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Sakai Koi Auction "wish list"

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kemeer
Member

Oct 6, 2008, 1:53 PM

Post #1 of 27 (829 views)
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Sakai Koi Auction "wish list"	Can't Post

Hi guys,

Selamat Hari Raya,

Was bored @ work since no one was around, so i made a spent the day koi surfing Tongue

. Mind sharing your opinions on the wish list that i've compiled. Sly

Cheers

Amirol Misli Cool

kemeer
Member

Oct 6, 2008, 1:55 PM

Post #2 of 27 (827 views)
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Re: [kemeer] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Selections are purely based on my personal taste of Pattern & Body.

TOP 10 Kohaku;

kemeer
Member

Oct 6, 2008, 1:56 PM

Post #3 of 27 (825 views)
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TOP 10 Sanke;

kemeer
Member

Oct 6, 2008, 1:57 PM

Post #4 of 27 (823 views)
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TOP 10 Showa;

thiamhwa
Member / Moderator

Oct 6, 2008, 2:41 PM

Post #5 of 27 (803 views)
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Re: [kemeer] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi kemeer,

My choice:-

1)Kohaku - 105 - Symbol 2

2)Sanke - 160 - Shining Rose

3)Showa - 63 - Olive no Uta

kemeer
Member

Oct 6, 2008, 10:57 PM

Post #6 of 27 (712 views)
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Re: [thiamhwa] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi thiamhwa,

nice choices you've made there. i particularly like the kohaku you chosen #105. Very flowery as some may describe it.

#63 showa i should agree is also very2 good.......

ikoi
Koi Lover

Oct 7, 2008, 2:05 AM

Post #7 of 27 (687 views)
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Re: [kemeer] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kemeer,

My wish would be No.172. Wink

Cheers,
iKoi

koi@kit
Senior Member

Oct 7, 2008, 8:25 AM

Post #8 of 27 (666 views)
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Re: [kemeer] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi cifu kemeer..

selamat hari raya to u and ur family...

my choice from ur pick will be - kohaku 105, sanke 128 and showa 21...

ikankoiku
Koi Lover

Oct 7, 2008, 9:05 AM

Post #9 of 27 (660 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Morning guys,

This is good!! As a new comer, I always struggle to id which is the best quality. From reading, they will tell you what to and not to choose without pic of koi as an example. So this is like a practical exercise.

As for me,
Kohaku: 142 then 177 then 105

Sanke: 128 then 139

Showa: 21 then 22

What are the flaws for kohaku 142 and 177? It seems everyone like 105, it is good for me to learn on your angle and experience.

Cheers

chester
Koi Lover

Oct 7, 2008, 9:38 AM

Post #10 of 27 (646 views)
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Re: [ikankoiku] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Pattern and bone structure of 105 seems similar to the 1st GC runner up of ZNA Malaysia show earlier this year Wink

but that one is Matsue kohaku.

cheers

thiamhwa
Member / Moderator

Oct 7, 2008, 9:55 AM

Post #11 of 27 (638 views)
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Re: [ikankoiku] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi ikankoiku,

Koi appreciation is very subjective to the eye of every individual koi hobbyist.
Every hobbyists will have their own opinion and predictions on how the koi will
turn out in future. Having said that, there are always certain basic guidelines to
follow in a koi pattern as to why certain pattern appear so pleasing in our eyes.
Once, you have understood those guidelines, you will be able to appreciate the
koi's beauty better.

Actually, the other more important point is regarding the koi bloodlines which is
an even more complex subject to learn because there aren't any books written
on this. If anyone has come across any books explaining the different koi
bloodlines from the different koi farms etc, please share with us here. Thank you.

Now, back to why I like Kohaku 105. Generally, all these auction koi has good body
conformation, good skin quality, good Kiwa & Sashi and excellent Beni & Shiroji
quality. Nevertheless, there are some which stood out better because it has a
better head structure with high back hump and broad shoulder and thick tail tube
which may indicate that these koi will have the better potential to growth into
jumbo size with very powerful and masjestic status in future.

My personal preference for koi 105 from kemeer's selection is the very striking
unique large Beni pattern on the shoulder which stood out better as compared
with the other koi. I also like the striking head pattern with the unsual 'U' shape
sticking downward. This 'U' shape on the head has in fact balance with the weak
'U' odome Beni at the tail tube. Wish I could own anyone of these beauty oneday
but now have to be contented with day dreaming only Unsure

.

Best Regards,
Thiam Hwa

(This post was edited by thiamhwa on Oct 7, 2008, 9:59 AM)

kemeer
Member

Oct 7, 2008, 10:54 AM

Post #12 of 27 (625 views)
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Re: [ikoi] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi ikoi

,

glad you can join us in this selection pratice. i can see that you have chosen koi w/ body volume. Good choice!

Mind sharing what other criterias would you prefer in your perfect koi.... Sly

kemeer
Member

Oct 7, 2008, 11:24 AM

Post #13 of 27 (615 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi and Thanks for the greetings kit Smile

,

Happy that you can also join us. Good choice on the kohaku #105 and particularly the sanke #128. Sanke #128 appears to have very clean shiroji and sumi is positioned very nicely as well.

Showa # 21 although, i am begining to have doubts as i missed the multiple windows on the "hi" around the dorsal fins. Could be a minus when bringing to koi shows..... but still a very nice piece....

mind sharing which sanke would most likely fetch the highest bid, and why??

thanks

koi@kit
Senior Member

Oct 7, 2008, 11:39 AM

Post #14 of 27 (610 views)
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Re: [kemeer] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi cifu kemeer..

same as Thiam Hwa i like the kohaku bcoz of her thick hi and great structure, also the large patch of hi on the shoulder..

i wont worry soo much abt the showa as i hv confident she will imrpove in the future.. i have a few dainichi showa which i brought in as tosai, now nisssai, improve alot now, of course i learn alot from them too.. of course sakai and dainichi can b compare as it wont b fair.....as jacky told me, keep them and feed them well...

price of the koi will depends on how many dealer like the koi, the more people bid for it the higher the price will b.. soo i cant comment much also in this case... Unsure

kemeer
Member

Oct 7, 2008, 11:46 AM

Post #15 of 27 (606 views)
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Re: [ikankoiku] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi ikankoiku,

thanks for joining. Smile

.

I agree with what thiamhwa has emphasized.

Koi selection all depends on what a hobbyist preferences is and at which level he/she is looking at. There are although standards to follow when you you are looking for koi that can grow Jumbo. I used to have a diagram showing what traits to look for in selecting a good tosai that have stronger chances to grow big would have been of great help to you. Unsure

. Perhaps kit can post the diagram here.. thanks bro.. Smile

kemeer
Member

Oct 7, 2008, 11:54 AM

Post #16 of 27 (603 views)
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Re: [thiamhwa] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi thiamhwa,

thanks for your valuable input.. much appreciated... Smile

Btw, i've been going through the sanke# 97. would you think that it can turn out to be as good as the Migita oyagoi from Mutoh i posted earlier?? Pattern shows alot of resemblances to each other...

ikankoiku
Koi Lover

Oct 7, 2008, 1:44 PM

Post #17 of 27 (558 views)
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Re: [kemeer] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kemeer & Thiamhwa,

Thanks for the tips. This is a good practise. Certainly many people will learn from your comments.

As for no 97 IMHO as new comer, he is on the thin border of kohaku and sanke. For sure the body and pattern are great but the sumi on the aft and fwd left(fr our view) tend to dissapear. As the hi on the left head is growing thicker(just like the right side), it might looses all the sumi and end up having sumi vaguely on the right and and a dot on the left tail. But the shiroji is superb.

But for Y100 000, I will go for it. Cool

Ada chance ka?

thiamhwa
Member / Moderator

Oct 7, 2008, 1:57 PM

Post #18 of 27 (550 views)
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Re: [kemeer] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi kemeer,

To be honest, judging koi from photograph certainly do not do justice to these
beautiful koi because by just looking at the blue background between the 2 pixs.
the Big Rose Sanke off-spring will definitely stand out better due to the picture
brightness quality. Hence, the colour of the Beni and Shiroji on this koi shine
whereas the Migita koi photo looks rather dull.

Although the overall pattern for both of these koi has some resemblances due to
the large area of shiroji in the middle section and the 2 nos. of small Beni patches
on either side of the body, to make comparable judgement at this point is also not
fair because the Sumi on Big Rose Sanke has not even appear.

Nonetheless, if I will have to choose between the 2 koi, I will go for the off-spring
of Big Rose Sanke. WHY! Firstly, the reputable bloodline of the parent koi.
Secondly, the Beni pattern distribution is more together in the over all balance
on this koi as compared to the Migita koi whereby the Beni pattern are rather
scattered, IMHO. Thirdly, I think the very small Sumi dot found on the back near
the front of the dorsal fin on this Big Rose Sanke off-spring appear to consist of
black ink-jek one scale maruzome sumi which is highly appreciated when evluating
Sumi quality nowadays. On the other hand, there are only a couple patches of Sumi
on the Migita koi by the dorsal fin area which have excellent quality. The others
although well placed in the overall Sumi pattern balance are not as pleasing, IMHO. Maybe, these Sumi will consolidate further to bring out the sharp Sumi edging on
the scale.

Lastly, the pectoral fins shown on the Big Rose Sanke appear to be perfectly
balance whereas in the case of the Migita koi, I am not sure whether it is due to
the photograph angle taken or not. It seem like both the pectoral fins are uneven.

These are just some of my personal observations for discussion. Jangan marah-marah lah, kemeer. Sekarang masih ' HARI RAYA' mood. Wink

Best Regards,
Thiam Hwa

water
Koi Lover

Oct 7, 2008, 2:14 PM

Post #19 of 27 (542 views)
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Re: [ikankoiku] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

This is one interesting koi. No doubt there is a little risk on the sumi development but I don't think the sumi will disappear. In fact, I am of the opinion that the sumi will get stronger. Important is to look for little sumis, tsuibo sumi, no matter how vague within the large patch of shiroji... Once there are sumis, the overall pattern will look very different. The Hi/Sashi is extremely good.

I am sure ... very very sure.... that 100,000 yen is not enough... not even 200,000 Yen.... that my personal view. Unless, the financial market have gotten into the pockets of the many dealers and the hobbyists that they are representing, this piece can go for ... hmmm.., I have the number in my head but don't think it is nice to influence people.

As for ikankoi's study of the kois here.... Since you are looking at top grade auction and proven bloodline, the difference among this koi can be narrowed to very personal likes and dislikes. Your choice of kohaku is equally good... and since some of these are siblings, the difference can lie in the pattern - where it is highly subjective. The large hi patch on the shoulder of 105 is definitely a well-liked point and when this koi opens up its girth, this patch of hi becomes important as it stretches down to the left and right sides. The pattern on the head is a subjective matter. Some kois, even siblings can grow at different rate - fast early developer or slower... and hence, the "stretch" of the hi can be different.... but if they are sibling, there is always a strong possiblity that the hi will finish with same quality eventually... given an equal environment to grow.

thiamhwa
Member / Moderator

Oct 7, 2008, 2:18 PM

Post #20 of 27 (541 views)
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Re: [ikankoiku] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi ikankoiku,

This is only a 2 year old and when compared against the Migita mother koi
which is a mature koi and easily more than 5 years old. Hence, it is not fair
to compare the body conformation between the 2 koi at this current stage.
Having said so, this Big Rose Sanke off-spring has all the traits for eg. big
head structure and broad shoulder etc. to indicate that it will growth to
jumbo size in future.

This Sakai koi is still very young and hence the Sumi i.e. black colour on the
body has not even surface up yet. But from what we can see in the other koi
posted for eg. Shining Rose, I think the appearance of Maruzome Sumi i.e.
ink-jet black appearing on the scalloped scale which was popularised by
Isawa Sakai will show up in future, in my humble opinion. Thank you.

Best Regards,
Thiam Hwa

(This post was edited by thiamhwa on Oct 7, 2008, 3:25 PM)

PH8
Koi Lover

Oct 7, 2008, 6:47 PM

Post #21 of 27 (472 views)
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Re: [water] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Actually,the hi on No. 97 looks pretty finished to me, although the sumi has yet to appear. Which comes to the point that it is so difficult to raise a champion sanke/showa because it is exceedingly difficult to peak the hi and the sumi at the same time. Just for an example, the body of a tri-coloured koi could peak at 85cm but the hi peaked at 60cm and the sumi peaked at 75cm. So it is possible that at 75cm when the sumi peaks, the hi is already on its way down, and at 85cm when the body peaks, both the sumi and the hi are on the way down. It takes really good koi keeping skills to be able to peak everything at the same time. I think some of it is genetic though.

Cheers,
Paul

(This post was edited by PH8 on Oct 7, 2008, 6:51 PM)

ikankoiku
Koi Lover

Oct 7, 2008, 8:30 PM

Post #22 of 27 (455 views)
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Re: [thiamhwa] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

dear thiamhwa & water,

Thanks for the comments. I think to reach your level of observation, I need 5 more years at least Wink

. Or to expedite, I just get an unpaid leave, bertapa and bagging for volunteer work in Sakai farm. Sly

Is it possible for kasane-zumi being wipe out by hi or beni? As I have seen it in "before and after" pic of kois. Not like tsubo-zumi which is more less permanently to stay.

But how much actually u go for that koi, roughly from pass auction? If more that 1 000 000 yen then I might try plan B to get it. Anybody knows whether Mr Sakai's daughter or grand daughter looking for Malaysian boyfriend? Angelic

Cheers

DavidSoon
Koi Lover

Oct 8, 2008, 12:56 AM

Post #23 of 27 (412 views)
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Re: [kemeer] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kemeer . Smile

Nice Migita Sanke you have .
Just out of curiosity , can I know what's your salination level in your Pond ?? Smile

Hope you don't mind me asking this question . Tongue

Cheers
David

kemeer
Member

Oct 8, 2008, 12:18 PM

Post #24 of 27 (332 views)
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Re: [DavidSoon] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Guruji Dave Wink

,

Sorry if the way i posted the comparisons of the Sakai Sanke and Migita Oyagoi was misleading in anyway. I do not own the Migita sanke that was posted. hehehe.... although i'd really wish i could, still, it is way above my level as for now. Cool

.

Regards

Amirol Misli Sly

kemeer
Member

Oct 8, 2008, 12:37 PM

Post #25 of 27 (323 views)
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Re: [ikankoiku] Sakai Koi Auction "wish list" [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi ikankoiku Smile

,

"koi hobby is a never-ending learning process" so don't worry la. Everyone here started from scratch as well.

As for # 97 sanke, i am with thiamhwa and water here, that this koi will definetly not loose its sumi, but can only improve in the future. I also suspect that that this piece will easily pass the Y300 000 bill.

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