering. No concern for hard water.

Good luck.

(This post was edited by Mark Richman on Aug 6, 2002, 9:00 AM)

ryker
New User

Jun 20, 2001, 7:58 PM

Post #5 of 34 (99995 views)
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Hi Mark,
My new pond is 16ft x 9ft...4 ft deep.
60ml epdm.
Does lemon juice or boric acid work well for bringing down ph safely?

Thanks again

Matt

Mark
Veteran

Jun 21, 2001, 4:48 AM

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Hi Matt
60 Mil EPDM is good a synthetic rubber that usually has high flexible stable material characteristic and it should not contribute to high pH.

So what could be the cause of high pH??...hmmmp....??? I am really lost!!!!

ryker
New User

Jun 21, 2001, 12:57 PM

Post #7 of 34 (99995 views)
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Hi Mark,
Sorry your lost...I'm just looking for a safe way to bring ph down IF it spikes....this info I will pass on to members of the club here in town for when they have concerns.
My water is fine...and I hope it stays fine...this is "just incase". Smile

Thanks

Matt

Mark
Veteran

Jun 22, 2001, 9:07 AM

Post #8 of 34 (99995 views)
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Hi Matt
Thanks for your kind word.

I find no better way than to use either one of these:
1. oyster shells
2. cockel shells
3. coral chips.

I would highly recommend that you fill up one chamber with one of these. Chances of pH spikes will be very very unlikely to occur.

Hope this general info helps.

KOIFLA
Novice

Sep 8, 2001, 3:31 PM

Post #9 of 34 (99995 views)
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7.6 SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. WE ARE USE TO OVER 8.5 WHITH ARE WATER. When I started a cement pond the pH was over 9 and the fish seemed OK. I lowered it by using Muratic acid. Cheap. Carfule not to make too big a change in a day. I like our hard 8.0 water. 7.0 would scare me.

denniskweh
User

Sep 9, 2001, 10:11 PM

Post #10 of 34 (99995 views)
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hi
I have a natural alternative way to bring down PH. In this part of the world (Singapore and Malaysia at least), there is an abundant supply of a common type of trees called ketapang in local parlance. These dried ketapang leaves which are found on the roadsides are excellent source of giving nutrients and humic acid. It is said that using a few leaves will bring your PH to 6.5 and ths hi of your kohakus will glisten. Some local farms here used them as a water conditioner.

Many websites are available on the subject of ketapang. Perhaps KOIFLA you can find out the equivalent of the tree in your part of the world.

regards
Dennis

TonyG
User

Sep 10, 2001, 6:12 PM

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Hi dennis

Sorry, mountain tortise, what is this ketapang leave? how does it looks like? possible to post a picture?? How to use, put it directly on the pond or ...

Thanks in advance

TG

denniskweh
User

Sep 12, 2001, 4:29 AM

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hi Tony
Here is a website on ketapang leaves.
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~tskan/leaves.html

Use those dried leaves which have fallen on the ground. Put about 5-6 dried leaves in a pail of water and soak them. The first hour of the soaked water throw them away. Then soak again for 24 hours. The next day, add the solution to your tank till you see the water a tea colour. Don't put too much. Don't worry the solution will not harm your filter or the fishes. Just make sure you thoroughly wash the leaves with running water for a few minutes and soak as instructed above. Of course,please check that your water PH is not acidic (below 7.0) and try this.

Tell me how it works.
regards
Dennis

TonyG
User

Sep 12, 2001, 6:26 AM

Post #13 of 34 (99995 views)
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Hi Dennis

Thanks for the info. At the moment, i don't think i need any but it is a safe way of bring down the PH (all natural). You see, my pond jump from ph 8 to 8.5. During that week, i increases the dosage of baking soda to increase the KH, which is at 6 (itchy hand). Monitoring the ph closely. anyway, i understand that ph 8.5 is ok for the fish and if i'm not wrong, some of the serious hobbyist in Japan keep their pond at this PH right?

However should i used it, will keep this forum posted on the outcome.

Anyway thanks for the information. Hey, this is reason why this forum is fanstastic, everyone put in their effort to help the others in need. Keep up the spirit guys. Cool

Cheers

Tony

JT818
User

Dec 9, 2001, 3:27 PM

Post #14 of 34 (99995 views)
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Hi,

When speaking of using oyster shells to buffer the ph. Do I use fresh oysters or cooked oyster shells(cooked the oyster, ate it and leave behind the shell)?

dttk
Veteran

Dec 9, 2001, 6:39 PM

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Hi, either type is fine as the shell basically remains unchanged. Smile

Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 10, 2001, 2:06 AM

Post #16 of 34 (99993 views)
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hi experts,

just checked my pond water,
ph from 8.0 to 8.6 others zero.

water started to green because 3 days ago, i done total cleaning on all of the chambers...left the mechanical filters dried for 24 hrs..totally forgoten the good bacterias..

at this level of ph...will there be any problem.. advise to reduce the ph safely..
pond @ 2000ltrs

thanks & ragards.

dttk
Veteran

Dec 10, 2001, 5:54 PM

Post #17 of 34 (99995 views)
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Hi Tazul, it would be good to stop feeding for a few days to minimise ammonia excretion by koi. Ammonia is more toxic at such high pH levels. Salt your pond to 0.1% to reduce nitrite toxicity. 2kg rock salt in 2000L of water should give a concentration of 0.1%. Check for ammonia/nitrite daily and do some water change if koi starts to behave abnormally. Good luck. Smile

TonyG
User

Dec 10, 2001, 7:59 PM

Post #18 of 34 (99994 views)
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Hi Tazul

PH 8 ~ 8.5 is ok for kois but have you check on other parameters? If yes, please post those. And if no, please do so and post your results.

As mention by Dr Tan, ammonia is more toxic at high PH and if do not know your other parameters, stop feeding and let your bug colonize again. You will see results when your pond starts to clear up. At the meantime, test your water and if no ammonia is detected, feed a little (2 days once) for heavy feeding will bring up the ammonia level.

Rgds

Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 11, 2001, 2:28 AM

Post #19 of 34 (99993 views)
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Hi dttk & TonyG

Thanks for the advised..have stopped feeding the kois..As requested the water parameters;
ph still 8.6
ammonia < 0.5 ppm
nitrite - 0 ppm
nitrate - 0 mg/l

water is already dark green..cant see the babies..just to confirm the rock salt is known as "garam kasar"???

rgds.

TonyG
User

Dec 11, 2001, 4:46 PM

Post #20 of 34 (99994 views)
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Hi Tazul

Yep, your parameter indicates that your filter has not 'kick-in' yet. It will takes a while for it to fully mature. You may change 20 ~ 30% of your water every 3 days and yes, still no feeding. Maybe you can help to post your parameters every 2 to 3 days.

As for your 'garam kasar' question, i have no idea, maybe Dr tan can enlighten. But why don't you use aquarium salt for this purpose. Is 'garam kasar' and aquarium the same?? Wink

Tony

dttk
Veteran

Dec 11, 2001, 6:24 PM

Post #21 of 34 (99994 views)
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Yup, garam kasar is rock salt or aquarium salt. The frequency of water change would depend on the rate of ammonia buildup. If high levels are detected, more water may be changed more frequently. As Tony mentioned, zero feeding is the best way to minimise this rate. Imagine that it is always better to have clean air all the time even if it means we have to starve alittle, right? Smile

(This post was edited by dttk on Nov 12, 2001, 9:00 AM)

Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 14, 2001, 6:38 AM

Post #22 of 34 (99993 views)
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Hi dttk & Tony G

my water parameter still the same.. still not adding any salt into pond..just came back from 2 days seminar in KL

rgds

TonyG
User

Dec 14, 2001, 4:44 PM

Post #23 of 34 (99994 views)
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Hi Tazul

Is your pond still as green?? During your absence, did anyone cannot resist but feed the kois?? Smile

You see, if your water starts to turn clear, it means your filter is begining to works although you resistered NH4. Change 30 ~ 40% of water and remember to dechlor it. Yes, still no feeding, if really need to, feed a little but do not take any reading at least 6 hours after feeding. If not the reading may not be accurate.

Good luck and please keep posting the progress.

TonyG

Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 16, 2001, 5:02 AM

Post #24 of 34 (99993 views)
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Hi TonyG

Today morning taken another reading..
ph down to 8.2
ammonia, nitrite & nitrate still the same..

water start to clear..and just give them some food before driving back to Tapah, Perak to celebrate hari raya..

will update u later...and another thing i found few of my kois have some black spots on the heads and scales..is it some kind of desease.. cant find in the books.

pls advise on my new problem n will change water and adding salt after raya..

rgds.

Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 20, 2001, 8:19 PM

Post #25 of 34 (99993 views)
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Hi experts,

just came back from raya.. water still dark green ..this morning changed 30% water..dichlor.

bought 2 kg of salt (need advise) b4 adding into pond

rgds

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