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Shy problem

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Vincent
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Oct 6, 2002, 10:05 PM

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Shy problem	Can't Post

hi all,

I have a 6 by 2.5 by 2.5 feet glass fish tank in my living room with about 7 koi in it. 2 koi around 40 cm, 2 koi around 30 cm and 3 koi around 20 cm. I have a serious problem here:

If I need floating food, only 3 bigger koi will surface and grab the food. The rest still remains as mickey mouse, seldom come up n grab the food. Sad to say, they eat the shit from the bigger koi.

When I initially bought the small koi, it just come up n eat, not shy at all. But slowly, I don't know why, I notice when i or my home minister pass by, it will dash away. And also when my bigger koi dash away, it frighten the rest. And now my small koi remain at bottom, seldom come up to eat, so different from when i initially bought it.

It has been this case for nearly a year. the small koi seldom eat at all and the big koi grabs everything. When we pass by, all are afraid.

I was thinking of converting to a fibretank so the koi will not see us so much. I was also thinking of giving away the bigger koi so it will not frighten the small one. But i was afraid that when i give away the big one, the rest are just as afraid because of us passing by the tank.

Please advise. Thanks.

Vincent

Raf Segers
User

Oct 7, 2002, 8:35 AM

Post #2 of 45 (79758 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Vincent,

I hope the more experienced members wil give some advice because i am not the expert Blush

, but i think that wat you wrote is maybe right.

When a tank is completely from glass the koi wil see everywhere odd things for them and are at no point "protected" (take a look yourself true the glass Crazy

). I had a likewise problem but not wit Koi. i put these fish in a aqauarium that had the shape of a large bowl. The fish came easely at first but also like you later the become shy. The reson for me wher propably the childeren who came beside this tank frequently. Then i put the fish in a aquarium with a poster behind 1 site and a few ornaments. at first they stayed shy but a few months later they became more at ease.Now its not a problem and they come up when i come and take a look Smile

.

But never the less i think you should also look for other possibility's like waterconditions en temperatures.

Evenso, I let the best info to the experts Wink

(like allways).

Greetings and hopefully you get help soon!

Beybey,

Raf Cool

cwnchong
Koi Kichi

Oct 7, 2002, 6:11 PM

Post #3 of 45 (79750 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Vincent,

This is my experience. If your aquarium is located at a deserted corner of your house & you seldom view your koi long enough you became a stranger to them. Koi can not take surprises such as shadows moving over them in a sudden, flashes etc. If you see your kois 2 or 3 times a day only for a short while it will not improve the situation. If you cant spend more time with them the next best thing you can do is either relocate your aquarium to a busier place if you can of course or move your chores nearer to the aquarium.

Once I was doing earth work near my pond the fish went for hiding when I started pounding. After a hour or so most of them came nearer toward my direction as though they wanted to know what I was doing.

johnson lee
Veteran

Oct 7, 2002, 7:15 PM

Post #4 of 45 (79748 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Vincent

Kois do not like sudden movements or as mentioned shadows looming before them. They get frightened easily.

However, having said that, I have seen a 15ft long aquarium at a resort's clubhouse and the kois seem oblivious to the comings and goings of humans.

Perhaps, you need to train your kois to get use to both your wife and your presence. Stay in front of them longer, play with them, talk to them and let them get use to you. This way, they shouldn't be so scared everytime they see you walking by.

Alternatively, I was told that you shouldn't place your aquarium near a door or anywhere where someone that cannot be seen by the kois suddenly walks past them. This scares them a lot. I had the same problem with my arowana. Hope this helps.

Vincent
User

Oct 7, 2002, 10:19 PM

Post #5 of 45 (79740 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi all,

Actually only me n my wife stay in the flat, till around 9pm then came back from 9am. The tank is located quite along a busy place where we always walk from bedroom to hall or kitchen, just that we do that only outside of 9am to 9pm. U r right in that if people always walk around all the time, i think the koi will not be scared. But the problem is nobody is around. So what I think is that I put something like my t-shirt near the tank when i leave my flat in the morning and see what happen when i come back. Hopefully when i come back i will not scare myself like as if I saw a person near a tank as my flat is quite dark even in the daytime Laugh

.

To further describe the situation so that maybe u guys can give me some suggestions, the tank is covered on both sides. Only can see the front view. I did this so that when i on my bedroom or kitchen lights, the koi will not dived for cover, as I notice that even when I switch off my hall light, they are frightened. My pH is ok at around 7.5 to 8, and kH is around 8-9dkH, so I think the water is ok, i never net them. I also have a chakoi in the tank around 30cm. Anymore suggestions?

Vincent

Vincent
User

Oct 11, 2002, 9:01 PM

Post #6 of 45 (79708 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi,

I hanged my clothes on my tank for few days now, the koi seems just as shy as the first day i put my clothes there. It has been 4 days now. Sometimes, i moved my clothes to another position. I also never feed them for 4 days already. Trying my best to tame them. I will continue to put there till they are not so shy. Quite stressful for them, but hopefully it is ok.

Before I put my clothes there, they are swimming freely till i walk passed, so trying to tame them.

johnson lee
Veteran

Oct 12, 2002, 10:25 AM

Post #7 of 45 (79691 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Vince

Let us know how you do, OK? Good luck.

Johnson Smile

Vincent
User

Oct 13, 2002, 8:25 AM

Post #8 of 45 (79681 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi Johnson,

I decided to give the koi a weekend break Laugh

, monday i'll hang my clothes there again, I have also fed them, i decide to go slow, now just started the training, cannot too siong,tiring initially for them, 5 days in a row, so later 6 or 7 days in a row with my clothes there. Cause 5 days in a row no food, and staying in 1 corner, feeling stress, think should take a break for the koi.

I have taken away the 2 sides covering the tank, so that the koi got more view of us, previously put is to prevent the koi from being frightened by the switching on of lights of the other rooms.

Vincent

jitwee
User

Oct 14, 2002, 7:44 AM

Post #9 of 45 (79673 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Vincent,

I do have this problem as you when i just setup my tank about 3-3 1/2 months ago. Is your tank a new setup or those shy koi just added in Wink

. It is very normal for koi to be shy and timid. But once they are used to the new enviroment,they tends to very close to you. They need time to settle down. Some may come from very big tank/pond.Suddenly the new enviroment and water condition is so different so they feel very uncomfortable. Just like us we need time to settle down in your new enviroment too.At times they tends to swim so fast till they bang at the fiber tank.

They are just like human beings. You just need to spend more time with them.Let them feel your present. They tends to recongise those that feed and look after them. They are just like us. Need not to worry about the smaller koi not eating.When i just bought my 2 small koi (15cm) they also don't eat much. But once they get used to the new enviroment they are fighting food with the bigger koi.So don't worry too much. Wink

Cheers,
jitwee

Vincent
User

Oct 14, 2002, 8:49 PM

Post #10 of 45 (79661 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi Jitwee,

Sad to say that they are with me for 1 year already. I think the problem is that i have them in a glass tank where they can have a full view of what's going on. If i have them in a fibre tank, then they are all covered and not subjected to external view, only the top view. I wanted to change to fibre tank but subjected to home minister Crazy

I'm actually looking at the fukai pond where they have those ready-make selling at 4k plus, with bottom drain and filter, everything included, but only 6 by 3 feet, ideal will be 8 by 4, but will be more pricy, but still having talk so much, still subjected to minister approval Pirate

Vincent

jsoon
User

Oct 14, 2002, 10:44 PM

Post #11 of 45 (79661 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Everyone,

I am back from my trip and it seems that the site is still buzzing.

I heard from many people that Koi are not meant to be kept in Fish tank. They tend to be afraid and more frightful to the surronding. Secondly, Koi also do not look nice from the side compare to the top.

Getting a nice Fibre tank would be a good option but personal advice is not to go for those kind of pond (no mention of company here) that you would like to purchase as many people regretted getting them even though they have nice water fall etc. The design is not suited for Koi as Koi need a good dept. You can get a new fibre glass tank from Koi farms and you can compare the price different. If you are looking for alternatives to other design, you can also send me an email.

Vincent
User

Oct 15, 2002, 4:06 AM

Post #12 of 45 (79650 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

yeah, kind of agree that koi not for glass tank. But wat to do, already have one. But the one i saw is made of USA culture stone, not the blue fibre tank. So price will be different. But 6 by 3 actually also the same size as what i'm having now. But 8 by 4 is too big for my place... Pirate

, actually ideal size should be 8 by 4. Then the koi will grow to full length. Wat to do, HDB flat, how good if i'm in australia, then all problem solved. no, i'm not quitters, Laugh

.

Anyway, with a 6 by 3 or 8 by 4 blue fibre tank in the hall of HDB flat, how to make it look blend in with the hall furniture and everything, it's like suddenly that's a tank in the hall, quite awkward. That's why saw the one in fukai, quite nice. Not my comment, it's minister Laugh

Vincent

jitwee
User

Oct 15, 2002, 5:03 AM

Post #13 of 45 (79648 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Vincent,

Surprise that your kio is already 1 year. Crazy

Putting a fiber tank at the hall is quite funny but a little bit of decorations will make it look better. I have a 6.5x5.5x2.5 feet at the corner of my hall. Of course my minister support me. By when you come to chang water,you will need a flexi pipe from your tank to the kitchen.Best is to have 2 pipe.One to drain(bigger dia 1 inch) and one to fill in water. Sly

I will be posting my setup soon at the members pond. Take a look ,may be you will have a better idea for your own future tank.

Cheers,
jitwee

jsoon
User

Oct 15, 2002, 5:30 AM

Post #14 of 45 (79644 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Vincent,

Send u an email to your hotmail account with some pictures attachments.

mattloui
User

Oct 15, 2002, 4:53 PM

Post #15 of 45 (79637 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Jsoon

You could also send me the e-mail for a look. I am also a guy who has limited space and is a FG kaki. My e-mail is in the profile. Will appreciate it if you could spare the time.

thanks
CHEERS

Vincent
User

Oct 15, 2002, 10:26 PM

Post #16 of 45 (79621 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi Jonathan,

If u don't mind, pls send me your attachment again, to the same email, wuiseng@hotmail.com, thanks.

And how much is the other cheaper one? What's the size? My minister's idea: neat rectangular shape, with smooth brick/granite kind, best will be something like tiles. I know can get those normal contractors to do it, but it is a lot of hassle. U know i have got my fish tank customed made, it's quite a huge one, it's a lot of hassle.

Anyway, any of u got any idea which contractor does the above mentioned pond, and for how much? Pardon me if the above idea sounds funny. Cool

Vincent

patrick123
Veteran

Oct 15, 2002, 11:13 PM

Post #17 of 45 (79616 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Jonathan,

Send me also lay.... Smile

I'm always a sucker for good information. Smile

Dear All,

After I read this post, one thing I never hear people mention is water condition/quality. Everyone seems to be focusing on the view, and how the koi get scare when people walk by....

Let me share my experience with you. I started my koi hobby with a FG tank (5ft x 2.5ft x 1.5ft). When I first started, just like any beginners, I overstocked my tank. Then I realized that the koi were very jumpy. They would dash whenever someone walked near them. When you threw in the food, some of them would just jump up and snap the food and run to hide. This had been going on for several months and became a vicious cycle. I had always tested my ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, etc. and everything was ok.

Later on, I realized that everytime after I did partial water change (sometimes 50%), the fishes seem to be more energetic and they tend to swim up more and became more friendly. After that, I added more bio materials, added a TT, did more partial water change, things started to improve significantly. They were no longer shy and would sometimes cruise around on the surface.

Now that I have a new pond, the fish are like in heaven. Since the pond is exposed to 100% sunlight, they will hide in the day time, but will come cruising, waiting for food in the morning and night.

What I make out of this is the DOC (Dissolved Organic Compound) in the water or the dissolve oxygen level that makes the difference.

Instead of focusing on covering the tank with blanket, try to do some water change or relook at your filter system and see if it improves the situation. Also, take a look at the color of your fish, if they are happy, their color will be vibrant.

Good luck.

Vincent
User

Oct 16, 2002, 3:30 AM

Post #18 of 45 (79607 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi Patrick,

U got a point there, this weekend i'll flush my filter, I have changed all my corel stones in my 3by2 ft filter at the bottom and intend to replace them with japanese mat, so this weekend i'll put in the mat, do water changes, and see any effect or not. But very siong Pirate

, notice i cry n laugh at the same time. very tired.

Vincent

patrick123
Veteran

Oct 16, 2002, 7:38 PM

Post #19 of 45 (79588 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Vincent,

Why you say very siong? Is it the money of changing the bio materials? or is the energy wasted? I thought koi keeping is supposed to be a fun thing? Cool

Anyway, I don't advise that you change out all coral chips at the same time and replace with jap mat. This way, you will be starting your tank as if it is brand new....you going to have more problem and more "siong" for you as the ammonia and nitrite will start to shoot up again.

Put in the jap mat, but slowly remove the coral chips a little bit at a time. Bear in mind that in a small tank, coral chips not only serve as a bio filter but also mech filter....but your jap mat are only good for bio....so your water clarity will drop at the beginning. Things to look into is also bio-rings or bio-home. These are good bio materials and offer a lot of surface area for good bacteria to colonise. It will be especially useful if your filter is small.

Anymore questions, please shoot.

Cheers,

Patrick

Vincent
User

Oct 19, 2002, 5:34 PM

Post #20 of 45 (79548 views)
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hi Patrick and the others,

yeah, the weekend is here, and have taken out the corel stones before your previous posting advising me not to take out the corel stones. but nevermind, i have bought new japnese mat, but it will take long time for the bio bact to be developed.

Wah, very siong of cleaning the filter. My filter has only 3 compartments and no bottom drain. So every time, i have to take out the stack of mat and use a pump to pump out the dirty water. In the end of exercise, feeling tired and make me less willing to wash the filter. Crazy

So i'm thinking of getting a fibreglass tank filter of size 4 feet by 1.5 by 1.5 with bottom drain for easy maintenance. Anyone knows which koi farm sells them and for how much? I have searched the forum, no result.

jsoon
User

Oct 20, 2002, 7:00 AM

Post #21 of 45 (79538 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Vincent,

I also have the same problem as you with my first pond and what I did was to attached a pump and a small hose in the compartment and when I want to wash the filter, I would have a connector to the small hose and pump out the dirt.

It is not 100% that you can get rid of all the dirt but at least you do not disturb the good bugs.

koifun
Veteran

Oct 20, 2002, 2:25 PM

Post #22 of 45 (79532 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, Vincent

For that size of filter have u considered using 8mm thickness glass material to do? It will be cheaper and can keep your filter condition checked visually now and then.

I have made one vertical glass tower ( W30cm x L42cm x H90cm) with three compartments and brushes in the 1st compartment, Jap mat in 2nd and third comp. The centre comp is narrow ( jap mat placed in vertical arrangement ) for water passage only. This serves as mechanical filter before water enters the main filter tank which now serves solely as biological filter. It works wonderfully well for more than a month with no algae at all. On top of the glass tower have a few water plants ( fully submerged and partially submerged types ) to take away nitrate and decorative - so no need TT for the time being as the water parameters are very good. Imagine I have 23 kois in a 8 x 4 x 2.5 FB pond and are all healthy, happy and hungry ( 3H standard ). I also rear a few guppies in the 3rd comp to double sure the water is good b4 entering into the main filter tank ( 1st line of defence ) and they are thriving. Water test on the 3rd compartment show up very well too with 0 ammonium, 0 nitrite and 20 ppm nitrate - the same result as the pond water parameters.

Another good thing about this addition is I make the bottom drains much bigger so water can be discharged very fast rate to clear trapped debris. The fast rate is also partly due to pressure of water since it is vertical.

This glass tower is like an aquarium and is also like a miniature highrise building - very nice looking indeed surrounded with plants like bird nest ferns etc..

The cost is about S$100 vs a FB of $200 or more as mold is required for specially designed tank.

Hope that help.

Rgds

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"

Vincent
User

Oct 20, 2002, 5:58 PM

Post #23 of 45 (79526 views)
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Re: [Koifun] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi Koifun,

yeah, my filter is actually made of glass material with 3 compartments and 4by1.5by1.5, but no bottom drain Unsure

.

Where or which contractor do u make your glass tower? Or u make it yourself? Where do u get the material?

Vincent

koifun
Veteran

Oct 20, 2002, 8:34 PM

Post #24 of 45 (79523 views)
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Re: [Vincent] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

OK. Vincent

Are u dwelling near Serangoon area? If u come from Braddel Road turn left to serangoon, on your righthand side ( over the otherside of the new flyover ) there is a row of shophouses and three glass merchants spread over the row. I made from the first one that is next to a tyre shop. You ask around to bargain for the cheapest. Remember, as far as I know every hole made on the glass is $3.00 - any size( some fish shop may charge $15.00 as they sub out to glass maker to do it )

You have to design it yourself and ask them to make for u otherwise they will charge u consultation - just a joke! But possible ! Unimpressed

Please feel free to ask if more info required. I will be most happy to assist. Cheers Sly

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"

koifun
Veteran

Oct 20, 2002, 9:15 PM

Post #25 of 45 (79521 views)
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Re: [Koifun] Shy problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Vincent

Sorry, I didn't read your previous message b4 writing to u. Now I understand after going back to the earlier messages posted by u that u are already using glass tank wanting to change to FB. My advice might not be suitable then . Have a good week ends. Sly

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"

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