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Are we doing this right?

xXKoiQueenXx
Koi Lover

May 11, 2006, 11:09 AM

Post #1 of 18 (1895 views)
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Are we doing this right?	Can't Post

Hi guys,

After owning koi for 2 years, my dad and I got our koi to spawn and well now we've ended up with around 400 (i can't count them all, but I'm guessing) fry in a 40-50 gal rubbermaid container.

We're doing frequent-ish water changes with a cup covered in nylon, then adding the water from the koi pond into the "nursery".

The fry just hatched on Sunday/Monday. Smile

As for food we have goldfish flakes that I made into a powder. How often should we be feeding them and how much? Today we gave them 2 pinches of the powder...is that enough?

How fast should they grow and how long do you think the 40-50g will last them until my dad builds them a pond?

Thanks! Laugh

Chelsea.

P.S. Some of the koi are yellow (well a LOT Of them are), but I've got some that are different color like black/silver...are these like...types? or do we have a different kind of fish with them since in our pond we have these red comets and a goldfish. Tongue

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zoul
Member

May 12, 2006, 5:54 AM

Post #2 of 18 (1876 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

sounds like you on the right track.... sort of ...
if you changing water with pond water you proberly won't have to feed them for a few days as most of the food the eat will be micrscopic like inflosoria (i bet i spelled that wrong ) but for a couple of days they live off the yolk sacs.

if your already feeding them with crumbled up flake food use it very sparingly as they will soon get constipated and thats not a good thing..

if you can find a clean source of dathnia that would be best but if not then you might have to get some brine shrimp eggs and hatch them to feed.dont try the frozen ones becouse they are just to big..

oh and you might consider an air pump and stone in your tank witch is a little small for that amount of babys ... do you not have a quarentine tank or even a kiddies paddling pool would hold more water..

if any of your babys are deformed it might be better to yuthanise them than to let them grow.. be vigolent also for ones that grow real fast as they may start to canabalise the smaller ones...

koi and gold fish can reproduce with each other and if you have some ugly gold fish like black moores the offspring well dosent bear thinking about yuk

larz1
Koi Kichi

May 12, 2006, 7:53 AM

Post #3 of 18 (1872 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

A few pointers for you.
Make sure the tub is well aerated, but no water pump/filter (the fry will get sucked into it Shocked

).
Using pond water is much better than tap water, but it would be best if the water had algae in it (yes, you WANT green water for fry). Algae is one of the main food sources for newly hatched fry. If your pond water is nice and clear just get another tub you can let it "age" in for a few days in direct sunlight so help it go green.
You can get brine shrimp (tiny microsopic little buggers) for them and liquifry at your local pet food supplier. It will be a little while before their digestive system can handle even flake food well.
Black and Yellow are the most common first colors to see appearing. They will change a lot over time so prepare to be surprized on a weekly basis.
Keep a sharp eye out for tobies (fast growers). They have an appetite for "sibling sushi". You'll need to separate them from the slower growers over the next few weeks.

xXKoiQueenXx
Koi Lover

May 12, 2006, 8:07 AM

Post #4 of 18 (1869 views)
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Re: [larz1] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

yeaa we have a green pond lol, not the clearest, so their waters green too :]

We have this air bar...its like a lot of airstones put together that makes a bar and it sits on the bottom of the water.

I can't tell if some are deformed because they're too small.

Well I just fed them...like 2 hours ago, but I don't want my babies getting constipated so I won't feed them that stuff till they get bigger Tongue

We'll keep a close eye on the "tobies" and we have 2 other big tubs that we can hold the bigger ones in as they grow. :]

I don't have a filter/water pump...knew the babies would be sure to get sucked up.

They're doing good so far...I have a LOT. I can't count them, but I'm sure there is more than 200.

Chelsea
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larz1
Koi Kichi

May 12, 2006, 7:18 PM

Post #5 of 18 (1858 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

It sounds like you're off to a pretty good start. Give them a few weeks before you worry about culling for deformities. Right now they're too small for my eye to tell much about them. Some of the weak ones will die on their own so be sure to keep the bodies cleared out. Dead fish consume more oxygen than live ones and poison the water with decay organisms. I assume you've gotten rid of the unhatched eggs already. If not go ahead. They won't hatch and will raise the ammonia content in your water in a hurry.
BTW, don't feel bad about the "green water" in your pond. As annoying as it can be it is also a necessary thing. I'm of the opinion that one of the triggers for Female Koi to lay their eggs is green water. It is natures way of telling her that the fry will have food when they hatch Wink

xXKoiQueenXx
Koi Lover

May 14, 2006, 10:09 AM

Post #6 of 18 (1836 views)
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Re: [larz1] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

They're doing pretty good so far, we went out and bought a brine shrimp hatchery thing with 6 packets of eggs, and got this liquid food called "small fry" Haven't fed them the brine shrimp (maybe next week?), but I dropped around 20 drops of the stuff for them.

My dad is going to build kind of temporary pond for them...pretty much a big box that'll be like...2-3 feet deep and will have pond liner in it.

Is there anything wrong with moving all the fry in such a big area?

Thanks!
Chelsea

P.S. When can fry start accepting hatched brine shrimp?
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larz1
Koi Kichi

May 14, 2006, 10:13 AM

Post #7 of 18 (1835 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Sounds like you are off to a great start Cool

. Watching fry grow out the first time is TONS of fun Wink

, and a great learning experience, so enjoy every minute of it Smile

xXKoiQueenXx
Koi Lover

May 14, 2006, 2:06 PM

Post #8 of 18 (1832 views)
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Re: [larz1] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks, That's the whole idea for my dad, he really just wants to see them grow. :]

He even dreams about koi :P

Well, I'm not sure what kind they will be, but the females we have are a shiro bekko, asagi (not a very good one...loaded with dirt sumi on the head and has a jaw deformity, but i love her anyways :] ), and a pure white butterfly koi.

The males that sandwiched them :P are one of our favorites is a beautiful Showa, a "kohaku" that is all white now, a "comet" not sure what type, but it's all red with a white belly, then has the "oranda goldfish" tumor head lol. and a hi showa? It's all light orange with a 3 small steps of sumi.

It will be interesting to see what the babies turn out to be :]
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larz1
Koi Kichi

May 14, 2006, 4:56 PM

Post #9 of 18 (1828 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

When the time comes to start culling (not what you are looking forward to, I know), start with deformities in the face. Since you have a comet in the potential mix, look to make sure the fry have barbels. If they don't have barbels toss them first. Goldfish/Koi crossbreeding produces UUUUUGLY fish you don't want to waste your time on.

xXKoiQueenXx
Koi Lover

May 15, 2006, 12:15 PM

Post #10 of 18 (1813 views)
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Re: [larz1] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

We'll definitely look for the barbels and if not, toss them out.

I've already tossed out 3 pathetic fry who floated for awhile on their side, then gave a push of energy then repeated :P

We've come up with a silly idea as they grow so big it gets harder for the culling, so we found this gynormous pond/lake (it's not THAT big, but almost the size of a foot ball field) that we have "released" ugly feeder fish that we started out with and that turned into big fat ugly fishes lol. The pond has good airiation and you can see fish in the water. We might release some in there...why not :P

My brine shrimp hatched so I tossed them in there and the fry seemed quite happy...after looking in the 40 g. tub we definitely have at least 1000 (had 3 females that spawned).

My dad is building right now a retangle pond that is 3' deep and about 7-8 feet long and about 2 feet wide...i think. He's gonna put the pond liner and hopefully water in there tomorrow.

I'm worried about the water as for the fry going into shock. And to fill the whole thing with the water from the original pond would be almost 3/4 of the water.

Should we wait for the newly conditioned water to age before we put the fry in? How should we add the fry into the huge environment. Also is it bad for them to have such big space?

Thanks!
Chelsea
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larz1
Koi Kichi

May 15, 2006, 7:51 PM

Post #11 of 18 (1805 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Letting the water age a bit would be a good idea but it won't take as long as you might think. If you fill the fry pond with a spray nozzle instead just a hose it will aerate and dechlorinate most of the water at the same time. (Chlorine oxidizes quickly in sunlight when it is atomized) When you've filled it 3/4 test for chlorine and add only as much Dechlor as you need. Top it off with pond water to get some green "seed" water and you'll be good to go. It would also be a good idea to add some floating water plants like water hyacinth to give them cover and help eat nitrates in the water while you are running a pond without filtration..
Wild carp hatch in rivers and lakes all the time, so the large space won't bother them at all. When you transfer them it would be a good time to look for obvious physical defects and cull them.
As to your "catch and release" culling plan, you might want to check on a few things first. If the small lake in question is connected to a waterway the culled Koi could wind up migrating a great distance and causing problems in the local fisheries. Fish and Game departments around the U.S. have been dealing with imported fish species taking over certain waterways and causing environmental problems for quite some time now.

zoul
Member

May 15, 2006, 9:00 PM

Post #12 of 18 (1804 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dear KoiQueen

If you leave the water in you new certche to matur for a week. It should be ok put a couple of buckets of pond water in to speed up the prosess.

To make the move easier on your Babys bag them up and float the bages for 15 minutes adding a little pond water every now and then to get them used to the taste.. Then say "fly be free" as you release them (Its a good luck charm for fish ) Wink

xXKoiQueenXx
Koi Lover

May 16, 2006, 8:44 AM

Post #13 of 18 (1796 views)
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Re: [zoul] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

:] I'll be sure to say that everytime

Sounds good with the spray nozzle, dad's gonna hopefully fill it with water today :]
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xXKoiQueenXx
Koi Lover

May 18, 2006, 8:21 AM

Post #14 of 18 (1763 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

GAH. so I came home today and like...20-30 of them died.

I know why, and it sucks. With building the new pond I totally forgot about changing water and such. The Ammonia and Nitrate were way to high. Nitrate was .50 (light purple) and the Ammonia was (greenish yellow) .50

So I spent like 2-3 hours scooping out the dead ones and I did a water change, and I had to lower the pH too since it was at 9.0 (dark blue). I checked the Ammonia&Nitrate&pH and it seems to have gotten better, but I'll be sure to check often now :]

Hopefully I'll be able to move them into the big pond tonight/tomorrow. THe nitrate, ammonia, and pH seem to be fine in there. I'll prolly stick all of them into like 10- 20 zip lock bags and let them float around...it's that's how you do it. Then they should be good to go..right?

Chelsea

P.S. are white fry unhealthy? Most dead ones were all white and floating, but I have a few that are white, but they're swimming around and such.
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zoul
Member

May 19, 2006, 4:13 AM

Post #15 of 18 (1740 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

thats gotta hurt....

Here we are trying to help you, and your babys and you don't stay on top of the stuff you need to....

Check the water every day or so.... regular water changes.... I'm hurt, i was taking part in these babys welfare....

white fish are no more unhealthy than any others ... although they do tend to get sunburnt sometimes ... darker fish absourb more sunlite so you need some shade for all of them....

How old are they now ?? you got colour comming through ... any nice ones yet .... I know they all are nice but do you have any you really like ???

xXKoiQueenXx
Koi Lover

May 19, 2006, 8:07 AM

Post #16 of 18 (1736 views)
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Re: [zoul] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm sry, I truly am. I feel bad myself, we're putting them in the big pond now because the ammonia and nitrate just went back up and that tub is probably way too small for them. Around 60 died again today, I did a 25% water change yesterday, but I guess it wasn't enough.

We're trying our best, I'm sorry. Frown

My dad is going to the pond place to buy an air machine (bigger one) for the new pond and I'm testing the water every day now. :[ I feel bad :[[[[

They're about 1-2 weeks old...they're not that big... maybe like this big | | <that big. so they're quite small.

OH! and I noticed something in the fish that are dying and dead. They seem to have like too big of a swim bladder cuz they can't stay underwater and you can see like 3 bubbles of air, while the healthy ones just have one little bubble. Is that the cause of ammonia and nitrate being high? Or is that another problem we need to deal with? We've got a few that are just on the top (sideways) and can't swim down. :[

We have a lot left, but it still makes me sad :[

I'M SORRY!!!!!!
Chelsea
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zoul
Member

Jul 6, 2006, 12:44 AM

Post #17 of 18 (1540 views)
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Re: [xXKoiQueenXx] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dear KoiQueen

Isn't it time we had an update on your babys??

Wheres the chrisaning photos ????lol

xXKoiQueenXx
Koi Lover

Jul 6, 2006, 4:31 AM

Post #18 of 18 (1530 views)
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Re: [zoul] Are we doing this right? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gah, I wish I could post pictures. A while ago when they were getting fairly big &were doing fine and we went to check on them the next day and they were all gone! Everysingle baby koi was gone in there. We have a feeling something ate them, but also we had a LOT of these tiny 1inch worms in it.

We think something ate them all or the worms were some sort of larvae.

I wish we still had them, our females are getting really fat now so I'm not sure if they'll spawn later on in the year or we'll wait till next summer.

We were'nt prepared really for the fry so next time we'll be able to do a much better job with them & not lose so many.
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