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DIY a Chiller

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patrick123
Koi Kichi

Apr 20, 2003, 4:26 PM

Post #1 of 74 (5998 views)
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DIY a Chiller	Can't Post

Any one has idea how to DIY a chiller? My pond is outdoor and the temperature is around 29-31 degrees....too hot for koi and I start to feel that the color of hi has been restricted.

Has anyone built a DIY chiller using air-con or any compressor?

Thanks,
Patrick

KevKoi
Member

Apr 20, 2003, 5:50 PM

Post #2 of 74 (5989 views)
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Re: [patrick123] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Wow Patrick, don't start blowing things up around the house ok? ;) Besides, it'll will be expensive (electricity wise) to operate a chiller 24/7. Plus what about thermostatic control? How's that going to be achieved?

Wow... I think it's a big project. Marine chillers would be too small for ponds I guess.

(This post was edited by KevKoi on Apr 21, 2003, 4:52 AM)

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Apr 20, 2003, 10:56 PM

Post #3 of 74 (5981 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Kevin, anything for my koi...hehehehe

I was thinking to lower the temperature from 30 degrees to say 26-28....for my 10 ton pond, it should not consume too much electricity. I can imagine how expensive it will be for your 50-60 ton pond.

Just wanted to know if anyone has tried it or whether any dealer to sell chiller....also, what is the experience in term of electricity bill.

Thanks,
Patrick

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 29, 2003, 6:41 PM

Post #4 of 74 (5938 views)
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Re: [patrick123] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Here is an idea I have seen used in a comercial facility. (but on a huge scale using a cold room)

Get a fridge. cut two holes in the side of it and fill it will 40mm pvc flex. use a pump with a tap to control the amount of pond water flowing into the fridge and hence the temprature. Simple, cheap, wont kill you and it works.

Hope this helps

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Apr 29, 2003, 6:54 PM

Post #5 of 74 (5936 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Aussie Koi,

Good idea....just wonder how to control the temperature? If it gets too cold and the koi will be frozen..hehehe

Also, flexible pvc hose may not be a very good conductor and hence a lot of energy wasted right? I think the best is still metal tube...but afraid of corosion.

Cheers,
Patrick

HWONG
Koi Addict

Apr 29, 2003, 10:11 PM

Post #6 of 74 (5933 views)
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Re: [patrick123] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Patrick, the most sensible idea to lower temp is to install a momotaro baki shower type contraption. The concept is equivalent to a cooling tower for airconditioners. It may not look nice but definitely works. Your operating cost is electricity for the pump and water thru evapouration.

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 29, 2003, 10:38 PM

Post #7 of 74 (5930 views)
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Re: [patrick123] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Patrick

You control the temprature by controling the amount of water flowing though the fridge. Use a tap or even a three way valve. What does not go though the fride can bypass straight back into the pond. Yes you can use metal (NOTCOPPER PIPE) but is much more expensive. I saw it done with PVC Flex pipe very similar to the pipe swimming pool owners use to connect to their pool cleaners (rolls are not expensive) more pipe in th fridge the better.

If you also wanted an o3 system this would be a perfect opportunity. A lot of people do not understand how to make o3 (ozone) effective. It must have max water contact and therefor would be perfect to connect before the fridge chiller.

Dont ask me how you try and hide the fridge in your landscaping though! Your on your own there!

Regards

Aussie Koi

Are you back home now?

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

newboy
Koi Lover

Apr 30, 2003, 1:02 AM

Post #8 of 74 (5927 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

can anybody help need to find a website that sells fittings bulkheads etc etc any help would be greatful Smile

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 30, 2003, 5:26 AM

Post #9 of 74 (5923 views)
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Re: [newboy] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just go to a large hardware store. If not type "Bulkhead Fitttings" into google - a hundred pages pop up.

What country are your from?

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

newboy
Koi Lover

Apr 30, 2003, 5:28 AM

Post #10 of 74 (5922 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

im from the uk Smile

koifun
Koi Kichi

Apr 30, 2003, 9:08 AM

Post #11 of 74 (5917 views)
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Re: [patrick123] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, Patrick and Aussie koi

The idea is good no doubt but it may be unsightly to run those piping and the presence of a fridge in the garden.Having a fridge in the outdoor environment may not be suitable due to corrsion, weathering and waterproofing problem. A indoor pond may be more suitable instead.

With all the trouble u might as well buy a cooler meant for pond.

CHeers.

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 30, 2003, 11:51 AM

Post #12 of 74 (5912 views)
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Re: [koifun] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Why one earth would you need a chiller in the UK????????????

Do not forget the large Jap mud pond get a decent sort of summer with high temps. They are deep though with a good volume of water.

What temps are you getting?

I though you livied in a desert or something! Africa or the middle east perhaps.

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

cwnchong
Member

Apr 30, 2003, 11:59 AM

Post #13 of 74 (5911 views)
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Re: [koifun] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi everybody here,

Just for us to ponder a little more over this topic. Unsure

A split aircon unit may have a slight advantage over the fridge. If a split aircon unit is used:

- the outdoor/compressor unit can be placed away like any other home unit or hide away somewhere suitable.

-the indoor/chiller part of the assy can be stripped off its housing and blower assy.

- this reworked chiller unit may be able to dipped into the last filter chamber for the purpose (to cool the returning pond water) Cool

Corrosion prevention may be done by using a conductive & corrosion resistant container to conceal the bare chiller from pond water contact.

-the temperature can be adjusted via the remote control unit like the aircon operation.

-the operating cost may be lower than those used in homes. This is because the temp in the pond water is more constant than room temperature & moreover, fish do not produce heat like human do. In Sing or M'sia. we usually use our aircon to bring down the temp from 32 to around 24C i.e. a different of 8 degree. For patrick's pond bringing down the temp to 28C should be a great achievement. Maintaining the temp at 28C is therefore cheaper than maintaining at 24C.

-the blow-fan & its swing mechanism are not required thus again save more energy.

To think of it, this may be the solution for Patrick. Split aircon unit can be quite affordable today. A new 1 horse-powered split unit aircon can be as cheap as RM800/ and the electricity bill? hmmmm depend on its operator. For Patrick its peanuts Wink

. Further more the unit does not have to operate everyday or may only use in the hot day. The themostat can also shut off the compressor once the selected temp is achieved.

Fridge may be able to do the work & a little cheaper than aircond, but the cooling veins in the fridge usually spread around the body of the fridge and can not be easily dismantle.

If anyone dare try it, get an old or second hand unit. In case it fails the damage may not be too bad, but if it is successful you just have to tell us.

Cheers Crazy

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 30, 2003, 12:31 PM

Post #14 of 74 (5910 views)
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Re: [cwnchong] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

DANGER WILL ROBINSON !!!!!!!!

Good in therory Cwnchong except for a couple of minor details.

1. Copper pipes in and connecting the chiller unit. Copper will snuff out Koi really quick. Copper is deadly in low concentrations. If the pipes are not titanium they will rust and you could die also. This forum is big on salt.

2. You cannot seperate the head from the base unit for long distances or the unit does not function well. I have just built a house with a 6mtr seperation and the thing does not perform to specifications.

3. Never mess with 240 volts (mains power) and the head needs its own power supply. Then again you could be correct in saying this could be used for the fan and swing mechanism.

Using your idea of a plastic box around the coils might work. Perhaps you could remove the thermostat to the water rather than the new chiller box so the unit does not cut out (the waterproofing box will cool down very quickly due to its size). I think they are copper again though. Perhaps this could work CWN you might be onto something if you can fix the above.

Hot water will rise in a pond if you break the surface of the water whilst pumping air into the same body of water this will reduce the temp a couple of degrees. Perhaps you could super chill the air from your air conditioner some how. That would be safer but much less efficent.

Keep on thinking!

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

koifun
Koi Kichi

Apr 30, 2003, 12:50 PM

Post #15 of 74 (5908 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Aussie kio

I think u have misundertood me being from Britian. Most of us who are concerned about temperature are from South East Asia where the temperature is averaging about 33'C throughout the year.

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 30, 2003, 12:55 PM

Post #16 of 74 (5906 views)
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Re: [koifun] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

My Bad. Its newboy from the uk.

I have never seen chillers in Japan either though.

I am from Queensland Australia and my Koi seem fine water temp is average 30 C.

What is yours and Patricks?

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

cwnchong
Member

Apr 30, 2003, 4:50 PM

Post #17 of 74 (5897 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ak,

Thank you for your quick response & some pointers on some minor details. You must have perceived my last suggestion as a different thing. My suggestion was about something a little better (or may not) than the earlier brilliant suggestion to use a FRIDGE as a pond chiller.

I am sorry if it was too technical & made my point difficult to understand. I wish this time I can make my point simpler. Otherwise it defeats the purpose & objective of this forum.

The indoor unit or the chiller unit DOES NOT require power to compress the gas within its veins when the blower & swing mechanism is not required (I assume you know how the system works). Therefore there WILL NOT be any question on the danger to any power leak in the chiller unit even is submerged.

I fully agreed with your perception that TITANIUM is a great metal. Titanium may have the quality to with stand extreme elevated temperatures & non-magnetic high strength properties & its strength-to-weight ratio is rated second to none, but unfortunately is not a good thermal conductive material. Therefore it is not suitable for air conditioner application.

Although I have not yet suggest any suitable material to be used to house the chiller, there are many more suitable material that can be chosen from for this application. You may have a few in mind already. Coupled with your koi keeping experience, a good solution is not impossible.

In Sing & M'sia the outdoor compressor can be fitted as far as 3 meter from the indoor unit without affecting efficiency too much. The drop in efficiency varies depending on the length & the insulation used on the transfer pipe not because it is used for the pond.

In Australia, the aircon unit may be different, I can't talk much about it, but definitely the aircon we have here is cheap & more or less similar to a FRIDGE.

The danger & the condition about the exposure to salt & chemical in the pond is the same whether a fridge or an aircon is use.

I hope you get what I meant.

Have a good day

KevKoi
Member

Apr 30, 2003, 7:11 PM

Post #18 of 74 (5894 views)
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Re: [patrick123] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Patrick, go get yourself a pond chiller lah... no need so 'mah fan' converting fridge or aircons into chillers.... Tongue

Another way of cooling the pond (without extensive use of power and 'advance technology' would be to build a tall trickle tower exposed to the air.). Like that momotaro bacteria tower thing..... Then you can kill 2 birds with one stone, cool the pond and increase bio-filtration.

I see that the Momotaro TT thing has gained some popularity in Malaysia.... Zen Koi in Penang has a few on their big pond and Cheras Aquarium also has a couple of those big things on their big ponds.

Smile

koifun
Koi Kichi

Apr 30, 2003, 7:26 PM

Post #19 of 74 (5893 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

In singapore, the average water temp is around 30 - 31'C.

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Apr 30, 2003, 9:35 PM

Post #20 of 74 (5887 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Guys,

Sorry I was a little busy these few days...have not been able to respond to the posting.

Wow...a lot of suggestions....I like the fridge one since it is relatively simple....just cut two holes, one in and one out...and you can even use it to cool your beer while enjoying the koi. hehehe

The split unit compressor idea may be good but I think is too technical for me....and worry that I may get electric shock.

If I had an indoor pond, I will definitely go for the fridge. A small samung fridge only cost about $250 and it can be tuck away easily. But on the other hand, if I have an indoor pond, I may not need a chiller anymore.

In an outdoor environment, unless I'm going to run a long piping....this may not be a good idea.

In any case, may be a chiller is a better option. Any one has idea how much it cost?

Cheers,
Patrick

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Apr 30, 2003, 9:37 PM

Post #21 of 74 (5887 views)
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Re: [HWONG] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hwong,

Sorry for the late reply. Do you know how tall this tower needs to be for it to be efficient?

BTW, how much temperature can it lower?

Thanks,
Patrick

HWONG
Koi Addict

May 1, 2003, 1:01 AM

Post #22 of 74 (5876 views)
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Re: [patrick123] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Patrick U can visit the Momotaro site to see its relative height. In my opinion around 5 ft. The ones that I saw at kepong Aquarium is about that. There is another installation in Klang. This one is about 10-12 ft tall. It uses bioballs instead of the Momo bacteria house (synthetic coral like tubular blocks) Temp? I dont know but those who have it says the water is much colder than B4. Actually you just just want to cool the water you can just pump your water through a couple of big shower heads at a height of 4 ft. This should do the trick and it is a very cheap experiment

patrick123
Koi Kichi

May 1, 2003, 1:48 AM

Post #23 of 74 (5874 views)
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Re: [HWONG] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hwong,

Thanks for the info. The biggest challenge is how to do this and not destroy the natural landscape of the garden....

Are you planning to build one too?

Thanks,
Patrick

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

May 1, 2003, 3:31 PM

Post #24 of 74 (5867 views)
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Re: [patrick123] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think the Air Conditioner re work has potential also. Really, not that complicated, inside is just a whole heap of pipes (that flow cold gas) that could be lowered into water no electricals either as suggested by our learned friend! Best idea is to buy a chiller though (It still think they are designed for indoor use). $2k Australian for the biggest I can see available. The TT will work also if you could hide it behind a waterfall or similar. You might be able to get 2 or 3 C drop.

My friend has a Marine 6 foot tank and it costs a fortune to keep cool, 20 000 ltrs will cost a ton. Perhaps you could get a friendly electricial person to by pass your meter box and power it for free!!!

THIS WOULD OF COURSE BE ILLEGAL AND BAD. (if you were busted)

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

Heyyou
Koi Lover

May 2, 2003, 2:47 AM

Post #25 of 74 (5856 views)
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Re: [patrick123] DIY a Chiller [In reply to]	Can't Post

We often have ice covering the pond for weeks at a time, wouldnt worry about the water getting too cold Cool

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