Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: DIY Corner: RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit

Home


	MAIN INDEX	SEARCH POSTS	WHO'S ONLINE	LOG IN

Home: KOI Talk: DIY Corner:
RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit

1 2

View All

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2004, 1:31 AM

Post #1 of 33 (4486 views)
Shortcut

RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit	Can't Post

Great forum, 3 years ago I bought a home with a 19 acre gravel pit. I would like to add some Koi to the lake to watch and feed them as they spawn and grow from the docks and while riding our water bikes. Question- do you think they will thrive in this freshwater clear lake in Southern Ontario Canada that is mostly 4-6' deep with some spots 12' deep? Another variable, the lake has some largemouth bass, yellow perch, rockbass and bluegill. My goal is to have these large colorful and beautiful fish grow and share the water with the other species knowing many YOY will be eaten. I have approx 10-15% weed growth for protection and to act as a nursery. Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions in advance.

Rowly

Kortana
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2004, 2:31 AM

Post #2 of 33 (4475 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hell yeah, I'm sure they'd do brilliantly, with good growth and colour. The fry will probably grow well too!

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2004, 3:08 AM

Post #3 of 33 (4473 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kortana] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Great thanks Kortana I'm looking forward to a little color. Any particular species of Koi will do better in this type of large and populated environment.

Rowly

Kortana
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2004, 4:05 AM

Post #4 of 33 (4469 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, I'm sure that the water will be fine, with it being a large natural body of water (measurements would be welcome!) but buy some test kits to be sure its ok. Find out if there are any large fish-eating predators living in the pond such as a shark or a heron. However, as you said the water is quite deep im pretty confident that the koi will be able to swim out of harm's way.

Koi carp are just colourful carp, and are just divided into the different colour classifications. Of course, some such as the chagoi are noted for being bolder, but they arent very colourful, so any type will do swimmingly in your lake! I expect that you'll be able to happily keep very expensive fish without much fear of them dying which will be nice.

If you have any pictures it would be nice too.

In terms of the koi you should get, I would personally suggest going for kohaku (the standard red and white ones, often regarded as the best kind by purists) as well as the various metallic fish you get. Of course in a large lake like yours you can probably get one of every colour! I'd just suggest avoiding dark coloured ones that arent metallic or you may not see their glittery swish as they swim through the water.

Might I also suggest that when you first get your fish, if you can segregate an area of the pond (eg around the dock) and keep the fish in there for a while and feed them there daily. That way they'll get to know you and once they are let loose on the whole pond they'll return to you for food. Just a suggestion, if it is impractical then just put food in the same place every time you feed and eventually they should get used to you and come see you.

A nice thing about your lake is of course that you can swim in it and the koi will become used to you and may even swim with you after a while. Yay!

So... i dunno if i've answered everything you want to know, but there are lots of other people here who are more than happy to help you with anything you need to know so don't hesitate to ask

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jun 28, 2004, 9:32 PM

Post #5 of 33 (4402 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kortana] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Kortana:

Thanks again for the post, the lake is approx. 1000' L X 750" w. I'm in the process of rehab. along the shorelines and 2 islands. Last summer I built a floating dock out to the islands some 60' from shore along the east shoreline. I also added a few domestic ducks and geese to the mix to enjoy their beauty. Question- at what size will the koi start to reproduce and how big will these fish get in this large natural environment for them??????Thanks

Rowly

Kortana
Koi Lover

Jun 29, 2004, 3:42 AM

Post #6 of 33 (4392 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

I believe that generally most koi start reproducing when they are about 2 years old. Some of the top prize-winning koi can be over a meter long, but I imagine you'll get ones which grow to about 70-90cm, i think.

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jun 29, 2004, 8:47 PM

Post #7 of 33 (4363 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kortana] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Kortana, thanks again....Question- in your previous thread you spoke of water and make sure that it is OK...test with a kit...are you speaking about PH levels???? What ranges are best for Koi and is there anything else I'm looking for? Yes I have predators in some herons and the occassional cormorant with the large mouth bass in the biomass. Good thing is I have between 10-15% weed grow to help hide the fish while they grow to a size they aren't eaten. With young of year what kind of growth can I expect annual in this large body of water???? Thanks

Rowly

Kortana
Koi Lover

Jun 29, 2004, 9:31 PM

Post #8 of 33 (4359 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

By water quality i mean - Ammonia, Nitrite and pH levels. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and pH of around 8.5 i believe is ideal. I expect that you won't need to alter the pH, but finding out the ammonia and nitrite levels would be ideal.

Well, in terms of growth rate, if you were to buy a 30 cm koi, it could go from 30-70 cm in a little over a year.

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jun 29, 2004, 10:39 PM

Post #9 of 33 (4355 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kortana] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Kortana, even if I measure for ammonia and nitrite levels how could I ever control millions of gallons of water in my 19 acre tank? This is getting interesting......Thanks

Rowly

Kortana
Koi Lover

Jun 29, 2004, 10:49 PM

Post #10 of 33 (4353 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes, that's true, it would be very hard to control it, but i suspect that in a natural body of water with fish living there already nature will have found a balance anyway. Testing just makes sure that it's a comfortable environment for fish to live in. If and when you do start adding koi, do it slowly, one fish every 2 weeks maybe.

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jun 29, 2004, 11:33 PM

Post #11 of 33 (4351 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kortana] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Get thanks Kortana....any idea on #'s per ac to stock????? These koi need to find each other sometime to spawn. I bet with the different varieties and cross breeding, there should be some interesting color and shapes in time? Should I cull all non-colored koi I see in time as they establish in the lake. I'm thinking of starting to stock a 1/4 Acre gravel pit pond I have first to see how they do in this type of environment before I introduct into the larger lake. I think it sounds like a project. In time I want to pump up 8-10000 gal hr into a waterfall and create 2-3 small lined ponds up near the house and add approx. 300' of streambed and let the water fall back into the lake to recycle back up thru the course again. Therefore I believe I will not need any biofilters etc because the water will be circulated from the clear water lake. Any thoughts you guys........?????

Rowly

Kortana
Koi Lover

Jun 30, 2004, 12:27 AM

Post #12 of 33 (4343 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think you should ask kgt1223 about breeding koi, he's the man in the know for that.

I dunno the stocking levels, you should ask him too. I think biofilters would still be a nice idea to help keep the water quality high, aiding nature as it were. But I dont think you'd really need to make it a priority.

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jun 30, 2004, 1:01 AM

Post #13 of 33 (4339 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kortana] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Kortana for your posts, what do ya think kgt1223 about my future project, stocking rates etc. Thanks

Rowly

windowman
Koi Lover

Jul 3, 2004, 4:58 AM

Post #14 of 33 (4246 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Rowly-

Ain't gonna work. I know what a largemouth bass is. It is a bass with a largemouth, Ha Ha, that will eat anything smaller than it is. A carnivore. Ducklings are not safe or have you noticed?

Mass wild spawning will degenerate your collection to pond mutts and so many of them that you will be trying to net them out to throw them away.

Large female only koi would certainly benefit from all the water and you could have beautiful giants. World class giants with that much pure Canadian water. BTW test for metals and other gravel pit toxins not for ammonia and nitrite. I have an accurate idea how much water 19 acres is. You may have to bring a water sample to the geeks in the nearest college town for this testing but it is unlikely that koi would be sensitive to something that the other fish are not.

Try Canadian Koi and Pond in Newcastle or Clark Koi in Toronto for some real knowledge and advice. Canadian will have links to Brady at Lotus Land or you could look on your own and find Brett Rowley at Brett's fish farm in Texas. Thought you might like the name.

Travel to Japan could also be an avenue for procuring fish for your pond. How nutty are you? Am I off base and "Tons O' Mutts" is what you are after?

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jul 3, 2004, 5:12 AM

Post #15 of 33 (4241 views)
Shortcut

Re: [windowman] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Windowman, great wisdom and advise grasshopper....HA!HA! Serious time- I think you're right with the gene pool. I did this with my LBM and bluegill. I also believe I could grow whale size koi in this biomass with the abundance of food weed and proper growing conditions. My wife and kids like to cruise the lake on water bikes and they would enjoy the color and size of the koi on their tours. Maybe they could train these friendly giants to swim along with them from the swim platform?? Should I cull all the inferior colored kio when I catch or seine for them???? Thanks

Rowly

windowman
Koi Lover

Jul 3, 2004, 9:46 AM

Post #16 of 33 (4230 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, Rowly, seining would be a monumental feat. What about a netted off and entirely contained area for just koi? No largemouths and no bluegills.

Maybe it would be best to avoid the crap fish entirely instead of trying to get rid of them later.

People swim with their fish and talk to their fish, pet them and pick them up and kiss them. If you want them to follow you around the lake I bet you could find a way.

Please, because we are on a Malaysian website and because these topical koi sifu have let me learn so much from them, maybe you could post water temperatures from today, a good way into summer? Surface temp and, for whoops and giggles, maybe three feet down?

Jpgs of lake? Jpgs of Rowly holding Hog Bass by bottom lip?

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jul 5, 2004, 8:04 PM

Post #17 of 33 (4196 views)
Shortcut

Re: [windowman] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Windowman, I will take some temps today or tomorrow, I believe the surface temp. should still be in the mid 70's F as the weather hasn't been overly hot yet for here in SW Ontario, Canada. The lake does warm up into the low 80's F because it is mostly a shallow water lake with 60% depth of 5' or less but I do have some 12-14' (4-5 acres). This deep water really helps in stopping winter kill for the fish. I also use a windmill to help keep some of the water open in the winter as well as a place for my ducks and geese to swim during those 3 months of frozen ice. No big bass yet just stocked last year but they are growing great in my biomass.

Rowly

koifishgirl
Koi Kichi

Jul 11, 2004, 10:35 AM

Post #18 of 33 (4133 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

will a pond 6ftdeep stay clear without a bio filter if you put gravel in bottom
Judy

ucpondguy
Member

Jul 11, 2004, 11:15 AM

Post #19 of 33 (4131 views)
Shortcut

Re: [koifishgirl] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello,
Speaking from my experience, I think putting gravel on the bottom of your pond can cause spots where bad bacteria can grow. Koi always spit out the gravel which stirs up the bottom and makes it murky.

However, here is an article that is a good read and explains both sides.

http://www.livingjewels.com/Basics/cok/gravel.htm

texasproud34
Koi Lover

Jul 11, 2004, 1:01 PM

Post #20 of 33 (4125 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi

I love the idea of such a large body of water full of koi. I do think you need to decide what you want it to be. It can be a great lake for bass or a great lake for koi. I have tried adding koi to the 36 acre lake at my cabin but have yet to see any after being released. I stocked the lake with coppernose bluegill and Florida bass 5 years ago. Between those two fish, nothing slow or colorful will survive. I also have a large amount of moss in the lake for cover for the koi. The bluegill will eat anything small in the water. They control the bass numbers by eatting most of the eggs and fry. The bass eat everything they see and they are alot quicker than a koi ever thought about. Around here koi and goldfish are sold in baitshops and work great as that. The fish are just so colorful the bass find and devour them quickly. End result for me is I have a 6000 gallon pond for koi and a 36 acre lake for bass and everything else.

If you can keep them seperate, great go for it otherwise I think a lot of time,effort and fish will be wasted. Talk to Brett, he can give you tons of info on all the fish and stocking.

Good luck
Keith

applemuncher
Koi Lover

Jul 11, 2004, 2:12 PM

Post #21 of 33 (4120 views)
Shortcut

Re: [texasproud34] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

keith is right, the kois may do better if they have their own lot - why not carve out a 5 arce pond for the kois?

Rowly
Koi Lover

Jul 12, 2004, 8:25 PM

Post #22 of 33 (4032 views)
Shortcut

Re: [texasproud34] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks everyone, I think your right. Maybe I will put a few larger kio in the lake to watch and I do have access to a 1/4 acre pond to develop and grow kio. As far as gravel in a lined kio pond.....I think in my situation with clear water being pump up and thru the water course I think the water will remain clear as it recycles back into the lake to recycle back up again at 8-10000 gals an hr. Any idea on how much growth a 2" kio would grow in the northern states per year in avg. feeding conditions, etc. Thanks

Rowly

ponddude
New User

Jul 14, 2004, 8:53 AM

Post #23 of 33 (3954 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

First of all...wow!!! I wish I had something that big. A few things though, if you could take some pictures that would be amazing. Also, what kind of watercourses and pump do you have? Another thing is if you wont to breed the koi you will need something for them to spawn in. If they don't have that they will not reproduce! If those weeds that you are growing are to deep the eggs will be crushed and you will not have any koi at all. But please lets get some pictures up!!

khaku2
Novice

Jul 14, 2004, 9:23 AM

Post #24 of 33 (3952 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Rowly] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

is your gravel pit 1 acre big, wow. wonder where your gonna get a liner that big. you must be getting a huge filter system. your gonna have a pacific ocean in your backyard.

Warning : This khaku2 has made a great number of posts in this forum and most of them are posted just for the sake of posting. You may wish to ignore his post if you are not sure whether what he posted is right or wrong.

Kortana
Koi Lover

Jul 14, 2004, 6:30 PM

Post #25 of 33 (3936 views)
Shortcut

Re: [khaku2] RE: 19 Acre Clear Water Gravel Pit [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well unless he decides to concrete it up he probably doesnt wont ever need a filter as mother nature will be able to work as it is a much more natural environment. Also, Unless he got like a 150,000gph pump his water turnover would be very slow

1 2

View All

Search for (options)

Back to Koi.com.my Main Page

Disclaimer Privacy Statement
Copyright 2001~ 2002 Hileytech Sdn Bhd , All Rights Reserved.
No part of the forum postings can be copied without prior permission from Hileytech Sdn Bhd and the Author of the Posting.
For comments and Suggestion, Please contact the Webmaster at koi@hileytech.com