Home  


  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: KOI Talk: Members' Pond:
MHLim's TT.

 




Web Services & EcommercePurchase Printer Toner and Ink (Original and Remanufactured) Online  - Antivirus Online





dttk
Veteran

Jul 16, 2003, 7:15 AM

Post #1 of 25 (24721 views)
Shortcut
MHLim's TT. Can't Post

Enjoy! Smile
Always friendly :)
Attachments: twin-towers.jpg (26.3 KB)
  June03koi.jpg (32.5 KB)


TanSL
Koi Kichi


Jul 16, 2003, 8:05 AM

Post #2 of 25 (24708 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

What media is in the towers ?



dttk
Veteran

Jul 16, 2003, 9:46 AM

Post #3 of 25 (24700 views)
Shortcut
Re: [TanSL] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing much. Only 2,500 bioballs. LaughSly
Always friendly :)


Buix2
Novice

Jul 16, 2003, 11:13 AM

Post #4 of 25 (24695 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

why need such an amount of bio balls..

i mean instead f displaying in a place where ppl can see.. Blush

i might substitude bio balls with nilons.. such as those we use to scrob our backs ( nilon nets )

just asking

Buix2


dttk
Veteran

Jul 16, 2003, 3:15 PM

Post #5 of 25 (24673 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Buix2] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Buix2, I think bioballs which are more rigid allows for better air penetration than nylon nets which tend to retain water when damp. Also the higher the TT, the more efficient it is. Smile
Always friendly :)


mhlim
User


Jul 16, 2003, 3:19 PM

Post #6 of 25 (24673 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Buix2] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

No. of bioballs - the more the better. In fact height is important. I would have constructed the TT higher if it was not limited by the height of the roof over the TT. Apart from removing nitrates, we are also adding oxygen to the water when it falls through the TT. From Dr. Tan's photo you can notice that the baskets are well ventilated all round.

The no of bioballs in each column is 2,500 pcs, so the total is 5,000 pcs for the twin TT. I quoted 2,500 pcs for one column so as not to confuse Roger Smile. Since Dttk posted the picture, it is easier to understand. Thanks to Dttk.

The twin TT may not be pleasing to the eyes but we always try to achieve the best conditions for our kois. Anywhere I place it to the side of the house and as far away as possible from the pond. It's not visible from the front of the house.


(This post was edited by mhlim on Jul 16, 2003, 3:32 PM)


andyng
User

Jul 16, 2003, 5:00 PM

Post #7 of 25 (24667 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mhlim] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Waaaaa MHLim you have out done yourself, but I don't think my wife would approve it too just like what Rogermoo said. Mine is about 4 to 5 feet tall and with 3000 bio ball not 300 like I typo in Rogermoo thread. But it cost me an arm where as your is a real bargain.

May I ask if the water tempreture drop after you have install these Twin Tower?

Andy Ng.


mhlim
User


Jul 16, 2003, 6:05 PM

Post #8 of 25 (24661 views)
Shortcut
Re: [andyng] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Andy,

I don't have a thermometer for taking temperature readings of the water. But I do feel the water is cooler than before ( by hand, of course Wink. It's probably due to the pergola which was constructed not long ago.


TanSL
Koi Kichi


Jul 17, 2003, 9:12 AM

Post #9 of 25 (24630 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mhlim] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi mhlim,

Have you tested the nitrate level after installing this twin towers ?? If yes, is the difference significant ? There seems to be saying that TT reduces only ammonia and nitrite, not nitrate.

Rgds


mhlim
User


Jul 17, 2003, 9:35 AM

Post #10 of 25 (24628 views)
Shortcut
Re: [TanSL] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tan SL,

The nitrate reading was around 40 to 50 mg/l before the installation of the twin TT. ( There is another TT with 5,000 bioballs as you have already seen during your last visit to my pond)

The reading that I took on 14/7/03 was 5 mg/l. The twin TT was erected in April this year.

Regards.


Buix2
Novice

Jul 17, 2003, 1:35 PM

Post #11 of 25 (24610 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

ok.. Wink

i do agree that bioballs are good for oxidation(terms for the bacteria to oxidise the amonia and nitrate) because generally bioballs create more or further surface contact between the balls"where the bacteria will grow after cetain period of time" with the water.

Tonguehowever i'm thinking of a cheaper and pleasent looking filter.. which similar to a oxidation pond. As far as i now that oxidation pond works similar with a "TT". In this pond... water is spray and let the water droplets fall unto the concrete surface "also after a period of time with bacteria growth" doing the oxidation process.

i'm suggesting that we mimic the process of the oxidation pond to a water fall process for the pond.. but bare in mind that water should have efficient contact with the surface(rocks,bioballs,concrete,plants).

anyway i'm just suggesting.. Crazy

regads
Buix2


TanSL
Koi Kichi


Jul 17, 2003, 3:06 PM

Post #12 of 25 (24604 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mhlim] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the info.


dttk
Veteran

Jul 17, 2003, 3:11 PM

Post #13 of 25 (24603 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Buix2] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, the wet surfaces of a waterfall where a thin film of water continuously flows on does act like a TT. However not all waterfalls are designed for this purpose. In such cases, a TT (of bioballs or lava rock) is constructed for this purpose. The choice of media is personal preference and also subjected to availability and cost. Smile
Always friendly :)


rogermoo
Koi Kichi

Jul 17, 2003, 5:15 PM

Post #14 of 25 (24598 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi dttk,
Last night while at one of my wife's friend's father grand birthday (he celebrated his 80yh birthday) dinner, I sat next to a guy by the name of Mr Choong and he is into water treatment and management and consultantcy business and our common subject was koi simply becos he wanted to set up a pond in his house.

We talked on the pond set-up and about the filtration system setup. I asked him how he manages the sewage and oil-palm mills discharge water and he told me the final result is so good that even taliapas can grow in it.

And he told me he only use one type of material (in sheet-roll form) with bigger holes for good bacteria trappings and these materials are able to do the job completely... and he is going to use it in his pond! He told me it's patented and is imported from Germany... but unfortunately I did not ask him for the name. Very incredible indeed becos that's how he treat sewage discharge and oil-palm mills discharge. And to rid anmonia, he use a product derived from palm oil! And he understands how the nitrogen cycle works very well and he told me that is good enough to do the job for the koi pond; no other medias are needed!, not even TT!

Hopefully he will call me when he goes about constructing his pond. I have given him my name-card but forgotten to take down his number cos during the whole nite dinner, our conversation is only on koi and that makes me forget about other things, even asking for his tel. number.

Rogermoo7


rogermoo
Koi Kichi

Jul 17, 2003, 9:04 PM

Post #15 of 25 (24592 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi dttk,

I just read in the KOI CARP, UK June 2003 issue that trickle towers are unlikely to lower nitrates and it is answered by a koi expert, under Questions & Answer, Koi Carp page 92.

His arguement is that nitrate reduction by bacteria occurs in oxygen free environments and trickle towers are by defination an oxygen rich environment - which is ideal for speedy ammonia and nitrite oxidation. He said vegetable filter works better.

So have you got to say about this? Is it that the bacteria works on the ammonia and nitrite, thus minimising the concentration of nitrate in the water. Please advise. TQ.

Rogermoo7, the local koibond.


chong
User

Jul 18, 2003, 3:23 AM

Post #16 of 25 (24587 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rogermoo] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ,

fish waste => ammonia => nitrite => nitrate .

So , when nitrite is eliminated thru TT , no more chance for it to be converted to nitrate . Result : Nitrate reduced .

Smile


mattloui
User

Jul 18, 2003, 4:12 AM

Post #17 of 25 (24586 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rogermoo] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Now now roger, you touch on something which seems controversial. Before we all go into "fierce" discussion on this subject, i think we should remind ourselves that as long as nitrates are reduced in our tank/ponds, we rather leave the chemist and geologist to handle the detailing.

if you must know more, then i suggest you go to Yahoo and type "At long last i have built a TT" . here you will find quite a lengthy discussion on the by-product of TT.

To extract some info from the above website

" the "normal" desciption of the nitrification process is in gross error. The end result products of nitrification, and denitrification, by biofiltration are nitrous oxide, N2O, and nitric oxide, NO. Mostly and usually the end product is nitrous oxide. Nitrous oxide is actually 50% heavier than air, so does not tend to rise in an air column, you are simply mistaken about that. So to get it out of a trickle tower, you must either have open sides of the tower, or have good air exchange of the trickle tower with the surrounding air.

Both nitric oxide and nitrous oxide can dissolve in the water to react and make more nitrates and nitrites, if they are not degassed soon after they are produced in biofilms. That is the entire principle of trickle tower filters, namely better degassing to remove these end products of biofiltration before they dissolve in the water to make more nitrites and nitrates.

You probably won't believe me, but I have read approximately 1250 published papers on the biofiltration process in the scientific literature. They sometimes openly laugh in the papers about the drivel written in books and on the internet about biofiltration. It can be a deep subject when studied for a while.

The main point is that I always advise folks with solid wall trickle towers never to use distribution plates, to use spray bars instead. Because with a distribution plate, and a solid wall, the nitrous oxide and nitric oxide can't get out, and the filter is no better than submerged media, where the nitrogen goes around and around in a big cycle, sometimes getting out a bit in waterfalls where it degasses a bit.

I hope this helps some with your misconceptions. I do not expect your wierd weed to disappear with your TT construction, but hope you prove me wrong.

Roddy Conrad
Charleston, WV
"Have a pleasant day"


YES-HAVE A PLEASANT DAY ROGER. NOW WE KNOW WHY MHLIM'S VEGETABLE BASKET WORK WELL AS A TT.


CHEERS


dttk
Veteran

Jul 18, 2003, 5:13 AM

Post #18 of 25 (24580 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rogermoo] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Roger, that's exactly how nitrates are "removed". In fact it hasn't got much of a chance to be formed. Doc Conrad did discuss abt this process in the forum some time ago. The good bacteria in the biofilm in the TT acts on nitrites, converting it into nitrous oxide and nitric oxide gas. These gasses needs to be "blown away" before they react with water to form nitrites again and nitrates. So in actual fact there is no chance for nitrates to be formed if aeration of TT is good. That's why, we stress so much on the need for good aeration in any TT. Once nitrates are formed, the best way to remove them would be by the plants in the veg filter. As for water that is good enough for Tilapias, I have some reservations as Tilapias are known to be very hardy and can thrive in almost any type of bad water conditions. Thanks for sharing this interesting info and let's hope to hear some positive news from him. Smile

Matt and Chong, kudos to you guys for highlighting this process which I think not many are aware of. Wink Thanks again!Smile
Always friendly :)

(This post was edited by dttk on Jul 18, 2003, 6:02 AM)


TanSL
Koi Kichi


Jul 18, 2003, 10:21 AM

Post #19 of 25 (24559 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mattloui] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Matt & Doc,

Thanks for the details. Certainly clears the air. I was like Mr Bond, gotten confused with the same article, that's why I ask mhlim the question.

Cheers


rogermoo
Koi Kichi

Jul 18, 2003, 11:40 AM

Post #20 of 25 (24555 views)
Shortcut
Re: [TanSL] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi dttk, mattloui & TanSL,

Now I understand and it's now only the so-called 'expert' of KoiCarp,UK who is confused. I remembered I read Doc Conrad's posting in this forum but just so happened I read that Questions & Answers reply to a question that was posted in KoiCarp,UK.

Anyway, I am into TT and today I just drop by at Atari to enquire about the TC. All in all, pump + skimmer + filter costed RM1,800/=. Got to check elsewhere for comparison before commiting on this, and as for TT - hopefully my DIY will not make my home minister yell "What! You think my house is a pasar malam, everything also got!!!"

Cheers.
Rogermoo7, Koibond


douglezzz
User

Jul 18, 2003, 5:09 PM

Post #21 of 25 (24541 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rogermoo] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmmmmm ? What is the botanical name of the palm ? I have these on the farm.. African (Elaeis guineensis)

" And he told me he only use one type of material (in sheet-roll form) with bigger holes for good bacteria trappings and these materials are able to do the job completely... and he is going to use it in his pond! He told me it's patented and is imported from Germany... but unfortunately I did not ask him for the name. Very incredible indeed becos that's how he treat sewage discharge and oil-palm mills discharge. And to rid anmonia, he use a product derived from palm oil! And he understands how the nitrogen cycle works very well and he told me that is good enough to do the job for the koi pond; no other medias are needed!, not even TT! "


Buix2
Novice

Jul 18, 2003, 7:04 PM

Post #22 of 25 (24537 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

i agree.. in the part of the surfacing..

anyway.. i plan to go for some further reading on this water waste process.. and i will come updatae you ppl what i now.. hehe..

regards
Buix2


andyng
User

Jul 19, 2003, 4:54 PM

Post #23 of 25 (24502 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dttk] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hi, the wet surfaces of a waterfall where a thin film of water continuously flows on does act like a TT. However not all waterfalls are designed for this purpose. In such cases, a TT (of bioballs or lava rock) is constructed for this purpose. The choice of media is personal preference and also subjected to availability and cost. Smile



Doc,

I was at a friends place sometime back and the KOIs at his place was just perfect and pond is grossly overstock about 70 to 80 in this pond water 100% CRYSTAL CLEAR. So the filter system and maintainence of the pond must have been done correctly. While I was there "then" I notice that his waterfall was weird because the water was trickling down so slowly and algae was growing on the surface. Only now did it hit me that it was design for that purpose.

Check this out.



So I think it would work just look at the surface area. I would have done this if I were to do my pond again. From my limited experience the dark background against the waterfall would help a lot with the viewing of the KOI less reflection.

Andy Ng.


dttk
Veteran

Jul 20, 2003, 4:22 AM

Post #24 of 25 (24491 views)
Shortcut
Re: [andyng] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post

Andy Smile, yes, indeed a very unique waterfall...Shocked. A good water of aerating the water and removing the gasses. Sly
Always friendly :)


andyng
User

Jul 20, 2003, 7:54 AM

Post #25 of 25 (24485 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mhlim] MHLim's TT. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hi Tan SL,

The nitrate reading was around 40 to 50 mg/l before the installation of the twin TT. ( There is another TT with 5,000 bioballs as you have already seen during your last visit to my pond)

The reading that I took on 14/7/03 was 5 mg/l. The twin TT was erected in April this year.

Regards.



MHLim,

I took a reading this morning and found the nitrate level to be about 25 mg/l much higher that your reading. Previously the nitrate level use to be in the 50s. Looks like it had done its job but may not be as effective as your "twin tower". As my TT was constructed using PVC pipe so the areation might not be as effective as the fruits basket. Looks like I might have to look into this in the near future like they say "back to the drawing board". Overall I am very glad with the results.

Well I am off to the pond for a nice hot OCHA.......

Cheers or slurppppppppp

Andy Ng

 
 



Search for (options) Back to Koi.com.my Main Page

  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement     
Copyright 2001~ 2002 Hileytech Sdn Bhd , All Rights Reserved.  
No part of the forum postings can be copied without prior permission from Hileytech Sdn Bhd and the Author of the Posting.
For comments and Suggestion, Please contact the Webmaster at koi@hileytech.com