Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Koi Breeding: Induced spawning

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Induced spawning

estanque_koi
Koi Lover

May 6, 2004, 7:59 AM

Post #1 of 5 (1583 views)
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Induced spawning	Can't Post

Hello,
there is quite a lot of information available on the web about advanced techniques of artificially mass rearing common carp. Being a Koi enthusiast and a scientific (biologist), and following my previous year small experience in natural breeding Koi, this spring I'm doing all my best to artificially induce spawning to some of my koi. I have been rather busy colecting and digesting all the technical info. Bought a commercial product (a combination of LHRHa plus a dopamine antagonist), eugenol as anaesthetic, and got all the necessary materials (syringes, digital precision balance, and so on).
I think maybe my recent experiences might be of interest to other members in this forum.
A vet friend of mine kindly help me anesthesizing and injecting the first couple of females. So far I have tried with 4 different females. Due to bad weather and unusual low temperatures, I didn't got the expected results so far. The latency period (from injection to ovulation) increased unpredictably from the expected 14 hours to nearly 36 hours. The two females already laid a lot of eggs in the tank before I came back home that night. I managed to successfully strip one female, getting several hundreds of eggs. Extracting the milt from the inoculated male was extremely quick and easy. The following process is not so easy, there are some more steps where any mistake would ruin the whole batch of eggs (dry mixing, adding the extender solution, drain, rinse, add more, etc. and then the process to remove egg stickness with tanic acid solution). My DIY "zug type" incubator worked very well. However, 14 degrees celsius is a very bad water temperature to incubate the eggs. Not surprisingly, all of them finally died. That first trial was outside in the terrace (gto a very limited space available). I couldn't get any egg stripping the second female, so I put her in a tank with males and mopes. Laid more eggs, but when I arrived all were eaten except those attached above the water level.
Last weekend I made a second trial, this time I took two gravid females inside, in a tiny insulated and well aerated tank with water at 22 degrees centigrades. Females failed to ovulate, even though I injected a second dose to one of them 20 h after the first dosage. I believe the stress produced by the air diffuser and the air pump, as well as by the small size of the tank, completely blocked the ovulation process. These two females were taken back to a separate small pond on sunday night, one male and mopes were added and nothing has happened so far.
I'm still waiting for better weather conditions, it seems they are going to improve in the next few days. My best female is still FAT waiting for nicer days...
In conclusion, I would like to say a couple of things to everyone interested in this topic. Don't even try it unless you have a lot of genuine interest. There are many critical steps and tricks that can go wrong, and is a rather time consuming process (you have to wait and be there when the female finally ovulates and turns from "green" to "ripe"). Make sure you have plenty of room available indoors, where water temperature may be kept constant and at the desired level. The site must be quiet. Read carefully and master all the available information. Get a good hormonal product -there are some synthetic analogs that work great, beware of dubious CPE (if it is not fresh and properly calibrated the results can be highly unpredictable). Prepare carefully all the stuff necessary to complete the proccess well in advance. Get some previous practice with the anaesthesiae, oil of cloves (eugenol) is easy to find, cheap and safe. This experience can be very useful in other context.
And finally, PLEASE let me know about your own experiences as soon as possible!
All the best,
Diego Jordano (Cordoba, Spain)
http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/
http://www.elkoi.com
Diego Jordano
Spain
pers http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/
A.E.K. http://www.elkoi.com

kgt1223
Member

May 7, 2004, 10:24 AM

Post #2 of 5 (1544 views)
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Re: [estanque_koi] Induced spawning [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello Diego

Am glad to hear that u have proceeded with your induced spawning research. I did not no that u had a background in biology. No wonder I could not diswade u from all the work that u took on. LOL!!! Sly

It is interesting stuff.

I FOUND my ovaprim work book yesterday and if u will send me your address again I will get it off to u. Has lots of useful info.

The few thousand fry that I kept in my yard to observed are doing well. There are many that I should cull but am letting them grow on to watch there development. Have a lot of different patterns and colors developing. Have not detected any red yet but is my understanding that red does not usually present until later. They are just at 5 weeks now. I have the other 200k in 2 ponds at a friends tropical fish farm. Cant wait to see them in 3 or four months!

Cant remember whether I mentioned this before, we cathederized females and checked the migration of nucleus to outer edge of egg. The more nucleus that u see have migrated, the better the yeild of viable eggs. Water temp was around 69 or 70 degrees and koi were being held in 4x6 concrete containers, some with spawning material and some without. The females in the tanks with the introduced spawning materials seemed to have a better yeild of viable eggs. More of the nucleus had started their migration. The ones without spawning materials also did produce quite a good number of viable eggs.

Out of 34 males and females all were ready and flowing 12 to 14 hrs after ovaprim injections with no prior priming doses. This was all conducted inside.
Keep me posted on your progress. Will send pics of fry when I get a chance.

Buena Suerte, Kiefer
KIEFER

estanque_koi
Koi Lover

May 18, 2004, 7:10 AM

Post #3 of 5 (1474 views)
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Re: [kgt1223] Induced spawning [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello Kiefer,
thank you for your comments. It is great to know that you managed to get so many fry! What varieties do parents belong to?
I decided to put my last gravid female in a tank with three males (all Sanke).
The tank is a small doughboy swimming pool of 1350 liters with homemade biofilter and UV light. Two days later (monday 10th of May) they had spawned and there were thousands of eggs attached to the mopes and also to the filamentous algae that line the walls and bottom of the tank. Quickly took the koi to another pond, and the mopes to a rearing tank. I was unable to degumming the eggs sticked to the algae in order to place them in the DIY zug incubator at home (23�C). Decided to leave them in the tank, turned off the UV light but not the filter, and added two flexible air diffuser tubes. The water was all right, afterall the parents are not big koi and the biofilter is well matured and large in relation to the tank size. I took a small mass of algae with eggs and placed them in the incubator at home.
Two days later most eggs were white and propects were rather discouraging.
The morning of the third day, well, there was a noticeably and somewhat disgusting smell coming out from the incubator. Almost threw all of its content. Upstairs in the terrace the eggs in the tank looked really bad, most of them were white and many seemed to be covered by a traslucid film. But helas, in the afternoon I discovered some fry alive in the incubator, so I moved all the fry and remaining eggs out of the hatching jars.
Well, on sunday afternoon fry started to hatch in the terrace tanks. Today there are thousands of fry

. I have been transferring water from several cultures of Daphnia and infusoriesto the tanks during the last few days to "seed" them with live food. The fry I keep at home and those that came out from the mopes in the small rearing tank are bigger than the fry in the tank were the eggs were initially laid, just due to differences in water temperature. They are doing very well. I will start adding Artemia nauplius in two days or so, now the fry have plenty of live food and the Daphnia cultures are still productive.
I'm happy to finally give a try to this female using the "natural spawning" approach instead of using artificial induction. I was lucky to get good results, and no stress whatsoever, either for the fish and for me! -well, just a little worry while watching all those white eggs.
I believe that the third and fourth females I injected with ovaprim haven't spawned yet (they are still with a male in a tank with mopes). I want to continue experimenting with artificial breeding

, but have to admit is not a practice to be recomended to the average koi keeper interested in breeding.
All the best,
Diego Jordano
Cordoba, Spain
http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/
Diego Jordano
Spain
pers http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/
A.E.K. http://www.elkoi.com

kgt1223
Member

May 18, 2004, 1:52 PM

Post #4 of 5 (1464 views)
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Re: [estanque_koi] Induced spawning [In reply to]	Can't Post

I used 2 kohaku males with a female tancho sanke. I have ended up with quite a mix of things, To early to tell yet if anything of of importance has been produced. Waiting and watching them change is what is exciting for me. I am sure that my cat wishes for me to start the culling process, but with no experience in this matter I will give them more time to develop before ringing the dinner bell Wink

Kiefer
KIEFER

khaku2
Novice

May 19, 2004, 10:30 AM

Post #5 of 5 (1439 views)
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Re: [kgt1223] Induced spawning [In reply to]	Can't Post

send me a pic of the parents and fry

here at thekoiboy@earthlink.net

Warning : This khaku2 has made a great number of posts in this forum and most of them are posted just for the sake of posting. You may wish to ignore his post if you are not sure whether what he posted is right or wrong.

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