Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Koi Appreciation: Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke]

Home


	MAIN INDEX	SEARCH POSTS	WHO'S ONLINE	LOG IN

Home: KOI Talk: Koi Appreciation:
Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke]

1 2

View All

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Oct 15, 2006, 9:23 PM

Post #1 of 42 (4437 views)
Shortcut

Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke]	Can't Post

Hi There

What are your comments on this 28 cm Tosai which is a new addition to my pond?

Vincent of Kepong Aquarium brought in a few of Ryu bloodline tosais. 95cm Ryu was the 1st Runner Up in Rinyukai Koi Show held in Tokyo (2005).I noticed that he had divided them into various categories and the price differs accordingly.

After many years in this never-ending hobby, I observed that the dealers down here are competing among themselves and bringing in the best of the best .A few years ago hardly you can find these types of kois down here. This is a good development for local koi kichis .

Coming back to the Tosai , I felt that it had potential to grow big with good skeletal structure and balanced pattern and good Shiroji . The sumis are hidden and one is appearing near the shoulder, which is a must for Sankes. Further, Vincent recommended this for my pond. However, my eyes caught up with another beautiful Maruten sanke but it was already ‘booked’. I hope if Vincent is following this thread he can post a pix of the Maruten Tosai for everybody to share.

Koi kichis Wong and Ng who were with me snapped a few . Hope they will post their choice for our consumption.

Tosai

Mother

HKK
Mohan.
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

(This post was edited by Mohan Ghandi on Oct 15, 2006, 9:30 PM)

Attachments:

IMG_6942.JPG (34.2 KB)

LastScan.jpg (25.1 KB)

Gouri
Koi Lover

Oct 16, 2006, 8:21 AM

Post #2 of 42 (4398 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Mohan Ghandi] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

The mother is exceptional!

I guess this little guy has a long way to go yet! But will be interesting to see how he/she develops!

Knowing who the mother is, I'm sure most people would have snapped this one up.

What I love about the mother is, not only her stunning body form, but the bright shiorji of her face.

Wonderful! Angelic

kohaku_doitsu
Koi Lover

Oct 16, 2006, 1:04 PM

Post #3 of 42 (4367 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Mohan Ghandi] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mohan,
very nice sanke, definetely a keeper Smile

s_clan
Koi Addict

Oct 16, 2006, 1:23 PM

Post #4 of 42 (4365 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Mohan Ghandi] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Mohan Ghandi....

Nice.....mommy and baby.... Tongue

Any guess to the tosai's sex? My guess is that it's a male...

With regards, Jarvis

I LOVE THE COLOUR ORANGE
----------------------------------------------------------
1 Kohaku (male)
1 Doitsu Kohaku (female)
1 Taisho Sanke (male)
1 Asagi
1 Kujaku
1 Sakura Ogon
1 Tancho Sanke
1 Karasugoi
1 Ki Matsuba
----------------------------------------------------------

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Oct 16, 2006, 8:16 PM

Post #5 of 42 (4331 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Gouri] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes the mother is wonderful.
What induced me to bring it home was the mother & the Momo bloodline.
I can envisage that,like most of us, you are looking forward to its development- I will keep
you all posted as it develops.

H K K
Mohan..
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Oct 16, 2006, 8:25 PM

Post #6 of 42 (4330 views)
Shortcut

Re: [kohaku_doitsu] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello K D & S CLAN,

Thanks for your comments.
According to the dealer it is guaranteed a female .

H K K
Mohan.
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

dechoong
Member

Oct 17, 2006, 3:41 AM

Post #7 of 42 (4296 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Mohan Ghandi] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mohan,

Quote

According to the dealer it is guaranteed a female

How does the dealer guarantee it's a female when the koi is too young to sex? Crazy

-Dennis

koi@kit
Senior Member

Oct 17, 2006, 12:01 PM

Post #8 of 42 (4266 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Mohan Ghandi] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mohan..

very good speciment.. very good body structure. skin quality also good.. shud b a jumbo in ur 300 ton pond..

i think its a female coz the pec fin is more soft, male koi tend to have thick rough pec fin IMHO...

please do keep us update. many thanks

rgds
kit

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Oct 17, 2006, 12:12 PM

Post #9 of 42 (4264 views)
Shortcut

Re: [dechoong] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Dennis,
According to the dealer he says he is confident that it is a female.
I say guarantee bcus he promised to replace it if it turns out to be a male.

After making my successful bid for the Maruyama tosai at the SPKC,I asked
the breeder about the sex & he confidently said that it is a female.
Further,when we purchased the Omoo Showa tosais during our trip to
Japan Omoo san was confident that it is a female but after about 2 hours or
so, he made a promise to change it if happens to be a male. From this ,I gather
that the experienced Breeder/ Dealer has a way of determining the sex BUT
the guarantee shows that they are not cent percent certain. When we purchase
tosais we have to take a little RISK.

I have my own way of determiing the sex -I look at the body shape, the pectoral fins,
the anus,( if the dealer is cooperative try and squeeze out the spermatoza) & feel
the gill plate,face & fins & the behavior of the fry.

H K K
MOHAN
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

HWONG
Koi Addict

Oct 17, 2006, 4:52 PM

Post #10 of 42 (4238 views)
Shortcut

Re: [dechoong] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dennis, I think the breeders know more than they admit. During one heavy drinking session, a Japanese breeder let out that they are 70% certain even when the kois are below 20cm!. I believe it may be even higher. They probably let through those females tosais so that we will be encouraged to try our luck buying tosais. If they kept all the females, they wudnt be able to sell the male tosais, that's for sure. Wink

dechoong
Member

Oct 18, 2006, 12:43 AM

Post #11 of 42 (4198 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Mohan Ghandi] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mohan,

Thanks for the clarification. It's good to have the dealer offering such assurances. I do remember TanSL's Momo kohaku was thought to be a female and it turn out to be a male. Anyway, it is an affordable means to acquire a genuine tategoi abeit with some risk as the koi is just a young yearling... any bigger and with its sex determined you'll have to dig a lot deeper into your pocket Wink

.

Cheers,
Dennis

dechoong
Member

Oct 18, 2006, 1:11 AM

Post #12 of 42 (4195 views)
Shortcut

Re: [HWONG] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Hwong,

Haven't seen you on the forum for a while. I think you've mentioned about the 70% probability in another post and I do think it's quite true... otherwise it would be near impossible to cull and differentiate the tategoi from the tateshita.

I've recently acquired 2 very young yearlings (a kohaku and a sanke) from Yamamatsu farm (Matsunosuke). They are among a very limited number handpicked personally by Toshio Sakai himself supposedly from his tategoi pond, which basically means it is not for open sale. These yearlings are non-coloured (ie. not spirulina enhanced) and their hi is very light. However, even at such young age (average 10-12cm) it is quite easy to tell they've got superb body frame. The 2 yearlings are doing very well in my pond so far and their growth rate has been pretty amazing. I think they can double their original size in 2 months. Can't wait to see how these 2 will turn out Cool

Cheers,
Dennis

HWONG
Koi Addict

Oct 18, 2006, 2:55 PM

Post #13 of 42 (4149 views)
Shortcut

Re: [dechoong] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dennis, As they say, If one has nothing to contribute, better keep quiet Tongue

I type a long reply baout the male female in response, stepped aside for the office cleaner to clean my desk are, cma e bak everything gone! Mad

To make it short, I wasnt referring to quality. My take is even if the breeder can pick out all the females, he will throw into the "tateshita" (usaually males)basket, females that are of lower quality to be sold off at tosai. At least we get to tikam and try our luck. If not, very tikam get batang, we will not bother to tikam anymore! Wink

Dennis, if you had paid big money for the Yamamatsu tosais, and the breeder says it is female, it is most likely so. My friend has a very good Sanke from that farm. I really like the quality and the mascular body. It has a different characteristic from the traditional long bodied Matsunosuke.

larz1
Koi Kichi

Oct 18, 2006, 8:24 PM

Post #14 of 42 (4121 views)
Shortcut

Re: [HWONG] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

From what I've been able to gather from others far more experienced than myself the crispness or softness of the finish in young fish plays a role in the breeders confidence level as well as body shape at a young age. Young males tend to have a "harder" superficial look rather than the softer deep look of a female. The better finished they look to a novice, the more likely they are male.

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Oct 18, 2006, 11:01 PM

Post #15 of 42 (4108 views)
Shortcut

Re: [koi@kit] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Koi @ Kit,

Your post had brought some Brunei sunshine to the forum.

I hope your predictions come through!

H K K
Mohan
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Oct 18, 2006, 11:08 PM

Post #16 of 42 (4106 views)
Shortcut

Re: [dechoong] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Dennis,

I understand that Atari brought in some Matsunosuke tosai-is yours from that batch?

What about posting them for our consumption?
H K K
Mohan
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

dechoong
Member

Oct 19, 2006, 2:38 AM

Post #17 of 42 (4094 views)
Shortcut

Re: [HWONG] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Hwong,

Big money or not, I think it's relative to what one's willing to pay. But for these 12cm Yamamatsu yearlings, they certainly don't come cheap. To the non-kichi, they'll probably think I'm crazy Laugh

.

Cheers,
Dennis

Gouri
Koi Lover

Oct 20, 2006, 8:43 AM

Post #18 of 42 (3991 views)
Shortcut

Re: [dechoong] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

So how much would you pay for a tosai like this?

Koimann
Koi Lover

Oct 26, 2006, 12:11 AM

Post #19 of 42 (3832 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Gouri] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Tosais of this quality dont come cheap.Heres my selection from this batch.....

Attachments:

Momo Tosai.jpg (11.1 KB)

kemeer
Member

Oct 26, 2006, 9:26 AM

Post #20 of 42 (3803 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Koimann] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Koimann,

Handsome looking tategoi you got there. This one would surely fetch a lot of dosh then.. Laugh

How is the kohaku doing??

Koimann
Koi Lover

Oct 26, 2006, 12:28 PM

Post #21 of 42 (3782 views)
Shortcut

Re: [kemeer] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kemeer,
U mean the kohaku on my avatar? Doing very well 53cm now and slowly putting on girth.

Mohan Ghandi
Member

Nov 2, 2006, 10:05 PM

Post #22 of 42 (3588 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Koimann] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello Kolman,

You got a beautiful specimen from the batch - I remember seeing it.

The pattern is very vivid. What I like most is the little hi mark on the cheek . It is considered as a charming
point & it will obviously attract the judges in a show. Your koi reminds me of my dream kohaku which also
had a similar mark on the face & albeit it was only 6o over cm then , the head judge told me it was the
best koi in his opinion. I have said it many times- good things are not easily forgotten. The one point of
concern is the appearance of sumi & the type. If it appears in the shoulder & it is prominent you must be lucky.
In this juncture it is good noting that for a modern Sanke it should have a good kohaku pattern with only about
six sumi marks.

Well. I hope you can post your dream koi as it develops so that we can learn & compare.
I hope the others who snapped this specimen can contribute as well. Otherwise what is the
purpose of this Forum?

H K K
Mohan
Hkk
Mohan. Cool

Tan Lee King
Member

Nov 2, 2006, 11:31 PM

Post #23 of 42 (3578 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Mohan Ghandi] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Hello Mohan,
Can you also comment on what is the best size of the sumi and where is the best location apart from the shoulder? Do they have to space out equally and of the same size? What is the preference between block and pebble size?

Tan Lee King - At last I found someone who share my sentiment on modern Sanke that the lesser the sumi the better it is. Blush

Koimann
Koi Lover

Nov 5, 2006, 10:47 PM

Post #24 of 42 (3451 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Mohan Ghandi] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mohan,
Will do as soon as I get some pictures.She(female) will be coming to me next week.Heard about 30cm now.

Koimann
Koi Lover

Nov 6, 2006, 3:55 PM

Post #25 of 42 (3405 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Koimann] Momotaro Ryu’s Tosai [Sanke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Heres an updated picture of the sanke taken last week...

Attachments:

Ryu sanke tosai.jpg (19.3 KB)

1 2

View All

Search for (options)

Back to Koi.com.my Main Page

Disclaimer Privacy Statement
Copyright 2001~ 2002 Hileytech Sdn Bhd , All Rights Reserved.
No part of the forum postings can be copied without prior permission from Hileytech Sdn Bhd and the Author of the Posting.
For comments and Suggestion, Please contact the Webmaster at koi@hileytech.com