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Home: KOI Talk: DIY Corner:
TT brainstorming. Comments welcome.

 






 


larz1
Koi Kichi


Aug 7, 2005, 4:21 AM

Post #1 of 11 (2256 views)
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TT brainstorming. Comments welcome. Can't Post

Sitting here getting used to my new computer,(my old one died a horrible death yesterdayMad) I'm trying to comfort myself by thinking "low tech".
As many of you know, my pond is fed by a long stream bed and I've been thinking of how to utilize it to the max for biofiltration. It occurs to me that if I put a 1"-2" deep layer of lava rock in the stream, cover it with the pea gravel and pebbles that are already lining the bottom I should have the functional equivalent of a TT.
The water is well aerated by rippling along the rocks with an open surface area of 2' wide x 20' long if I only use the upper portion of the stream. The Biomedia (lava rock) is protected from UV by the top layer of pebbles.

Tell me what you think.
Have I had a flash of low tech "Brilliance"Cool
or...
just a bad case of "Synaptic Flatulence", (otherwise known as a "Brain fart")
brought on by drinking too much coffee with a german beer chaser?Crazy


Koi38
Senior Member


Aug 7, 2005, 4:24 PM

Post #2 of 11 (2218 views)
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Re: [larz1] TT brainstorming. Comments welcome. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Larry,

Your idea sounds good in your brainTongueWink
I think the effect will not be same as TT. Remember that TT works by pumping water with some kind of spray bar then passes thru the lava rocks. The rocks are not expose to sunlight coz if they are, the sunlight specially on hot summer months wil kill the good bacteria. Your idea may work as long as your pumping clear water and try to place more lava rocks than plan. I think it will be a biofilter but not a TT, IMHOSmile But if you want my honest opinion, I'll do it. You can't really tell the effect until you try. It's all part of our hobby, never ending experiement. Good luck and let us know the resultWink

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/


Mark
Koi Kichi

Aug 8, 2005, 8:53 AM

Post #3 of 11 (2197 views)
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Re: [larz1] TT brainstorming. Comments welcome. [In reply to] Can't Post

The oxygen rich water the comes out from TT filtration is the result of the "magic" that took place in it. In order for this to happen, unwanted anearobic properties in the water need to be stripped . This is done by exposing the water over a large surface area so that CO2 could escape and oxygen is given the chance once again to be absorbed into the water before returning to the pond.

If this is true, then the magic action is to expose the pond water to as much air as possible.

Larry, your current design of 2ft by 20ft is a very large surface area and it seems to satisfy the Trickle filtration concept.


larz1
Koi Kichi


Aug 8, 2005, 9:59 AM

Post #4 of 11 (2193 views)
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Re: [Koi38] TT brainstorming. Comments welcome. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Jon,
Your thoughts are definitely appreciatedCool. One thing is certain. Like you said, I'll never know until I give it a try. At a minimum it should maintain some level of beneficial bacteria so it really boils down to how muchCrazy. I think I'll give it a whirl and find out.Wink


larz1
Koi Kichi


Aug 8, 2005, 10:09 AM

Post #5 of 11 (2184 views)
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Re: [Mark] TT brainstorming. Comments welcome. [In reply to] Can't Post

Mark,
Thanks for the feedback. The post you started on TT 5 years ago has become a classic and still benefits newcomers like me. Great R&D with wonderful documentation. I'm starting on it soon and it will be interesting to see what kind of results I start getting once the bacteria has a chance to populate. Hopefully the spillway that feeds the stream will give it a good oxygen charge to kick it off and the large flowing surface area will provide the kind of air exchange to keep it healthy.
Thanks again,
Larry


GCSpyder
Koi Addict


Aug 8, 2005, 11:17 AM

Post #6 of 11 (2182 views)
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Re: [larz1] TT brainstorming. Comments welcome. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Lar1,

Purists will say no as pebbles over lava will probably trap sediments which will go anaerobic. As Jon mentioned, this sounds more like submerged, wet filter configuration. Much will depend on the depth of the streamflow. If I will you, I would go for spray effect, ie faster flow, broken by the lava rocks (configuration). You will want to control undesirable spray but I say the max oxygenation and degassing is going to do the water a lot of good.

Why not forget the pebbles, have the water surface broken by the lava rock configuration. Let us know

cheers..


GCSpyder
Koi Addict


Aug 8, 2005, 11:25 AM

Post #7 of 11 (2181 views)
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Re: [Mark] TT brainstorming. Comments welcome. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mark,

Welcome back. Smile

cheers..


larz1
Koi Kichi


Aug 8, 2005, 8:15 PM

Post #8 of 11 (2133 views)
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Re: [GCSpyder] TT brainstorming. Comments welcome. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks GC,
Like you I'm an advocate of using spray whenever possible. I even top off my pond that way to add oxygen to the fresh water. I'm hoping the sediment issue will be taken care of by the prefilter my pump pushes the water through before it enters the stream. Only time will tell.
Top dressing with pebbles is minimal and only for UV protection so the bacteria don't get zappedShocked. I especially like your point on using configuration to create flow breaks and more oxygenation. The more ripples I can create the better so I'll be sure to sculpt the bed to create more eddy's in the current.
Thanks for your help,
Larry


koiguyoz
Member


Aug 8, 2005, 8:54 PM

Post #9 of 11 (2131 views)
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Water tumbles and crashes!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I concur with Koi38 :) The addition of the lava rock in the stream won't be able to replicate the effects of a trickle tower as the media is submerged. However, it must never be discounted in its effects as additional biofiltration to your pond in an environment quite different to those multi-bay filters though.

If there is one good thing to be achieved from the stream is the additional oxygenation created as the water tumbles and crashes on its way from the top of the pond to the bottom, increasing the level of dissolved oxygen. In fact, I've tried to make as much ripples as I could in my lil' cascades.

As to the lava rocks, I confess I have used them inside my aquarium's pressurized canister filter with good results.

But you know what's stranger? Taking some used media from the TT to cycle a Q-tank's submerged filter, with water that bloomed, and seeing how fast the water cleared up in 2 days, and how it could consumer that malachite green, and methylene blue so quickly, usually in a manner of hours.

Regards,
Benny


larz1
Koi Kichi


Aug 9, 2005, 12:13 AM

Post #10 of 11 (2125 views)
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Re: [koiguyoz] Water tumbles and crashes!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Those are some impressive results.Cool Used media would definitely be a great way to seed things and clear up problems in a hurryWink.
I've already been enjoying the benefits of the tumbling water as the entire stream (50') is lined with pea gravel & pebbles. It is a great oxygen supply. I also have 2 catch pools with plants for bog filtration evenly distributed along its length. What I'm hoping is to add one more stage of Bio to the system without messing with barrels that have to be hidden from viewUnsure. My existing system works pretty well most of the time as is, but we're planning to make some changes that will add approx. 2,000 gal. to our volume so I'm trying to add more Bio in advance of future needSmile.
Thanks for your help.
Larry


larz1
Koi Kichi


Nov 2, 2005, 3:47 AM

Post #11 of 11 (1586 views)
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Re: [Mark] TT brainstorming. Comments welcome. [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, Fall is in the air (we had another frost last night) and it is time to put my "low tech TT brainstorm" to bed for the winter and report the final results.
Each respondent to my little idea had good points to make, and in one fashion or another everyone was right about something. But even the downside cautions about detrius collecting in the media turned out for the good after all.

To refresh the whole issue, my pond (2500 gal) is fed by a long stream bed filled with rocks and pebbles and a few small catch pools with plants for additional aeration and biofiltration. My idea was to use the 1st 20' of the stream like a modified TT by filling the bottom with lava rock for biomedia topped with pea gravel to act as a UV shield for the biobacters growing in the lavarock beneath.

Even though my water circulation was woefully inadequate (1000gph to aerated submerged media filter and waterfall + 1000 gph to stream) the overall results were impressive to say the least.
The water quality I began with was already good and I never had any deterioration, even during the hottest period of summer. Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate all stayed at zero throughout 90+ degree days and several hundred fry feeding heavily along with the adults the pond was originally designed for (2500 gallon pond, 120" adult koi, 3 6" algae eaters, +app 200 2" fry at the time the experiment began).

I did have to add a few mat filters to the head of the stream to minimize detrius, but some naturally gets through not to mention the issue of frogs, songbirds, squirrels, etc. that think the stream is there for their drinking, bathing, breeding and so on, each of which add their own dander and dirt to the mix.

I have made it a point to leave the rock undisturbed throughout to see how it would do left to its own designs until today. Preparing an indoor winter tank for the remaining fry (2 dozen, we adopted the rest out) I went to retrieve some biomedia from the stream to seed my indoor biofiltration and much to my surprize I found out why the lava rock never plugged up. My biostream has become a breeding ground for red wormsSmile.

Moving the gravel aside and scooping up some lava rock I noticed very little detrius and in a space no bigger than 6" square I found 3 young worms living among the lavarock. Apparantly, whatever detrius is accumulating is being consumed by them for food and what little they pass as excrement is quickly broken up and consumed by the biobacters and plants. I also have the fringe benefit of home grown worm snacks for my koiWink.

It is an interesting recycleing system if you think about it. Fish food converted to excrement converted to worm food who are in turn converted to fish food!

At the end of the day I have to say it was a very successful experiment with unexpected bonuses. As I do some expansion and remodeling this winter I will definitely be incorporating this right back into the system along with a few upgrades and improvements.

Much thanks to Mark, GC, Oz, John, (and anyone I may have inadvertently forgotten) for your helpful input and advice.

 
 
 



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