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Kois that are bread outside Japan

carzykoi
Koi Lover

Oct 29, 2004, 1:49 AM

Post #1 of 16 (2179 views)
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Kois that are bread outside Japan	Can't Post

Hi everyone...

Got a question to ask you guys.... Which koi breeder outside Japan do you know of?? What are your views and thoughts of Kois that are bread outside Japan???
Have any of you purchased any kois from any of them?????
Please feel free to express all your views....

Thanks...

re,
Andy Tongue

ChoobKoiOwner
Koi Lover

Oct 29, 2004, 8:38 AM

Post #2 of 16 (2162 views)
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Re: [carzykoi] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, you can find some pretty nice koi outside of Japan, but if you want the best Japan is the place to go.

----Russell-----------
AOL IM: Choob54
MSN IM: Choob54@hotmail.com
YAHOO IM: Ch00bster@yahoo.com
E-MAIL: Ch00bster@yahoo.com

kgt1223
Member

Oct 29, 2004, 9:25 AM

Post #3 of 16 (2158 views)
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Re: [ChoobKoiOwner] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

There is no doubt that you stand a better chance of getting a genetically superior koi from Japan. That does not mean that Japan doesnt produce as many undesireable koi as a breeder in any other country. I think that the difference may be that there culling standards as a whole are much higher than most. Having said that, it would be unfair of me to tell u that there are no reputable breeders outside of japan that produce koi with championship potential
useing imported japanese parents with decent genetics. In the end it is always a gamble and all u can hope to do is hedge your bet by researching and knowing your dealer or breeder.

Kiefer
KIEFER

carzykoi
Koi Lover

Oct 29, 2004, 10:23 AM

Post #4 of 16 (2156 views)
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Re: [kgt1223] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for your replies guys...

What you say is true...

Hence its really hard for people to recognize breeder like us outside Japan who by the way is using top linage bloodline and even a top Japanese breeder taking care of everything to do with koi... to me the only difference is Geographically.... But to most ppl out there, when they hear China born, they just simply put us down a level as to compared to any koi from japan... regardless of quality... I'm sure there are also average kois from japan... So people as we are... always tend to be more brand cautious... I'm sure i've ever done the same, maybe on different products... but the logic is the same... Well... I just hope that people will one day know more and understand more of us...

Re,
ANdy

ps: a pic of few of my mudponds in Beijing...

Attachments:

mudpons1.jpg (49.7 KB)

franlow
Koi Lover

Oct 29, 2004, 10:29 AM

Post #5 of 16 (2154 views)
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Re: [carzykoi] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Andy,

I get your drift....

the pictures of kois you posted are indeed beautiful.

any idea if china bred kois are available in KL?

will get some and see if it turns out nice

rickytanoto
Koi Lover

Oct 29, 2004, 11:19 AM

Post #6 of 16 (2148 views)
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Re: [franlow] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Andy,

Can I purchased them in Jakarta?

You got a nice selection of kois.

How much those they cost?

thanks

ricky

(This post was edited by rickytanoto on Oct 29, 2004, 11:20 AM)

carzykoi
Koi Lover

Oct 29, 2004, 2:12 PM

Post #7 of 16 (2139 views)
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Re: [franlow] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Fran,
We currently don't have any distributers in KL... But we are situated at your nearby neighbour Singapore... So we arn't too far away...

Re,
Andy

HWONG
Koi Addict

Oct 29, 2004, 9:47 PM

Post #8 of 16 (2118 views)
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Re: [carzykoi] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Andy, The best thing to do is to send your best to Japan to compete. Winning some serious prizes will change people's mind. EVen regional shows like The BKKS, Singapore show will do youi good. If Magois are allowed into Japan B4 the KHV outbreak, I am sure Kois from China will be allowed in barring any "barriers". I have read in MAgs that top japanese breeders are trying to source giant magois from China for their breeding program.

I myself keep a Taiwan bred kohaku just to see if there is any thruth that Non Jap kois succumb to potbelly. It is bred from good kois from top Japanese names. One thing I observe is, Non Jap breeders dont really give hobbyist a chance to keep their best kois bcos the prices are kept high. For top hobbyist, I am not sure they will experiment with Non Jap kois. So for the general hobbyist like I, current prices are a barrier. It is widely acknowledged that Taiwanese breed very high quality Kujakus, Ochibas and Ogons and their prices are not cheap.

Then the next issue is the obssession with dreams of keeping Jumbos growing beyond 80cm. On another Forum , a senior hobbyist threw this question to readers. He said that even the very top hobbyist in Japan finds it a challenge to grow Gosankes to that size. Their ponds are huge and deep and they keep only a few. They also spend loads of money growing them in Mud ponds in the summer.
So he advise that hobbyists who dont have such resources should not waste big money buying nisai tategois that have the potential to grow to those sizes. It is better that money is spent on very high quality sansais that the breeders know does not have the potential to grow to 80-90cm.So staring at my own pond which is 25 tons plus 7 tons filter, I think his advise is a good one. Beautiful kois in the high 70's cm and good girth are a sight to behold. I am absolutely satisfied with my 74cm Sanke which is fattening up in a friend's pond. You can see it in this month's Nichirin amongst the winners during the 4th Malaysian koi show B4 fattening. Less than a decade ago, it would have been considered a Jumbo! Cool

Andy, the Japanese has over the last 50 years done a fantastic job brainwashing Wink

us, so dont despair. For your info, the top 2 kois in the 1st koi selection and rearing competition are kois from Yu San Jia, TAiwan. I will be keen to see your tategois. PM me your contacts.

Your Avatar (kohaku) is very nice. Is it one of your brood?.

carzykoi
Koi Lover

Oct 30, 2004, 2:56 AM

Post #9 of 16 (2105 views)
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Re: [HWONG] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi HWONG,
reli appreaciate for your long posting Wink

& your understanding of my situation. i dun dare speak for all koi breeders but i am confident of my fish & reli wish others will soon realise of the quality fishes we'r able to produce.
Heres a lil history of us... We started off as a Tropical fish exporter in Singapore in the 1970s and ventured into the breeding of Nishikigoi after a overseas client of ours introduced us to a Japanese friend which then introduced us to Mr. Miyajima of Miyajima Koi Farm in Toyoma. Mr Miyajima, our sensei (master) is one of the top Nishikigoi breeders in Japan back in the 1980s. He's well respected and was once the Chairman of Shinkokai Japan. We then partnered and started koi breeding in Beijing,China in 1995. With our master's 30 years of experience in Koi breeding, with his high expectations and strict demands... hence we never stop improving.. As you should know, it's not an easy job to keep Kois beautiful and healthy...
Now with almost 10yrs of experience and hard work... I would say it's all worth it, whenever our kois wins in a competetion against Japan Koi.. or even a simple praise of our quality... The joy and pride that we feel is totally out of this world....
I dare say that not many people including Japenese not from Nishikigoi breeding background... would be able to achieve this massive feat.
Forgive me if i sound abit too cocky, but i think that we don't get the respect we deserve for all we've done and proven.
We entered in many Koi competitions all over the world (mostly in Singapore) , we've won many many prizes with our Kois... I remember that we enter the KL show in 1999 or 2000 and won many prizes including a baby champ.
Well just pouring my feelings out... Hope that i didn't bore you... To contact me, you can mail me at andychia@cbkoi.com or visit our koisale web at www.cbkoi.com our Singapore Farm address is there. The Kois in the website are all in the Singapore Farm. You'r always welcome to pay us a visit at our Singapore Farm or if you want a Nishikigoi experience, you'll have to visit out Beijing farm which spreads across an area of 1.8 million square meters....
Looking forward to hear from you soon....

Re,
ANdy

luke frisbee
Koi Lover

Oct 30, 2004, 10:23 AM

Post #10 of 16 (2099 views)
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Re: [carzykoi] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Here is the short and the skinny from where I sit....
If you get several breeding pairs from japan stock, in one of the spawns you will have the exact same quality fish that any premier breeder in Japan has.
But he will know what to look for and will cull more ruthlessly...So when he culls down to 500 fish most of his 500 will kick the crap out of the 3000 fish you culled as your "best."
The reason the Japanese koi are better is in the culling.....knowledge of what to keep and cull, ....and an understanding and willingness to cull deeply

the world as I believe it.

carzykoi
Koi Lover

Oct 30, 2004, 12:33 PM

Post #11 of 16 (2091 views)
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Re: [luke frisbee] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Luke
thanks for your reply... I agree with what you mention about culling... But you missed out few important points... Broodstock pairing... Lineage... Cos if at the 1st place the quality isn't there, eventually if u wanna cull ruthlessly.. in the end there will be nothing left...
Hence it still goes down to skill.. experience... and quality broodstock...

Re,
ANdy

luke frisbee
Koi Lover

Oct 31, 2004, 9:35 AM

Post #12 of 16 (2053 views)
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Re: [carzykoi] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Andy,
reread my post with this in mind, I did mention that you will have to get "stock" from Japan....I meant brood stock or something that could be considered "brood stock" from the several pairings.
AND that it would require several pairings of said stock to get "A" spawning equal to the better japanese good spawns........and then it all comes down to knowledge and the ability to act based on that knowledge.
So yes we agree you have to have a spawning that has the fry within it to end up with a better product. Thing is even when most breeders get an awesome over the top spawning they screw the pooch when culling it.

carzykoi
Koi Lover

Oct 31, 2004, 10:14 AM

Post #13 of 16 (2043 views)
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Re: [luke frisbee] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Luke,
I agree with ya... it's all skill and many years of experience...

re
andy

rickytanoto
Koi Lover

Nov 3, 2004, 10:14 AM

Post #14 of 16 (1990 views)
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Re: [carzykoi] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Andy,

I sent you a private message.

thanks
ricky

koifishgirl
Koi Kichi

Nov 3, 2004, 11:04 PM

Post #15 of 16 (1959 views)
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Re: [carzykoi] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

OK. Here is what I think, if you have good parent stock of good bloodlines I dont care were you are. Japan , China , or wherever you will have good stock. No 1 because of the bloodlines. If you provide koi with good enviroment and good food your koi are sure to come out with good quality. I think that the Japanese breeder cull before they put in their mud pond , but I cant see how they cull that heavy at first because koi change so much in that first year if they culled to heavy I personaly think that they would cull some good koi. Would you not think that with the mud pond of they volume that they have that they do not grow alot of their koi before they make the final diciesion of w;hat to cull? I am not saying that they dont cull heavy and keep most of the best but dont you think that knowing what we know that you would have to hold on to koi for a while to see just how they will turn out. Take a look at kgt1223 yougans and you will see what I mean about good bloodlines and they are being raised in the US. He had produced some very nice koi and provided them with a good enviorment and good food and look at how his koi have turned out . Just dont see how Japan can have the best when I see first hand that koi raised here are just as nice. I would be very happy to have some of his koi in my pond. I think it is how they are taken care of that produce good koi.
Judy

sanke04
Koi Lover

Nov 4, 2004, 5:04 AM

Post #16 of 16 (1942 views)
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Re: [carzykoi] Kois that are bread outside Japan [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Andy i heard you talk alot about koi from China, iam a wholesale and resale koi in (US) and i might visit China in February, if you could i really appricate if you could send me some pic of the kois and prices, another thing, the reason iam going to China is try to import ponds items, like filter, pump, and among other thing if you could give me some direction how and where to import these items directly from some of the China manfactural i really appreciated, wait to hear back from you thanks.

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