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Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank?

 





 


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 21, 2006, 3:01 AM

Post #1 of 25 (1816 views)
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Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? Can't Post
I have 20 gal tank and a 10 gal tank with filter and air stone and flourescent lighting that I would like to raise fry in. If I kept the tank inside, would I have to heat it? Could I just keep it outside? What should I put over the filter to stop them from getting sucked up? What should I feed them? I don't think I'll be able to catch more than 20 fry, but I want to try this anyway. If I kept the tank outside, should I keep it in the shade or the sun? I also have a 32 gal rubbermaid tub that I could keep them in, but I will only be able to put an air stone in it. These fry are only 1/8 in - 1/3 in long. Any other information that I will need, but did not ask about about will be extremely helpfull.Thank you.


zoul
Member

Jun 21, 2006, 3:32 AM

Post #2 of 25 (1812 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear maverick413

Your better off trading in your taks and getting a 2000 litre kids paddling pool.

But if your going to use the tanks you can't raise many babys. Use the undergravel filters. Keep it outside and let it go green. Once it's green add some daphnia.

The babys will eat the green stuff untill they can get the daphnia in their mouth and then they will eat them.

You would be better off with a paddling pool though as the daphnia in a tank will soon be eaten and you will have to culture brinshrimp.

Try to stick with live foods as long as possible, as this brings out the best in your babys. One you go on to dried foods you will have to do more maintance on the water.


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 21, 2006, 5:10 AM

Post #3 of 25 (1804 views)
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Re: [zoul] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
Where can I buy daphnia? Do you think they'll have it at Petsmart? I have tube of unhatched brine shrimp that I could use.


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 21, 2006, 5:21 AM

Post #4 of 25 (1803 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
I think I'm going to use the 32 gal rubbermaid, and keep it outside and "let it go green". In what form does daphnia come in when you buy it? How do I culture it if it comes as unhatched eggs?


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 21, 2006, 10:19 AM

Post #5 of 25 (1789 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
If I do frequent water changes from my pond, will the water have enough live food in it until they're big enough for brine shrimp? What kinds of plants should I put in the rubbermaid?


zoul
Member

Jun 21, 2006, 7:20 PM

Post #6 of 25 (1779 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
http://www.caudata.org/daphnia/

Dear maverickr413

I put the daphnia web site up first, just in case.

Green water (inflosora) is first food after the fry have absorbed their egg sacks. Daphnia also eat it.

As soon as the fry are large enough they will start eating the baby daphnia and grow fast, soon they will be eating the adults. Try and save your brine shrimps untill your fry are over an inch about a month. (with adaquate cultures of daphnia)

Next year you might whant to start your daphnia culter right at the beging of spring.

Dried foods such as flake food should be left until quite late or as late as you can leave it. As the water quality will change quite rapidly when feeding these priority foods.


larz1
Koi Kichi


Jun 21, 2006, 7:34 PM

Post #7 of 25 (1779 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
Water changes from your main pond will help keep to seed the tank more quickly with algae. Petsmart should have what you need for fry food ie. liquifry, brine shrimp, algae pellets (which you can grind up if the water doesn't green quickly enough).
Lots and lots of aeration is important as your water will not be filtered at first. Parrots feather, water celery, water lettuce, and water hyacinth would be good options for plant cover as they provide shelter, food suppliment, and will keep the water in better shape.
50% Daily water changes from your pond water will keep ammonia buildup in check. It would be best to remove the old water by siphoning fromt the bottom in order to remove solid waste at the same time.


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 21, 2006, 9:29 PM

Post #8 of 25 (1772 views)
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Re: [larz1] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
Right now, they aer about this big [ ], to this big [ ]. What will they be eating at this size? I'll go to Petsmart or Petco today and see what they have. On the website you gave me, it said that I could catch them in a pond or lake. Could I just scoop them up with a fine mesh attached to a coat hanger like it says? Are they big enough to tell if you have any?


(This post was edited by maverickr413 on Jun 21, 2006, 9:35 PM)


larz1
Koi Kichi


Jun 21, 2006, 9:58 PM

Post #9 of 25 (1769 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
For the first week or so they eat mostly their egg sacks and algae. I've never caught daphnia like that so I really can't tell you how well it will work, but give it a try. Why buy stuff when you can scoop it up insteadWink


utsuri
Koi Lover

Jun 21, 2006, 11:10 PM

Post #10 of 25 (1763 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
Tough to do in such a small container. But if that is what you have to work with, use the larger. That space extra space will pay off for you. Infusoria is the best food source for the fry once they finish the yolk sac. It is also the easiest to get going.

To raise them. Use the smaller container for the culture of these tiny creatures. Fill it full with decholrinated water. Take some leaves from around the yard. Make sure they haven't been in contact with chemicals. Put them in it. Do not worry about airstones in this. Put this in direct sun until it goes green. Once you get this started it is hard to kill it.
To feed this simply scoop out a couple of cups of the green water and put it into the fry container. To replentish the water in the culture just add fresh dechlorinated water to it.
The only thing to worry about is the smell. You do not want it to smell rancid. That means hte culture is bad.

While I have fry I keep this going until they reach about 2 inches in size. over time it will only become a supplement to thier diet. When the fry reach about a half an inch I will feed baby live brine shrimp as well as infusoria. As they continue to grow, you can start to mix in some crushed flake food or pellets. Just be careful when doing this. Feed any prepared foods very slowly to make sure that it is all getting eaten. If not you will foul your water very quickly if you are ot careful.

If you are going to use any type of filter use only a sponge filter with a very small air pump. As this ages it will not only support the biological needs but it will also trap those tiny organisms in the sponge. The fry will constantly pick at it.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Utsuri


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2006, 1:40 AM

Post #11 of 25 (1760 views)
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Re: [utsuri] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
I just bought some small baby fish food from petsmart. It's called "Small Fry" and is made by Wardley. I also bought "First Bites" made by hikari. Do these sound they'll work for the fry? When should I start feeding them with these foods? How long does it take for the leaves to make the infusoria?


(This post was edited by maverickr413 on Jun 22, 2006, 1:50 AM)


utsuri
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2006, 2:51 AM

Post #12 of 25 (1755 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
I really varies on how well the culture takes. I usually start 4 batches at the same time. The first one to take is the one I use. I have had them get going in about a week.
The foods that you bought I think are really small pellets. Right? If so They will be too big to use right now.

If you have trouble getting the infusoria culture going, then try newly hatched brine shrimp. They will eat that for sure. As for any prepared foods. Crushed goldfish flakes works pretty good. Just be careful feeding crushed anything it is really easy to over feed.

It is time to start feeding when you see the fry hanging around the top. Usually a week after hatching they are done with the yolk sac and ready to eat tiny things.


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2006, 3:07 AM

Post #13 of 25 (1751 views)
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Re: [utsuri] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
The "Small Fry" baby fish food that I bought is liquid, and the other stuff is very small pellets. I just filled a 10 gal tank with pond water and leaves. I also fillled a 32 gal rubbermaid ( this is what I'll be keeping the fry in) with pond water, some algae from the pond, and some parrots feather. While filling the rubbermaid, I accidentally put in about 5 fry. I put in 2 airstones on a about 3/4 power, and put in 3 drops of the liquid "Small Fry" food. I lost the directions for culturing brine shrimp. Do they need airstones? Do I just put the newly hatched brine shrimp straight into the rubbermaid with the fry? I think the fry are done with their eggsacks because, they have no bulges around their stomachs.


utsuri
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2006, 3:44 AM

Post #14 of 25 (1749 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
If the fry are a week old they are done with yolksac. Better get some brine shrimp going pretty quick until you get the infusoria going.

you will need the following for brine shrimp hatchery

small container bottle shaped that will hold about a half gallon of water
salt the stuff for saltwater aquariums
dechlor
tap water
air pump and stone
possible heater
thermometer
Fresh brine shrimp eggs
Airline tubing
brine shrimp net

Mix dechlorinated tap water with about 5 tablespoons of salt per half gallon. Put in airstone and heat to 80 degrees. Put in about half a teaspoon of eggs. That should last a few days with so few fry. That is as long as they will live anyway. Don't bother feeding them. Wait about 30 hrs and Wha-La. You have baby brine shrimp.
harvesting is the tricky part. You do not want to get any shells in with the fry. Bad News!!!!!
Turn off air pump and heat. Move hatchery container to a dark place. Shine a flashlight through the side of the container near the bottom. This will attract them to the bottom and the eggs shells will float to the top. Give it a few minutes. Then insert separate airline into the container and siphon from the bottom only into the brine shrimp net. This will ensure that you are getting the shrimp only. You will only need about 10% of the brine shrimp population per feeding. Take these to the fry and put them in with out the saltwater.

After you have harvested for your feeding just turn the air pump back on. Do not refill the hatchery with water. When you are through with the first hatch start another from scratch and so on.

Give them as many feedings as you have time. 4 to 5 per day will get the fry growing on good.

After a few days you should infusoria growing. When you do you can alternate feedings. A few cups of infusoria "green water" for one feeding then brine the next. before you know it they will be an inch long and your life gets much easier.


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2006, 11:05 AM

Post #15 of 25 (1735 views)
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Re: [utsuri] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
I've got a batch of brine shrimp eggs in a 2.5 gal tank of saltwater ( for saltwater tanks), and a 10 gal tank with leaves and some algae to grow infusoria. So, I'll be able to feed thes to my fry in a couple days. Sice I'm raising the brine shrimp in a 2.5 gal tank, how should I seperate the shrimp from the egg shells? How will I know when the infusoria is ready?


larz1
Koi Kichi


Jun 22, 2006, 7:21 PM

Post #16 of 25 (1726 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
Utsuri's flashlight & siphon tube method should do the trick. Brine shrimp swim, egg shells float to the top, and the little buggers are easily attracted to lightWink.


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2006, 7:47 PM

Post #17 of 25 (1725 views)
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Re: [larz1] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
A turkey baster would work right? What would happen if the egg shells got into the rubbermaid of fry?


larz1
Koi Kichi


Jun 22, 2006, 7:55 PM

Post #18 of 25 (1724 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
I've never gotten any in there so I can't tell you first hand. Maybe someone else has.
The Turkey baster should work, but it will be kind of slow.


utsuri
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2006, 10:47 PM

Post #19 of 25 (1720 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
A few are nothing to worry about. When I first started hatching brine shrimp, about 15 years ago, I didn't know any better. I just poured in the whole mix. The result was dead fish. I was told by a several with expirience that the shells were not digestible and they had likely caused intestinal impaction.
I have avoided adding the shells since. You can buy shell-less eggs. They are hard to find and in my expirience they produce a lower hatch rate. So stick with regulars.


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2006, 10:54 PM

Post #20 of 25 (1719 views)
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Re: [utsuri] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
I was just wondering what would happen.


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 23, 2006, 12:07 AM

Post #21 of 25 (1715 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
I never saw the fish mating, or laying eggs, so I have no idea what kind of fish these are giong to be. How large do koi have to be to spaawn? What about goldfish, comets and shubunkins?

My dad made me downgrade to a 20 gal rubbermaid because there wasn't enough room for it where I want it to be.


(This post was edited by maverickr413 on Jun 23, 2006, 12:08 AM)


zoul
Member

Jun 23, 2006, 7:02 AM

Post #22 of 25 (1704 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
Oh problems problems problems huh ???

So i'm not sure if this is your first koi spawning or not. But i can tell you this..... Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.....

So next year you will be prepared right ?? You will let your dad know exactley where you would like your 2000 Litre paddling pool. You will also find a place for a safe source of daphnia, you will of course start your cultures of inflosora and daphnia at least 2 months before your fish start breading. Later we will discuss the fish you can cross bread to get the fish you can sell.

The thing is with liquid fry foods and brine shrimp. You can have problems, although these foods are high in proteins ect they are not natural fresh water foods. And if not eaten they will die or just polute the water...

Inflosora can be cultured in bottles like the 2 litre empty coke bottles. All you have to do is get a lettuce leaf - boil a kettle- mix and leave to cool, then add the boiled water and lettuce leaf to the bottle and leave in direct sunshine.

Alternatively youcould just stick a couple of buckets of soil to a small fry built pond and leave it to the elerments.

Basicly the daphnia and mud in a small paddling pool is just what the japanese do in their mud ponds but we are doing it on a smaller scale. You will find they can realy put on size and colour in a daphnia pond.

As daphnia are like 50% protein and 50% Ruffage nothing gose to waiste. Also daphnia unlike brine shrimp if not eaten they don't die and polute the water.


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 24, 2006, 4:46 AM

Post #23 of 25 (1681 views)
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Re: [zoul] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
Should I put some soil in the 20 gal rubbermaid that I'm using to raise the fry. Are they ok in there with a 50% water change every day, and 4 feedings of liqiud " Small Fry", and " Small Bites"? I will be able to finally be able to feed the fry some brine shrimp tomorrow morning when they hatch. I also put in a cup of water from a 10 gal tank filled with pond water and leaves (I've let this sit for a few days) several times a day. I put parrots feather and algae from my pond in the rubbermaid so the fry could have some cover, and permanent food (if they even eat that).


maverickr413
Koi Lover

Jun 24, 2006, 5:07 AM

Post #24 of 25 (1680 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
How long will it take for the fry to be an inch long? I was just wondering about the growth rate of fry. When will they be ready to be moved into my pond?


zoul
Member

Jun 25, 2006, 1:47 AM

Post #25 of 25 (1662 views)
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Re: [maverickr413] Raising fry in a rubbermaid tub or tank? [In reply to] Can't Post
It could take a while as it depnds how many fish you try and raise and the cramped conditions. I'm not sure as i have never tryed to raise fry in such conditions.

The way i do mine it takes about a month.

 
 
 



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