Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System: How to start KEEPING GOOD BACTERIA in a new Aquarium/FG Tank/Pond?

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How to start KEEPING GOOD BACTERIA in a new Aquarium/FG Tank/Pond?

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newgen
User

Apr 22, 2002, 2:00 PM

Post #1 of 27 (80718 views)
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How to start KEEPING GOOD BACTERIA in a new Aquarium/FG Tank/Pond?	Can't Post

Hi everyone! Cool

Now, i'm gonna bring up a new trouble for you all, sorry about it~ Unsure

OK!

now, HOW TO START KEEPING GOOD BACTERIA IN A NEW AQUARIUM/FG TANK/POND? Crazy

What do we have to use? is it Bio Ring(maid by china i think, i mean, sand? Crazy

) or those plactic Bio Balls? Crazy

and what chemicals do i need to use to start keeping good bacteria? Where to buy? and What's the name and the Brand of the kit? Laugh

Hope someone can teach me how! Smile

Thanks!

koihaku
User

Apr 22, 2002, 3:57 PM

Post #2 of 27 (80669 views)
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Re: [newgen] How to start KEEPING GOOD BACTERIA in a new Aquarium/FG Tank/Pond? [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi newgen

the best are obviously bioballs, but they cost a lot, rocks or sand havent the surface area, so even though good bacteria will breed on them, you wont get very good biological filtration. the other option, is hair curlers, theese have a large surface area. U could also use SJM (synthetic japaneese matting), as this has a large surface area and is made primarily for the breeding of good bacteria. U can also use biorings.

Concerning the bacteria solutions, i wouldnt know, i have never used it but u can buy bottles of it in most aquarium shops. Othervise the bacteria will start to grow by itself in about two weeks, so if in no need, u dont have to use the solution.

Jon

doitsu
Novice

Apr 22, 2002, 7:53 PM

Post #3 of 27 (80658 views)
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Re: [newgen] How to start KEEPING GOOD BACTERIA in a new Aquarium/FG Tank/Pond? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

I'm not to sure about bioballs being the best... koihaku... but what I've learnt is the Japanese matting (SJM) is very suitable. I guess you can use biorings... Well I recommend those two. You could use Biozyme for bacteria cultivation.

Don't get too upset with your initial ammonia reading. For a month, I've got ammonia readings of 0.25 to 1.25. However, coming into the 5th week now, the reading is zero.

newgen
User

Apr 22, 2002, 8:00 PM

Post #4 of 27 (80657 views)
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Re: [doitsu] How to start KEEPING GOOD BACTERIA in a new Aquarium/FG Tank/Pond? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Doitsu!

What is Biozyme? where to get it? in what form? and how much? whats the name of the brand and name of the product?

and how to start keeping them? how i need to start them?

Thanks!

doitsu
Novice

Apr 22, 2002, 8:46 PM

Post #5 of 27 (80655 views)
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Re: [newgen] How to start KEEPING GOOD BACTERIA in a new Aquarium/FG Tank/Pond? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi new gen,

Most koi dealers and experience keepers I talked to encourage the use of this product. However, I just remebered that the labeled said 'For Pond Use Only'. But Is till think it's all right if you want to cultivate bacteria.
(What do the rest of the Gurus think?)

Just tell the dealer you want Biozyme Formula 100 and it comes in this green bottle. It's quite famous and I guarantee you will have no problem finding it. Instructions are there. Should cost RM 65 to 73.

TonyG
User

Apr 23, 2002, 4:00 AM

Post #6 of 27 (80646 views)
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Re: [newgen] How to start KEEPING GOOD BACTERIA in a new Aquarium/FG Tank/Pond? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Newgen

What type of filter are you referring to, wet/dry type or submerge (wet) type. Bio-ball, experience from the members here are more effective for wet/dry filter. As for wet filter, filter mat is to me the most economical and effective media. In fact those green scrubs that you used to wash your dishes can also be used.

The cheapest and best method to get and breed good bugs is to 'borrow' bugs from someone else filter. What you need to do is to just get a piece of filter media from that pond and put it into you bio-filter. With the nitrogen cycle in your pond, the bug will breed in 1 ~ 2 weeks time.

My 2 cents worth of thoughts Smile

Tony

KevKoi
Koi Kichi

Apr 23, 2002, 8:27 AM

Post #7 of 27 (80637 views)
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Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Agreed.

Biozyme is really so expensive to buy and I'm not convinced that it does the cycling of the filter faster than borrowed media from another tank/pond filter. Just be cautious and not introduce bad bugs into your new filter from the borrowed media..... Get it from a safe source. (A friend who hasn't had a disease outbreak in the last 6 months would be good I reckon.)

Once your filter is matured (ie ammonia readings 0, Nitrite readings 0), your population of good bacteria will keep itself unless you disrupt 'em by adding medication or cleaning your filter media too throughly.

Gee John, why'd you wanna know 'how to start keeping good bacteria'? I thought u already had an aquarium running for quite a while. The filter in that aquarium should already be colonised by these 'good bacteria' (nitrifying bacteria.). U don't have to add anything, these nitrifying bacteria are everywhere and will colonise your filter naturally if you have fish in your tank.(becos your fish poop and this poop turns to Ammonia and these good bacteria use the Ammonia as food and give off Nitrite. The Nitrite in turn is used by another strain of good bacteria as food and the waste product of that is Nitrate. Nitrate is basically plant fertiliser, and plants take that up and grow bigger and bigger.... and give out Oxygen. Where there are no higher plants, algae takes over and that's when we get an algae bloom. Algae in the water isn't necessarily bad water, the fish don't have a problem with it, it's just that we can't see the fish. And because we koi keepers don't like algae, we find ways to get rid of the Nitrate, either with a Vege filter or a Trickle tower filter. WaH, I just gave a whole long lecture about the Nitrogen Cycle. Hope you understand what I was rambling on about John. Wink

)

kev

SMW1
Veteran

Apr 23, 2002, 9:29 AM

Post #8 of 27 (80634 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kevkoi,

I think you have done a very good job of explaining the cycle.

I'm impressed. Not allot of people know exactly how Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate are in our ponds.

And even less people know how to get rid of them.

Good job, keep it up.

Stuart

johnson lee
Veteran

Apr 23, 2002, 9:34 AM

Post #9 of 27 (80631 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Stuart

Agree with your opinion on Kevkoi's explanation of the nitrogen cycle. I am impressed! Cool

Simple and easy to understand. Keep it up, Kevin! Cool

Johnson

newgen
User

Apr 23, 2002, 11:12 AM

Post #10 of 27 (80627 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Kev!

Oh geez....i think you're a borned genius! my god! never had such a good answer before!
oh ya...anyway, i just wondering how to start all over again when i wash my filter completely~ now my kois poops alot, so i change 30 to 50% water every week and i wash 1 of my filter every 5 to 7 days 1 time. Another filter is the Box-filter, i'm worried that my good bugs will be killed as my kois poops alot now...because i bought a new packet of koi food for them and they love it, so i feed them 3 to 5 times a day in a small quantity. i scared the ammonia level will go up like the GENTING SPACE SHOT ekekeke...boom!

i think i really have to go and get the ammonia test kit when i get my poket money next month(which test kit is the MOST IMPORTENT????)! geez! i'm very worried right now! never before! maybe i love my kois much more after joining this club~ thanks whoever and whatever(as we don't know there are really gods?)!!!!

Thanks!

John

johnson lee
Veteran

Apr 23, 2002, 11:29 AM

Post #11 of 27 (80625 views)
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Re: [newgen] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi John

Whenever you want to clean your filter, always bear in mind, never never ever use tap water. Otherwise, you will kill all the good bugs in the filter! Crazy

Use water from your pond/aquarium to wash the filter media.

You need not change your water so often unless your filter has not been established yet! Let me explain a little about the filter media (I am talking in the context of a pond filter):

1. I wash the heavy brushes every week or every fortnight (depending on how much debris!). This I wash with tap water because I want it as clean as possible (some may disagree with me)

2. As for the Japanese matting, I will alternate washing those from the 2nd and 3rd chambers once every 3-6 months. This I flush lightly with pond water just to remove the accumulated dirt

3. Cockles are placed in nets, so I will wash them once every 1-2 months with pond water only just to remove any dirt or residue

4. I hardly wash the trickle tower because the only thing that is dirty are the trays that holds the bio-balls.

Hope this helps, John.

Rgds

Johnson Cool

newgen
User

Apr 23, 2002, 11:46 AM

Post #12 of 27 (80624 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Johnson!
Thanks! i think i'll have to think about what you told me! Cool

and i wanna ask a stupid question Johnson...what is Cockles??? ekeke.....i have wonder that for a long time!

Hope you can tell me or show some pictures of it!
Thanks!

John

SMW1
Veteran

Apr 23, 2002, 1:38 PM

Post #13 of 27 (80620 views)
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Re: [newgen] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

Cockle are sea shells, like Oyster shells. Theses along with coral chips help to buffer the PH.

Stuart

KevKoi
Koi Kichi

Apr 23, 2002, 4:52 PM

Post #14 of 27 (80610 views)
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Re: [newgen] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

AiYOH! Cockles are 'si ham'.... the yummy bloody shell fish in 'Char Koay Teow'. Laugh

newgen
User

Apr 23, 2002, 5:09 PM

Post #15 of 27 (80608 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my god!@@@@

say earlier mah!!!!!!
Blush

!!!!!!!!!!
ahahah!
thanks!!!!!!

Thanks!!!!!!
Thanks!!!!!!!

johnson lee
Veteran

Apr 24, 2002, 5:35 AM

Post #16 of 27 (80592 views)
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Re: [newgen] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Newgen

So, you know now what cockles are right?! I get mine from my 'char kuey teow' seller who is a good friend. He gets them by the gunny sack for me! Yucks! The stench!! Crazy

Make sure you wash it thoroughly before putting into the filter!

Rgds

Johnson

newgen
User

Apr 24, 2002, 6:28 AM

Post #17 of 27 (80589 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Johnson!

I AGREE!!! Tongue

akakaka....me might keep our babies(koi) out from Hepetitis A or B! or C? ekekeke

and some other bad bad bacteria too~

Cool

How much you get them for?

maybe i'll need to get some from you in the future! Tongue

John

(This post was edited by newgen on Apr 24, 2002, 6:55 AM)

johnson lee
Veteran

Apr 24, 2002, 6:33 AM

Post #18 of 27 (80588 views)
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Re: [newgen] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi newgen

I get the cockles for free! Smile

Why don't you ask your kuey teow seller and he might just be kind enough to help you.

Johnson

newgen
User

Apr 24, 2002, 7:21 AM

Post #19 of 27 (80586 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi!
Anyone knows where to get plants for the pond or vege filter??!?!?!

pls tell me!
i need them~!

Shocked

Thanks!

John

KevKoi
Koi Kichi

Apr 24, 2002, 5:56 PM

Post #20 of 27 (80573 views)
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Re: [newgen] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gee, I clear out water plants periodically (about every 6 months one major clean out) from my waterways. Maybe next time when I'm around and we do maintenence on the plants I'll save some for you.

What are u interested in? What u intend to use it for? I've everything from the common 'money plant', 'pengaga', Yam, miniature pappyrus, madagascan giant pappyrus, water lilies, lotus, water lettuce, water hycinth, Amazon swords, and whole lot more I can't even name.

Gee, come to think of it, next time I want to throw out all these plants I'll ask the koi forum first. Wink

kev.

newgen
User

Apr 24, 2002, 6:26 PM

Post #21 of 27 (80572 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Erm...Kev! i need something that can put IN water, can live very long, can produce Oxygen, lover ammonia level, can be eaten by the kois when i didn't feed them(when i'm not in) and can give some shade for the kois during day time~

Thanks!

John

SMW1
Veteran

Apr 24, 2002, 7:01 PM

Post #22 of 27 (80570 views)
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Re: [newgen] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi John,

I'm afraid Plants will not lower your ammonia level. However they will lower your nitrate levels. See the post "The perfect Filter" in this forum for information on how it all works. Lillys will give your koi shade.

Kois will not usually eat plants. However they do a very good job at digging them out of the pots to get to the insect in the soil. Over the last two days where the weather is getting warmer I have come home to find a lilly floating on the surface, not a lilly pad, a whole plant Crazy

. Twice in two days this ha happened. I only put then in about a week ago, and I used big pebbles too. Looks like my koi's will have to go without plants in the pond.

Stuart

cwloo
User

Apr 25, 2002, 11:04 AM

Post #23 of 27 (80556 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, I think the best choice now is still Bio balls. In fact, they are not as expensive as what you all thinking. I got mine for RM35 a pack (300 bio balls inside) from Cheras Aquarium. I put 300 each on 2 x 6" PVC pipe (4ft high) and use a pump to pump the water from filter to it. After 4 days the nitrite drop to 0 (fr 3mg/l) and I believe the nitrate drop also. The pond is very new cause I re-wash the whole pond one month ago thus not many good bacterial in the pond yet. I'm not sure whether it is the bio balls that help grow the good bacterial but I'm quite certain that nitrite/nitrate drop and I didn't put in extra thing within that 4 days.

The only thing to note is to have a slow flow rate for the TT else you will not see the effect. My previos testing is only one 6" PVC pipe with the same pump and the water flow rate is just too high for the TT effect.

KevKoi
Koi Kichi

Apr 25, 2002, 1:41 PM

Post #24 of 27 (80550 views)
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Re: [newgen] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Erm John, as Stuart has just said, plants won't lower your Ammonia. Plants in the koi pond, or aquarium is asking for alot of trouble. Firstly, kois do eat the plants (and in an aquarium, they'll tear up your plants faster than they can regrow.). Secondly, plants need alot of light to grow well. If you're intending on keeping the plants in an indoor aquarium for kois, I suggest you forget about it. There's not enough light, the plants will just die and rot and add more Ammonia to your already over burdened system.

Just concentrate on the conventional filters, do weekly water changes and feed your kois well. They won't starve when you occasionally forget to feed them. Fasting the kois once in a while is actually supposed to be good practice.

newgen
User

Apr 25, 2002, 3:10 PM

Post #25 of 27 (80548 views)
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Re: [newgen] Bacteria, bacteria, bacteria and the nitrogen cycle. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi everyone!

Sorry about the mistake!
what i mean was lover down the nitrite level~ sorry!
ekeke and currently.....

my aquarium is outdoor one...direct to the sunlight on morning and afternoon till evening~

I've put some plant into the aquarium...i'll see the result soon and i'll let u all know~ Cool

And just bought some Testing Papers, can't get those Testing Drops...maybe later!
i got all the testing papers(NO3, NO2, pH, hardenest of water, alkoline level) for RM33! only have 6 papers for each the test kit Unimpressed

Gonna have to get the Testing kits later Mad

!

John

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