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What pattern valued highest?

chong
Koi Lover

Nov 4, 2002, 12:34 PM

Post #1 of 14 (1437 views)
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What pattern valued highest?	Can't Post

Hi everybody ,

Just wondering how hobbyist prefer when selecting Kohaku .

Assuming hi & white are equally good , what pattern will you choose in sequence ?

2 , 3 or 4 step , zig-zag , maruten etc .

Just ask for 'song-song' only .

Smile

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Nov 5, 2002, 11:39 AM

Post #2 of 14 (1405 views)
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Re: [chong] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi chong

Very subjective question lah! Wink

It's all individual preference. One man's meat is another's poison! Wink

Anyway, it is not easy to find a high quality yondan or 4 step jumbo kohaku. Inazuma or lightning pattern is also a rare gem. More common ones are nidan and sandan. My preference is to own a inazuma kohaku (can only dream, of course! Wink

)

This is my 'song-song' opinion only!! Wink

Johnson

mattloui
Koi Lover

Nov 5, 2002, 2:15 PM

Post #3 of 14 (1398 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

just for song-song sake, i understand from the koi experts that the pattern as looked from the top should be balanced from both sides at the dorsal fin irrespective whether it is nidan, sandan or "pandan".
in other words it should be pleasing to the eyes when both are viewed as one.
CHEERS

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Nov 11, 2002, 9:50 PM

Post #4 of 14 (1339 views)
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Re: [chong] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chong,

I was told that body shape constitue 50% during a koi competition, pattern comes after. This explains why so many grand champion have simple 2 or 3 step patterns.

So...if it makes you 'song', by all means go for the exotic patterns but make sure the body shape is good.

TanSL
Member

Nov 14, 2002, 1:21 PM

Post #5 of 14 (1298 views)
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Re: [chong] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

Over here we go ga-ga over 2,3, 4 step and inazuma patterns, while the Japanese seems to find them a little too common for championship. I've never come across any affordable (for me lah) Koi with 2,3 or 4 steps.

I had a bad experience as a beginner. I was told by Koi shop to choose a Koi with inazuma pattern, but I insist on buying something else which i liked better, at the same price...well, that's a real beginner wasting out on beginner's luck. Crazy

Cheers,

TanSL

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Nov 25, 2002, 11:08 PM

Post #6 of 14 (1238 views)
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Re: [TanSL] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

TanSL,

That's strange because if everything else equals, the nicer pattern one will command higher price than the not so nice pattern one...So if they are the same price, could it be that your choice had some other quality that the inazuma one didn't have.

Cheers,
Patrick

TanSL
Member

Nov 26, 2002, 1:17 PM

Post #7 of 14 (1217 views)
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Re: [patrick123] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Patrick,

That's the problem with a beginner like myself. The Koi shop was such nice people that they offer same price for any of those imported Koi that have just arrived. During that time, I had no idea a Koi with Inazuma patterned Koi was preferred. When the shop assistant told me I should buy that Koi, I was telling myself I would want to choose something else I call my own preference. Well, I ended up by a Koi with the pattern I like best, but something which any experienced person will laugh at, if compared to the suggested Koi. Unsure

Anyway, a good lesson learned. Any beginners should just learn more, including appreciating Koi.

Cheers.

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Nov 26, 2002, 1:34 PM

Post #8 of 14 (1216 views)
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Re: [TanSL] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

TanSL,

You are not along. Actually, it is not easy to learn to appreciate koi. There are so many different types, and many different criterias. In the end, we all make mistakes and learn from our mistakes.

In any case, it is important to buy koi from a honest and reputable dealer so that we can get the good honest advise from the dealer before we buy.

Cheers,
Patrick

TanSL
Member

Nov 27, 2002, 2:13 PM

Post #9 of 14 (1183 views)
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Re: [patrick123] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Patrick,

Fully agree with you. Hope other beginners do not have to go through the same pain.

I learned a lot from this Forum. Must thank all the ppl contributing their knowledge.

Cheers.

HWONG
Koi Addict

Nov 27, 2002, 6:16 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1172 views)
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Re: [TanSL] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have a theory on why the Japanese koi breeders are pushing very hard to convince the koi world to strive for body shape, skin and color instead of pattern. If you analyse it, they are very smart businessmen. I believe there are more kois that have a combo of the 1st three qualities than those with nice patterns. If koi keepers insist on having nice patterns, the koi breeders will have plenty of unsold stock. SO why not change the consumers thinking.

If I am not mistaken the folks at ZNA shows place more emphasis on pattern while the Koi breeders' shows emphasize the 1st three qualities. Even our dealers are pushing body and skin rather than pattern. If you observe their vats, it is the poor pattern kois that remain unsold besides the skinny male kois.

What say you?

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Nov 29, 2002, 11:46 AM

Post #11 of 14 (1151 views)
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Re: [HWONG] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hwong,

You have a good point. If money is no object, then everyone will go for all 4 of the criterias and only choose koi with good body shape, color, skin and pattern.

But if we have only limited budget, what is the criteria that we should look for? I agree that good patterns is the hardest to come by where as the other three are basically inherited from the good bloodline and with good environment like water condition and food, will be able to replicate.

I guess everyone likes to have Miss Universe to be his wife, but not everyone can get it. Laugh

Cheers,
Patrick

TanSL
Member

Nov 29, 2002, 1:33 PM

Post #12 of 14 (1145 views)
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Re: [HWONG] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Kinda agree with you. I had experience with a some dealers here (some are very nice ppl) who would insist I go for the body. Pattern ? They will almost always stare and say "Not so important lah, you are not going to grow them for competition what ? You want good pattern ? they are very very expensive and difficult to find".

I've always wondering where are the high quality Kois goes to. My other theory is, they are going to countries that are paying more. Well, I am definitely seeing a lot of high quality Kois on UK based websites.

Yeah, since you mention about the poor unsold fellas. Wonder what happens to them ? Unsure

chong
Koi Lover

Nov 29, 2002, 2:57 PM

Post #13 of 14 (1140 views)
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Re: [patrick123] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi ,

Where got kois that able to fulfil all the mentioned criterias, yet within all people's budget .

Somehow , I agree that body is higher priorty when selecting kois. I have a kohaku which has a so-so& plain pattern but with strong & solid body compare to others with nicer patterns but slimmer in body shape . Funny thing is this ugly fella draw most attention from visitors [not koi pro lah!]. Tongue

But of course , when selecting among a group of small kois , where every koi's body is almost same , then pattern become one's guideline .

This time around , many new arrivals . Have a plan to invest for a small koi but from a reputable bloodline. [instead of buying 5 kois , accumulate this budget into 1 koi] .Raya holidays is a good hunting time

Smile

Raf Segers
Koi Lover

Dec 3, 2002, 3:45 AM

Post #14 of 14 (1101 views)
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Re: [chong] What pattern valued highest? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hai Chong,

I dont know very mutch about the paterns as i start to learn, but I got my koi from a local expert and he has koi that have prices more than 35000 US dollars. Unsure

Verry nice koi, but for the most of us not affortable.

However he has also nice, smaller koi (125 US dollars) and he told me an advice i like to keep in mind " The value of a koi have to be the value of your relation with the koi and not te relation with championships..." he wanted to say that it's not so important to have the best supper koi but the koi that means the most to you because... are we perfect?

I just have buyed two koi's : a nice sanke and a shiro utsuri.

The Sanke is from Shintaro and the Shiro Utsuri from Sekiki Ikarashi. They are propably not "The" showkoi but it was like love on first site Wink

, so i'm a happy guy.However i keep on looking for a nice Tancho (thats my most deep wish what koi conserns ).

Hopefully you find your dream!

Happy koikeeping!

Raf

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