Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Koi Appreciation: a couple of small kohakus

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a couple of small kohakus

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Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 10:12 AM

Post #1 of 57 (2193 views)
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a couple of small kohakus	Can't Post

Hallo.
I'm new here.
I recently purchased 2 kohakus about 20-25cm in Singapore. I'm still very much in the learning curve so seeking others' input and comments on the fish. I am hoping they will grow >60cm.
thank you.

(This post was edited by Soelistyo on Dec 5, 2002, 10:37 AM)

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kohaku1.jpg (37.6 KB)

mattloui
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 11:12 AM

Post #2 of 57 (2184 views)
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Re: [Soelistyo] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

i think the Hi colours stand out quite nicely and the white seems snow white. the shape also indicates that these kohakus may grow fast.

how much u pay for them.
CHEERS

dttk
Senior Member

Dec 5, 2002, 11:12 AM

Post #3 of 57 (2184 views)
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Re: [Soelistyo] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, you do have a nice pair of Kohaku. Top one shows Inazuma (lightning)pattern and the bottom one, Nidan (two-step)pattern. Only slight setback is the Hi on the head covers one eye in both koi. Otherwise they are great as the Hi is generally well balanced. Smile

Always friendly :)

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 11:25 AM

Post #4 of 57 (2179 views)
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Re: [mattloui] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Mattloui:
thank you for the input!
I paid SGD280 per piece or about USD150.
Probably could have got them for cheaper but I am leaving them to the dealer to bring up as I am testing his facilities. So I figured not worthwhile to save a few bucks against the risk of him losing motivation to take care of them.
I am aiming to construc a new pond in Jakarta early next year and hoping these 2 kois will be much larger by the time they move to their home. by the way, how do you get the feeling these kois may grow very fast? I am so hoping you are right! The bigger one (with the dot on the nose) I am more optimistic cause it's significantly larger than the rest of the kois there of same age. I do suspect the dot might disappear during growth, though i hope it doesn't.

dttk:
thanks for the encouragement! Looking back, there may have been a couple of others on offer which has better patterns or at least stretching further down the belly (better for future?) whereas the 2 i purchased may have a slightly "too finished" look for such small koi? Pattern is no doubt important as is color retention but my main hope for these 2 kohakus is that they will grow. Can't afford the jumbos, have to grow from small!

mattloui
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 11:50 AM

Post #5 of 57 (2176 views)
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Re: [Soelistyo] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Soelistyo

Price you paid seems to commensurate with quality.

well, about the growth rate, I picked this up from one of the threads where it was mentioned that a big head indicates potential jumbo koi. If i am not mistaken it was the koi maniac johnson who mentioned this- and his words are always good enough for me. Anyway, there are many factors ,or should i say conditions, which determines the growth of koi.

read all about overcrowding, depth of pond, quality/ingredient of koi food, frequency of water changes and of course water quality. these are prerequisites of good growth rate.

the koi experts here should be able to give further details- i am just making a passing remark as i am a beginner but a keen follower of this forum.
CHEERS

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 2:13 PM

Post #6 of 57 (2167 views)
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Re: [mattloui] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

noted. Yes, overcrowding is certainly a basic mistake and usually beginners like us do not pay aenough attention to this. I certainly consider myself very much a beginner but have had the experience of mistakes in the past (2 own ponds before the next one, and a couple of others at the in-laws' place) whereby "window shopping" becomes "purchasing trip" while conveniently forgetting about the impact of additional inches of koi to existing pond.

I also read somewhere in this forum (been lurking for a while) that the fish may grow if the proportion between shoulder width and width near tail area is still not proportionate.

anyway, i guess all this sensitivity and ability to such details will hopefully come with time. In my experience i have yet to grow kois over the 60cm mark (except for a couple of chagois which is not a fair benchmark i suppose) but i have a fairly good idea why that has happened and aim to correct such mistakes in this next pond.

are you in Malaysia or anywhere in this region? I travel around K.L / Penang quite regularly and wonder perhaps the price of imported kois there may be more competitive than Singapore? Afraid of buying in Jakarta because of recent koi herpes problem there and prices seem to be quite inflated compared to the range of choice. also worried might end up with old non-developing fish covered up as "new shipment".

TanSL
Member

Dec 5, 2002, 2:15 PM

Post #7 of 57 (2167 views)
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Re: [Soelistyo] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

Nice pair of Kohaku. I doubt the red dot (I think it is known as Maruten) will dissappear. Its nice on this Koi. I too believe it will grow fast given good condition (water, food, space,..) judging the size of its head. Very nice Hi on snowy white skin too on the Koi. Well, that's my humble opinion.

Cheers

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 2:42 PM

Post #8 of 57 (2164 views)
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Re: [TanSL] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

thank you TanSL.
I am indeed hoping the spot is a permanent hi on the koi. It adds some individuality. Also will make my job easier when i go back to the dealer 3 months later to identify them! Wink

the kois are put in a mud pond (a local equivalent of one, i guess!) of about 100 tonnes. problem is it's quite shallow (only 3.5 ft depth) so the surface area may be disproportionately large compared to the water volume (i suppose!). anyway, dealer says they ought to grow much faster there than in their clear pond, and i don't plan to go "enjoy" looking at the fish until they're bigger anyway so i figured what the heck why not give it a try. if it works i'll probably invest on a couple more kois.

cwnchong
Member

Dec 5, 2002, 2:45 PM

Post #9 of 57 (2164 views)
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Re: [mattloui] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Matt,

You are right big head indicate big species. I also noticed from my experience those with bigger heads and flat & wider mouth are the fast growers and big eaters too.

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 2:57 PM

Post #10 of 57 (2162 views)
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Re: [cwnchong] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

cwnchong, can you judge / comment from the pic can these 2 kois be considered to have big heads? (question sounds funny, doesn't it! Smile

)

mattloui
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 4:44 PM

Post #11 of 57 (2153 views)
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Re: [Soelistyo] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Selistyo

Well, i am known as a MCC-MALAYSIAN CHINESE CHRISTIAN and Matthias is also the name of the priest who baptised me a long time ago.

You do not sound like a beginner to me having ponds here and there. And you certainly know the limitation to growth rate.

Anyway, kois in KL are of quite good quality and the prices are equally reaonable. For your types of kois the price range should be between RM 500 to RM 1000 per piece dependng where you shop. If you are ever in Kl, please do not hesitate to visit the koi dealers -the names and adresses are shown in the main page. It is free market here, you buy what you think is the right price and you negotiate- the more you buy the more likely you get a bigger discount.

well, your kois seems to have large heads in comparison to the length- unless the angles of the photo misled me.

good luck with your koi hunting-one of the most exciting part of this hobby-now we know why beginners overstock.
CHEERS

Thorin
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 5:46 PM

Post #12 of 57 (2147 views)
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Thanks to this thread I've learned something new today Shocked

When I last saw koi with a big head I thought that doesn't look right Crazy

Silly me I could have a nice big koi by now instead of one that only grew an inch this year Blush

Thanks

Mike.
Location: England, Derbyshire.

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2002, 8:40 PM

Post #13 of 57 (2141 views)
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well, mattloui, if you're MCC then I'm an ICC (Indonesian CHinese Catholic) Wink

.

have liked koi since teenage and have brought up a few using very primitive and simple ponds - one using just a swiming pool sand filter which surprisingly kept the water crystal clear!

haven't had my own pond for the last 7 years now and in the meantime have been doing some reading and once in a while go purchase cheapish kois for fun for my father in law during buss trips in Japan. Now going to move back to Jakarta (been working in Spore) and ready to roll up my sleeves and get serious this time! of course, as serious as budget will allow me, at least. heh heh.

yeah man, don't you agree the best feeling in the world is when you bring home a couple of bags of kois and release them to your pond.

nice to talk to you and i certainly aim to take advantage of this wonderful forum to get further advice on choosing kois and on the pond project.

TanSL
Member

Dec 8, 2002, 1:01 PM

Post #14 of 57 (2117 views)
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Re: [Soelistyo] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Soelistyo,

I've been to Jakarta numerous times, asked people about Koi and only one knew...one of my customer. He told me there are some serious breeders in South of Jakarta, but has never brought me there or any shops selling Kois. So, are there lot of shops selling Koi in Jakarta ? Maybe you can share with us.

Cheers

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Dec 8, 2002, 6:31 PM

Post #15 of 57 (2112 views)
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Re: [TanSL] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

TanSL,
kois are actually quite a popular hobby in Jakarta. I've been living in Singapore for a few years so I'm not too up to date on the reputable shops there. I believe there are a few dealers who do bring in shipments once in a while but i doubt the selection would be as good as Singapore or K.L. If you are looking for local breeders yes there are but I have no idea what kind of success they have. Heard there are quite a few in the "puncak" (mountain) area a couple of hours away from Jakarta.
These days especially you may not find so many imported kois because of the recent ban on importing kois after the herpes problem. Wiped out one of my in law's ponds too stocked with imported kois. Frown

How often do you go to Jakarta? I will probably be better equipped to give you information sometime mid of next year after i've moved back and restarted my quest to have a good pond.

cwnchong
Member

Dec 9, 2002, 9:53 AM

Post #16 of 57 (2099 views)
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Re: [Soelistyo] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Soelistyo,
I agreed with Matt that your 2 babies has big head. regarding their mouths they are quite pointed & rounded. Compare between the 2, the lower ones has a flatter mouth. This may be due to the moment the photo is taken the mouth is slightly opened. If I'm not wrong the lower ones has more growth potential than the ones on the top.
I'm no expert, my experience is limited to my own collection. May be the expert can come in to assist.

lhchng
Koi Lover

Dec 9, 2002, 12:50 PM

Post #17 of 57 (2095 views)
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Re: [Soelistyo] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Soelistyo,

A pair of decent Kohaku. The lower has greater potential, Its large dorsal fin and tail tub is a good indication of future size, hopefully is a female (unfortunately cannot determine sex from the pic). Maruten spot on the head hopefully should grow larger as it grows to give this koi its own identity.

It will be interesting to see pic of this koi 2 years later.

TanSL
Member

Dec 9, 2002, 2:40 PM

Post #18 of 57 (2086 views)
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Hi,

Thanks for the info. I remembered now, there was a mention about Puncak area. No problem with waiting till you are back to Jakarta next year.

Back to your Kois, agree with lhchng. Sure would like to see how they turn out to be three months later when you visit them at their mud pond home, pics if possible...

Cheers

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Dec 10, 2002, 9:51 AM

Post #19 of 57 (2067 views)
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Re: [TanSL] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

cwnchong, lhchng, thank you for the opinions.

TanSL, ok, if you're curious to see their progress i will take more pictures in 3 months and post them for you. cheers!

TanSL
Member

Dec 11, 2002, 2:09 PM

Post #20 of 57 (2032 views)
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Re: [Soelistyo] a couple of small kohakus [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks. Will look forward to seeing them in 3 months.

Cheers

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Mar 24, 2003, 2:26 PM

Post #21 of 57 (1966 views)
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TanSL, 3 months now (time flies, eh?) but sorry the kois are still in the mud pond so no new pic yet.

the dealer was clearing out some other koi in the pond belonging to another customer and he told me they measured my 2 kohakus at the same time and they're now >30cm, which if true is quite satisfactory grwoth i must say. There are now only 4 kois in that mud pond, 3 of which are mine. I visited them a couple of times and threw food into the pond hoping to get a glimpse of them. well, that's exactly what i got as they dashed up to snatch the food, just a few glimpses Frown

. can't tell how big they are but they are certainly RED!

anyway, just an update and when pics are available I will post. meantime i am now thinking about putting that sanke i posted under "Johnson's kohaku" into this pond to take advantage of the wonderfully low stocking rate. that koi though cost a bomb (for my standard anyway Blush

) so I have to really consider. it's arriving end of this month.

scorpio168
Member

Mar 24, 2003, 3:43 PM

Post #22 of 57 (1956 views)
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Hi,

very nice pair of kohaku...

Bought from nippon koi?

Which breeder?

Cheers,

Aaron
Koi Koi Koi...

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Mar 24, 2003, 3:49 PM

Post #23 of 57 (1954 views)
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nope. Summer Koi. i only buy from them cause a) i can keep the koi at their pond until i ship them back to Indonesia for a small fee and b) Kok Hwee always buys me food when I spend the hours there. hahaha.

breeder is Nogami.

i recall you purchased quite a number of kois from them also (some other thread? some showas from Dainichi if i recall?). they have new stock coming in end of this month. getting any new fish?

scorpio168
Member

Mar 24, 2003, 3:54 PM

Post #24 of 57 (1953 views)
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Hi,

I remember that day when I buy those showa, Kok Ann share with us some Indonesian fruits...Dunno izzit you anot... Smile

U just bought recently? I never seen these kohaku there...

Ya, new stocks coming in soon...still considering... Smile

are you buying any new koi also?

Cheers,

Aaron
Koi Koi Koi...

Soelistyo
Koi Lover

Mar 24, 2003, 4:19 PM

Post #25 of 57 (1946 views)
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haha, nope, haven't brought them fruits yet so those weren't from me. maybe next time.

those 2 kohakus were bought in Dec last year, not recent shipment.

i was there on Friday just to visit my 4 small kois but as usual ended up adding one more to the collection, choosing from the photo/video they took from their last trip. I tell you when you have a whole afternoon to kill at their farm (i had 6 hours, to be exact!), loaded with a full pack of cigarettes to smoke and a credit card in your pocket, most of the time you will end up buying something. hahaha.

this time it's a 25cm sanke. but i will go see it when it arrives just to confirm it's what i expected. of course, paid already so i get first refusal, haha.

did you see the photos of the new shipment? there was an absolutely beautiful kohaku tosai - at least i thought so - from Matsunosuke (whom i thought were more famous for sankes). only 25 cm but very nice white skin (i'm a sucker for white/fair skin, including for kois hahaha). Kok Hwee didn't know the price, Koh Ann was in Jakarta for the show there. Kok Hwee told me if it's the same as the other tosais in that shipment i.e S$1,200, i should buy that fish. I told Kok Hwee I would take it if the price is anything up to S$2,000. So he called up his brother on his mobile and while talking to him on the phone looked at me with widened eyes and shook his head.

S$5000!! sigh. for a 25cm koi! sadly, out of my range.

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