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Mohan Ghandi
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Nov 19, 2006, 9:59 PM

Post #1 of 69 (6788 views)
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Momotaro Eagle Bloodline Tosais

End of last month, I acquired five tosais from the Momotaro Eagle bloodline. In fact, I went earlier to Vincent’s place to look at them but Vincent was away. I earmarked a few. When Vincent was back, I received a call. I rushed to get the tosais.

Here you are the mother and 4 of the Tosais. Unfortunately, one of the tosais (a maruten ) jumped to it’s death in a heavy afternoon thunder storm.

What I like most in them, is the outstanding body shape and the ability to eat, eat and eat. This reminds me of what Hiroji Sakai said in a ZNA seminar in Tokyo on “Sakai Kohaku story" (25/9/99) “koi should thrive on being fed much as they could eat”

Koi kichis who had obtained a specimen pls share your bundle of joy with us.

I will post them as it takes shape.

BIODATA OF TOSAI KOHAKU

Bloodline: Oyagoi White Eagle

Grandparent: 98cm

Mother: 88cm

D.O.B: 30th July 2006

Mother: 88cm

23cm
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

(This post was edited by Mohan Ghandi on Nov 19, 2006, 10:19 PM)

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Mohan Ghandi
Member

Nov 19, 2006, 10:12 PM

Post #2 of 69 (6785 views)
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23cm

21cm
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

(This post was edited by Mohan Ghandi on Nov 19, 2006, 10:17 PM)

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Mohan Ghandi
Member

Nov 19, 2006, 10:29 PM

Post #3 of 69 (6777 views)
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23cm

Pls share your comments with me.

Hkk
Mohan. Smile

Hkk
Mohan. Cool

(This post was edited by Mohan Ghandi on Nov 19, 2006, 10:35 PM)

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HWONG
Koi Addict

Nov 20, 2006, 5:14 PM

Post #4 of 69 (6703 views)
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Allo Towkay,
Wah mayak ikan bili ah... Many of those tosais have nice bodies. You really need to sit down and slowly sieve through as there are so many of them. I have seen the tosais and had one booked Laugh

. I like the pattern on Koi 2. Hope they grow up to be females and jumbo Cool

Heard that a Momotaro Kohaku belonging to Takigawa took the Grand Champion at the just cncluded ZNA All Japan Show.

Luckily you bought yours early... the price might just shoot up like Sakais lately!

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Nov 21, 2006, 12:09 PM

Post #5 of 69 (6640 views)
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Re: [HWONG] Momotaro Eagle Bloodline Tosais [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello Wong,

Don’t forget that you are the one who opened the flood gates to Vincent’s shop lately.

There were so many & it was like choosing the proverbial needle in the haystack. Vincent helped to short list them. Infact, the No.2 Kohaku was recommend by him. I was attracted to it because it had a big mouth like the size of my index finger. According to him, it has the potential to turn out a jumbo in my pond. But the only drawback is that the hi is not reaching the nostril. His reply is “Jumbo ini tada kira”

I am happy possessing these kois & the fact that Momotaro koi won the recent ZNA GC is an added plus. Here is the Picture of the Grand Champion.

Pls log on to “Koi-Bito Magazine Koi Forum”- “general koi froum” –for the latest on the ZNA All JAPAN SHOW.

Hkk
Mohan. Smile

Hkk
Mohan. Cool

(This post was edited by Mohan Ghandi on Nov 21, 2006, 12:14 PM)

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Mohan Ghandi
Member

Apr 8, 2007, 12:18 PM

Post #6 of 69 (6236 views)
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Momotaro kohaku Tosai 5 Months Later.

I managed to net the four Momotaro Tosais from my big pond and wish to share with you the growth and development. Two of them are males and the other two are female. In my opinion it is worthwhile keeping Momotaro males because they have jumbo proportion.

Any comments on the Tosais? – Pls be free to throw your comments.

The local dealer suggested that as they are of the Eagle bloodline they have the capacity to become jumbos.

Fellow hobbyist who had experience breeding this bloodline can you share your experience?

.......44cm male........................................44cm female.....................42cm male ..................................48cm female
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

(This post was edited by Mohan Ghandi on Apr 8, 2007, 12:29 PM)

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larz1
Koi Kichi

Apr 9, 2007, 9:40 PM

Post #7 of 69 (6135 views)
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Re: [Mohan Ghandi] Momotaro Eagle Bloodline Tosais [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello Mohan,
I agree with your assesment on the males having jumbo potential. Excellent bodies on both with much growth potential.
The smaller female appears in the photo to have a bit of thinning in the hi plate along the dorsal line, but it may just be photo glare... hard to tell.
What stands out in all 4 is the darker centers in the beni scales. A very good sign for the future IMHO. Also noteworthy is that the color seems consistent from head to tail on each of them. The sashi seems to be slowly consolodating into the hi plates as they grow as well.
The shiroji is looking better as the beni consolodates. A bit of yellow on the heads still, but even though they have good size, they are still young so it is to be expected.
One last observation is the Kiwa. Pictures are difficult to see detail on so I'll need to rely on your firsthand observation to confirm what I think I see. Both males and the larger female appear to have characteristics of marusome kiwa with very well defined edges on the scales. Is that what you see up close?

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Apr 10, 2007, 10:33 PM

Post #8 of 69 (6043 views)
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Re: [larz1] Momotaro Eagle Bloodline Tosais [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Larz,

Good to hear your educative comments on my kois.

I think the male koi is developing marusome kiwa. The Kiwa of the other kois are not distinct as yet. I will post a pix later if the kois develop to my expectation .The most exciting thing of rearing these momo tosais is that they can eat , eat and eat to our excitement.

Every time there is a Comment from Wong, Dr. Teh, Thiamhwa and yourself (sorry if I left out others) on my kois , I feel that it is worth the effort posting my kois.

Gentlemen, keep your comments flowing. We are looking forward to it.

Hkk
Mohan. Cool

larz1
Koi Kichi

Apr 17, 2007, 9:23 PM

Post #9 of 69 (5860 views)
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I would also like to hear comments from others on these. Feedback from some of our senior members is always valuable in our shared learning.
Looking back at some of the earlier pictures it is worth noting that the odome tailstop on all 4 is well placed now, but on the larger female in particular it extended all the way to the base of the tailfin when younger. Some may have passed on her in spite of her excellent conformation and skin quality. Your eye for the future to cause her to stretch into a more perfect pattern has served you well.
Another thing I'm noticing is the appearance of fukurin in the scales. It is difficult to see well in the photos, but once again in the larger female I can see a bit of "greyish white" on the edges of the beni scales. Some might think it blur, but even in this photograph it is apparant to me that it is the light catching the reflection of fukurin development. This is an indication of very high quality skin and scales. (can you tell she is my favorite of the 4 Wink

)
If at some future date you have them bowled again some tight closeups of the scales to show this would be excellent for learning about how high quality fukurin looks.
There are some good closeups of very young fukurin on beni and sumi scales on this post on another forum. (I am PapaBear on KB forum)
http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/general-koi-forum/6030-sumi-marusome-kiwa-unique-matsunosuke.html
Another great closeup of fukurin scales is found here on page 3 of the following thread. Also of a different Koi on page 10.
http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/general-koi-forum/5664-so-i-put-some-tangerine-lip-gloss-answered-door-3.html

(This post was edited by larz1 on Apr 17, 2007, 9:32 PM)

HWONG
Koi Addict

Apr 18, 2007, 11:41 PM

Post #10 of 69 (5764 views)
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Towkay,
I still like kois no 4. These days, I go for pattern lah. Good thing it is a female. Sashi kiwa is good. The shiroji if like mine koi of the same batch shud be ok. There seems to be 2 types of body shapes; one is the longish type like koi 1 and the stout one like koi4. I prefer the bulky type.. My only reservation for this batch of kohakus is the blocky head and the bulgy eyes. My kohaku whcih is still at the dealerhas that look and I no like lah.. Unimpressed

I am told kois that are fed to grow big and fast suffer from this bulgy eye too. SO When I bring mine home, I will not rush its growth.

What do you think?

koinutx
Koi Lover

May 1, 2007, 9:44 PM

Post #11 of 69 (5551 views)
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Re: [HWONG] Momotaro Eagle Bloodline Tosais [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mohan & HWong,

I've gotten this piece which I believed is from the same batch (DOB 30 July 06).
It's a female and photo taken last week, 27 Apr 07, measured at 40cm. Smile

The smaller in size may explained the thicker beni. (compared to yours at 40++cm)
What do you think of this?

(This post was edited by koinutx on May 1, 2007, 9:51 PM)

Mohan Ghandi
Member

May 2, 2007, 5:55 PM

Post #12 of 69 (5491 views)
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Wong &larz1

The larger appears to be a female – I will confirm later.

The other female is putting on good confirmation – I presume it is going to put on more girth then the other female.

Fukurin

Difficult to say – perhaps my next netting & posting will confirm it – I will give you a close up of the scales. – I enjoyed the link – especially the Marusome sumi.

Just like both of you, the larger female was Vincent’s favorite. But I think the other female is going to do well – it is bulging up and I am pushing it.

I do not understand what you mean by ‘blocky head’. Neither do I like the bulgy eggs – larger female developing it.

I assume bulgy eyes are the trait of Eagle bloodline. Let us have a picture of your koi so that all can enjoy.

Koinutx

I like the pattern. Good hi plate and shiroji. I presume the Beni is the same – maybe mine is spreading because I ‘m pushing it hard.

Defects.

Lacks body confirmation and odome Hi stop not prefect. But over all, I like the Tosai – please keep updating as it improves . Do you see the fukurin development? Any signs of bulgy eggs?
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

koinutx
Koi Lover

May 2, 2007, 6:28 PM

Post #13 of 69 (5488 views)
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In Reply To

Koinutx

I like the pattern. Good hi plate and shiroji. I presume the Beni is the same – maybe mine is spreading because I ‘m pushing it hard.

Defects.

Lacks body confirmation and odome Hi stop not prefect. But over all, I like the Tosai – please keep updating as it improves . Do you see the fukurin development? Any signs of bulgy eggs?

Mohan,

Yours is definitely 'pushing it too hard'.... Cool

almost 50 or so already.

On the body confirmation, I cannot comment as I'm new to this bloodline. But was recommended as a better tosai among the batch. Crazy

and the odome will spread as it grow....not sure how true is this. Crazy

Fukurin seem to be developing, and this is the attraction point that I like.
Bulgy eggs? not sure how to see Blush

....I'll continue to update this fish progress...but bear in mind, my is a mini pond at 8 ton...so dun expect any fast growth. Pirate

Mohan Ghandi
Member

May 3, 2007, 10:12 PM

Post #14 of 69 (5431 views)
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Hi Koinutx,

By bulgy eyes we mean the eyes is bulging out. See the pic of the mother I posted.

Looking forward to your posting as your koi progress.

Others, who purchased this bloodline from Mr. Vincent please share yours with us.
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

nikey
Koi Lover

May 31, 2007, 11:43 PM

Post #15 of 69 (5123 views)
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Hi Mohan,
Very interesting specimens you have. I have a few questions here. Sorry for long post.

aa) Based on this batch of white eagle bloodline, are most of them having yellowish head, even before you acquired them? I saw all the 4 koi have the same yelllowishness.
bb) The 4 koi have quiet a "body mass", is this the character of the white eagle when young?
cc) Is their body height quiet tall? I really can't see it from this top view photo.
dd) Is the redness at the center of the scale strong and bright at this young age? or they have called the "hi plate" appear?
ee) Koi#2,3 and 4 have their gill covers quiet open while Koi#1 didn't, were those koi 2,3 and 4 a bit nervous while photo being taken? Just curious.

Thanks in advance.
Nikey......

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Jun 6, 2007, 8:31 PM

Post #16 of 69 (4932 views)
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Hello Nikey,

Here are the answers:

aa). No, Yellowish head is due to stress. See koinutx's tosai and the recent pixs of the kois below.

bb). Yes, Momo kois have huge bodies becoz of magoi bloodline. Koi 2 is putting on bulk and is now 50cm.

cc). Yes, Koi 2 & 4 have tall bodies bcoz they are females.

dd). The gill covers are not open always except in respect of koi 4. When it was a Tosai, I suspected something wrong and kept it in salt solution but the gills remained open. I think it is normal bcoz it appears to be a huge koi and the gill plates reminds of elephant ears.

Sorry, for the late reply bcoz we were in Singapore for the koi show - See my write up in the koi show section.

Here is the latest pixs of the kois.

50 cm

45 cm
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

(This post was edited by Mohan Ghandi on Jun 6, 2007, 8:36 PM)

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Mohan Ghandi
Member

Jun 6, 2007, 8:39 PM

Post #17 of 69 (4924 views)
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52cm female. This is Wong's favourite - also my favourite but i presume
everyone will love it when it reaches the 80Bu bracket - the first step is like
fire band.

50cm female

I expect these two females to do well and hit the jumbo bracket. The Yondan Kohaku has a window (Kokesuki) which must close up. What is your comment?
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

(This post was edited by Mohan Ghandi on Jun 6, 2007, 9:17 PM)

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nikey
Koi Lover

Jun 6, 2007, 11:45 PM

Post #18 of 69 (4882 views)
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Hi Mohan,
Appreciate your response.
My sincere apology if any of my below remark some what offensive to you. There are just my personal view and with a little bit of my eyeing only.

It Looks like your favourite kohaku is growing well with clear edge between the colour (kiwa?). The fire band is developing quiet nicely.

My personal view on the window of the other female is not so critical. I mean if there is a window, I (at least myself) would hope the window will break all the way out downwards to make it perfect edge. If the window disappears, it would be perfect. The body structure seems very strong and my opinion is it can outgrow the "fire band" kohaku. This is based on the thick and wide tail plus body proportion/structure. On the 52cm female kohaku, I do notice that there are some "fukurin" scale on the fire band kohaku I am not sure. The downside of the 50cm female kohaku is the edges not clear and this hopefully clear up as it grows. Is this 50cm kohaku a strong eater among the 4? It looks like the one.

Overall I think you have very good specimens to be kept!!

Nikey......

koinutx
Koi Lover

Jun 7, 2007, 9:02 AM

Post #19 of 69 (4871 views)
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Mohan,

Your fish are grow very well.....long and bulky!
my did not put on girth yet, it is still 'skinny' and longish.....

The bulgy eye is more obvious now. Frown

nikey
Koi Lover

Jun 7, 2007, 12:27 PM

Post #20 of 69 (4847 views)
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Hi Koinutx,
Just out of curosity, is your yellowishness of your kohaku slowly going away?
Nikey......

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Jun 10, 2007, 1:09 PM

Post #21 of 69 (4759 views)
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Hello there,
Thanks for your contributions
Nikey,

Do not worry I will accept honest and frank brickbats made without prejudice or malice.
The two female kohakus and the male kohaku with artistic head are ferocious eaters (see my quote above.)

The window should close up or open up – either will be acceptable to me.

Koinutx

Try to improve your feeding regime

Lately at the seminar at Kepong koi Momotaro junior said tosais shud be fed five time a day and jumbos twice a day.

Hkk
Mohan. Cool

HWONG
Koi Addict

Jun 12, 2007, 5:08 PM

Post #22 of 69 (4644 views)
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HWONG'S Momotaro Eagle Bloodline Tosais [In reply to]	Can't Post

OK,,, last weekend, went to Kepong and got Vincent to net up my Eagle tosai. Here it is measured at 43cm. Please give me your honest opinion whether to keep or not.

(This post was edited by HWONG on Jun 12, 2007, 5:10 PM)

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Mohan Ghandi
Member

Jun 13, 2007, 10:06 PM

Post #23 of 69 (4576 views)
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Re: [HWONG] HWONG'S Momotaro Eagle Bloodline Tosais [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello Wong,

Good body confirmation and snow white shiroji.

Hi plate and kiwa not defined as yet .

Pattern nothing extraordinary - tail part empty.

If it is a female and if it hits the 80cm bracket, it will be adorable. Only then it has the chance to win prizes – before that it will be a wild goose chase.

Male or/ female?

IF you want to give it away, would you like to exchange it for either of my males?
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

HWONG
Koi Addict

Jun 15, 2007, 12:52 AM

Post #24 of 69 (4518 views)
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Good body confirmation and snow white shiroji. Pattern nothing extraordinary - tail part empty.
If it is a female and if it hits the 80cm bracket, it will be adorable. Only then it has the chance to win prizes – before that it will be a wild goose chase.

This tosai was chosen for its body and the pattern will not so important when koi is big. As of now it is sexed a male But because it is a very nice koi, I told Vincent to keep it in his palce and resex again when bigger.... I hope it will be a mistaken identity like the Shiro I told you about...

Hi plate and kiwa not defined as yet . Sign of Tategoi mah

koinutx
Koi Lover

Jun 18, 2007, 8:58 AM

Post #25 of 69 (4405 views)
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nikey,

The body is not really yellow. maybe is the photo effect. When I place this fish with my Sakai Tosai, the skin is much whiter than the sakai tosai.

Mohan,

Will try to feed more frequent.....I've a momo's sanke (from vincent last shipment in Apr)that is of similar size is gaining length and girth at the same time. This kohaku just growing its length only. Make me worry whether it is a she become he! Pirate

(This post was edited by koinutx on Jun 18, 2007, 9:03 AM)

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