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KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG?

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koi@kit
Senior Member

Feb 6, 2006, 11:04 AM

Post #1 of 31 (2961 views)
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KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG?	Can't Post

Hi all..

once i was told dat in order to make our female koi grow bigger, we must make her lay her eggs.. reason is, when the koi carries egg all the nutrient of the food goes to the egg, thus koi growth rate slow down.. cud dis be true?

regards
kit
Smile

Koi38
Senior Member

Feb 6, 2006, 1:03 PM

Post #2 of 31 (2951 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kit,

Very interesting question Wink

I too will be waiting answers from our Sifu's

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

HWONG
Koi Addict

Feb 6, 2006, 8:33 PM

Post #3 of 31 (2937 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Kit, I have been told that by a few breeders too. The nutrient loigic sounds valid. I have not being able to make my female kois spawn! Unsure

I Prepared FT with fresh water, spawning mesh, lots of aeration. I have introduced my Sanke (belly is full and soft to the touch) with a big male yesterday afternoon and up till now, still no visual sign of spawning but there is a raw odour; probably milt from the horny male. Laugh

Any advice people???

koi@kit
Senior Member

Feb 6, 2006, 9:05 PM

Post #4 of 31 (2936 views)
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Re: [HWONG] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

HWong..

tks for ur information.. as for ur problem i think u need more male instead of just one.. say 2 to 3 male vs one female..
if after 3 days nothing happen u better dont take the chance with dat male.. Sly

last time i visited Dr Teh, he told me he can breed.. my b cifu DTBH can help u with ur problem.. Wink

koifishgirl
Koi Kichi

Feb 7, 2006, 2:35 AM

Post #5 of 31 (2930 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ok. When a female is producing eggs her body is taking what she need to grows to develope the eggs. So it is best not to spawn a female that you want to grow so she can reabsorb the protein from the eggs. She should not be spawned untill she is at least 4 years old. It stunts a females growth to spawn them before time because of egg production. It takes a lot from the female and hinders her to spawn her. So keep the males away from the females that you really want to grow large and feed them good. Dont worry to much about the eggs in the bellie of the female as it is nature for her to obsorb the eggs if a male is not present.
Judy

Koi38
Senior Member

Feb 7, 2006, 7:52 AM

Post #6 of 31 (2928 views)
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Re: [HWONG] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi HWONG,

Some breeders told me that spawning can take days before the females start producing eggs. Maybe they just waiting for the right water temp Smile

.

Here in Sydney koi spawns if the water temp bet 23deg C to 27deg C and starts really early like 4am Shocked

......too early Pirate

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

GCSpyder
Koi Addict

Feb 7, 2006, 10:53 AM

Post #7 of 31 (2920 views)
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Re: [HWONG] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Hwong,

I don't have experience with spawning females but some farms in Singapore use CPE if the female is receptive and they normally use a few males. Maybe you might want to consider that. I heard a vial of CPE can be expensive but maybe you can pinch some from the farms if they have as just a bit is enough

Cheers..

HWONG
Koi Addict

Feb 7, 2006, 11:02 AM

Post #8 of 31 (2917 views)
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Re: [GCSpyder] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dear All,
Thanks for the inputs. The male is the same one used in Dr Teh's breeding program. Each time they were paired, the female will spawn but only once were the eggs fertilised. He is doing his job but maybe he was shooting blanks. Wink

Unfortunately I dont have another male.
Spyder I thought of the inducing agent but I heard it can arm the koi.

koi@kit
Senior Member

Feb 7, 2006, 11:15 AM

Post #9 of 31 (2916 views)
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Re: [HWONG] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi HWong..

yes i agree with u, i heard it can harm the female too.. i think the male is exhausted.. Sly

.. give him time to recover lah.. Sly

GCSpyder
Koi Addict

Feb 7, 2006, 2:05 PM

Post #10 of 31 (2907 views)
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Re: [HWONG] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Hwong,

I guess most stuff can cause harm. Maybe you might want to check with Maurice of UK. I think he should be able to advise better on such matters as he has a big farm to operate.

Cheers..

koifishgirl
Koi Kichi

Feb 10, 2006, 8:33 AM

Post #11 of 31 (2869 views)
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Re: [GCSpyder] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah thats a good one to check with as he is a breeder. I think he will tell you not to spawn your female untill after she had put on some growth. There are several reasons why and one is because the eggs will not be big enough to raise good fry and If I am not mistaken it will stunt the female to spawn her before time. I may be wrong so Im on a hunt for more info.
Judy

HWONG
Koi Addict

Feb 10, 2006, 5:51 PM

Post #12 of 31 (2854 views)
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Re: [koifishgirl] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I read a Koi Bito thread. It was suggested that females below 4 years old shud not be spawned to prevent stunting its growth. I also got in touch with the local Sydel office that produces the ovulation inducer. I will try to get the product and try it on my kois and if they work as claimed, I will report it here. Laugh

koi@kit
Senior Member

Feb 10, 2006, 6:14 PM

Post #13 of 31 (2851 views)
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Re: [HWONG] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

HWong..

Good Luck... pls update us ur results.. many tks..

lilhelper
Member

Feb 14, 2006, 11:40 AM

Post #14 of 31 (2759 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

yes maybe the kois growth would be slowed down, but it wouldnt be permanently.
I dont think anyone has to worry about this, a koi will reach its maximum potential.
You should only worry about this if you are a in a contest, like a grow-out but even then, I wouldnt.
------------------------------------------------------------
1 ochiba shigure 13"-14"
1 aka bekko 8"-9"
2 Matsunosuke kohaku.
1 9"-10" Shusui
1 Matsunosuke Showa
1 Matsunosuke Sanke
1 10"-12" Yamabuki ogon

DONE WITH MY POND, look at it in members pond, under MY NEW POND.

koi@kit
Senior Member

Feb 14, 2006, 7:48 PM

Post #15 of 31 (2746 views)
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Re: [lilhelper] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi lilhelper..

tks for ur reply.. when u said it wont be permanent. how long does it take for the koi to start growing again?

HWONG
Koi Addict

Feb 18, 2006, 11:37 PM

Post #16 of 31 (2660 views)
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Re: [HWONG] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi people, Here is an update on my attempt to spawn my showa. I bought the ovulation inducer from Syndel. 10 ml bottle at Rm69 or approx USD19. The prescribed dosage for female koi is 0.5ml per kg and for the male koi 0.25ml per kg. My Showa female weighed approx 5 kg (2.5ml)and the Male 4Kg.(1ml).

On Sat Feb 18th, at 4pm, with the help of Yang my Koi buddy, the kois were sedated with MS222 and were injected at the beginning of the dorsal fin. Kois were released into fibre tank with spawning material (I use iseki net) and plenty of aeration from 40watt Hiblo. The kois are supposed to get sexy in around 12 to 16 hours. BUT the male was already chasing the still dazed female. I checked at 10pm. Still no sign of eggs being released. So will check again 2moro morning

koi@kit
Senior Member

Feb 18, 2006, 11:40 PM

Post #17 of 31 (2657 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi HWONG..

tks for the update.. will wait for ur next update.. tks for sharing..

larz1
Koi Kichi

Mar 8, 2006, 9:50 PM

Post #18 of 31 (2408 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

No expert here as we are only coming into our 2nd spawning season, but all I've read on the subject indicates several triggers for natural spawing, mainly a temperature change from cool water to warm along with the availability of fresh algae. Apparantly the algae nutrients signal the females body that the fry will have food when they hatch. (nature has an intelligent design Wink

)
Since most Japanese breeders don't breed in green water they get around that problem by milking the males and females of eggs and milt and mix them in a bowl for fertilization.
As far as female growth is concerned, it only makes sense that spawning at an early age would tend to stunt them as Juvenile nutrition will have permanent impact. If too much of her food is going to eggs it is not available for bone, muscle, and organ development during the primary growth years. The pro's in Japan isolate their tategoi to discourage flock spawning and encourage maximum growth during the first 2-4 years.

koi@kit
Senior Member

Mar 8, 2006, 10:10 PM

Post #19 of 31 (2404 views)
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Re: [larz1] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi larz1..

tks for ur infomation... one question.. o ur female koi grow bigger n longer after spawning? Smile

larz1
Koi Kichi

Mar 9, 2006, 9:38 PM

Post #20 of 31 (2375 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

After spawning she should resume normal growth, but I don't know that spawning makes them grow bigger than they would have if they never got pregnant. Hope that helps.

koi@kit
Senior Member

Mar 9, 2006, 10:13 PM

Post #21 of 31 (2373 views)
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Re: [larz1] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi larz1..

one more question. Wink

.. do u think when female koi carries eggs in their body, most of the nutrient consume goes to the eggs making the koi's growth rate slow down? Smile

larz1
Koi Kichi

Mar 9, 2006, 10:37 PM

Post #22 of 31 (2371 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

While the eggs are developing much of her food goes to growing eggs instead of growing her own body, which is only natural. Every animal species is hard-wired to ensure healthy reproduction. Once the eggs are mature only a small amount of extra energy is used to keep them healthy until spawning, but under normal circumstances that takes place during cool weather when they aren't really eating much anyway. In a more tropical climate that is less of an issue than it would be in Japan.

koi@kit
Senior Member

Mar 9, 2006, 10:55 PM

Post #23 of 31 (2370 views)
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Re: [larz1] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

many thanks larz1 for the explaination.. Wink

neutokoi
Koi Lover

Mar 10, 2006, 4:54 PM

Post #24 of 31 (2346 views)
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Re: [larz1] KOI GROW BIGGER AFTER LAY EGG? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Larzi,
I raised similar question in the subject of female vs body question, in here we are talking about spawning and how to prevent the spawning, but is there anyway/method to prevent the female koi from carrying eggs? Crazy

We this, we don't even have to wait for the female to reabsorb the egg. Cool

Cheers,
edo

HWONG
Koi Addict

Mar 10, 2006, 8:36 PM

Post #25 of 31 (2333 views)
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Re: [HWONG] uPDATE ON SPAWNING? [In reply to]	Can't Post

"I checked at 10pm. Still no sign of eggs being released. So will check again 2moro morning "

My apologies for the long delay in posting this update.
The Koi spawned the following morning and the smell as I approached the FT was very raw, the water had a cloudy look to it and you guessed it: Eggs here, there, everywhere.

The male was still pursuing the female so I guess the spawning is not over?? The female looked pretty beat-up and it looked like some Hi on her shoulder had been scraped off.

Just as the manufacturer said, the spawning inducer certainly worked. So for those who have similar problems as mine can try it.

Mistake I made and a caution. After the spawning, the water was fouling up real quick and I took the decision to transfer the kois back to my main pond. Despite being advised by a breeder that it is a good practice to inject the kois especially the female with anti-biotic to prevent infection. My female koi looked really terrible the following day and stayed at the bottom. Her shiroji had turned yellow. By this time I had drained the FT and had fresh water pumped in.

I treated the female with with 80mil antibiotics twice and by the 5th day she had recovered. She is now happily swimming in the main pond again.

(This post was edited by HWONG on Mar 10, 2006, 8:48 PM)

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