Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Koi Breeding: Tips on culling

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Tips on culling

riggsmichele
Koi Lover

Jul 13, 2007, 7:13 AM

Post #1 of 11 (2483 views)
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Tips on culling	Can't Post

Beaming new mother here..............

Not really new to the whole breeding thing, have over 80 babies from last year that I am raising, have even sold some. So this is my second year. Last year was definitely a learning experience, it is amazing how well instinct kicks in when raising these little ones.

This year I really paid attention to who was spawning and collected those eggs. I probably have over 100,000 eggs in 3 different tanks. I have found that hyacinth works the best for catching these little buggers. We raised the hyacinth in the greenhouse so had over 50 of them with really hairy roots, and as the different koi came through we would put them in the pond, pull them out when covered (holy moly, I mean covered) with eggs, and put them in the appropriate tank.

So last year, I did not do any culling, I kind of let nature take its course, but this year we are set up a lot better so I know I am going to have to do the dirty deed. Does anyone have suggestions on how this is best done, I am so a fish lover even have a kissing koi that kisses me on the lips daily) can only admit that because of the present company.....

So any suggestions on how to do this without selling my soul.

s_clan
Koi Addict

Jul 13, 2007, 8:40 AM

Post #2 of 11 (2480 views)
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Re: [riggsmichele] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

riggsmichele...

Yeah, It is definately important that if you want to keep only the better fry, you have to be ruthless to the one culled.

So there is no roomfor sympathy!! Unimpressed

We had a similar topic once here...and these are just some of the methods to dispose of the culled...

-heavy dose of anesthetics (probabilty the most peaceful way, but expensive) Unsure

-super icy water Unsure

-back to main pond to nurish the adults Pirate

I can only think of this right now....it's way to grim to ponder over...

With regards, Jarvis

I LOVE THE COLOUR ORANGE
----------------------------------------------------------
1 Kohaku (male)
1 Doitsu Kohaku (female)
1 Taisho Sanke (male)
1 Asagi
1 Kujaku
1 Sakura Ogon
1 Tancho Sanke
1 Karasugoi
1 Ki Matsuba
----------------------------------------------------------

kelwts
Koi Lover

Jul 13, 2007, 1:45 PM

Post #3 of 11 (2475 views)
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Re: [s_clan] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

HEy guys ... I know its NOT my problem but instead of culling why NOT release those frys into our lakes , pond and unused mines.
Let the public enjoy these beautifuk fishes too..

There are lots of public parks that have lakes and ponds too.

NO harm done mah.

Just an idea worth thinking .

riggsmichele
Koi Lover

Jul 14, 2007, 1:56 AM

Post #4 of 11 (2461 views)
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Re: [s_clan] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

We do have a large natural pond we could put them in. It is really large so at least they would have a chance, and If some actually survived, that would be a plus.

I guess what I meant is how do you choose? Do you just stick a net in and pull out a whole bunch? I always read that you are supposed to cull, but not really sure if what that entails, is there a science? Or is it just the luck of the draw?

Thanks again for any advice.....................

ayranjim
Koi Lover

Jul 14, 2007, 7:03 AM

Post #5 of 11 (2459 views)
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Re: [kelwts] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello,there are some things to consider in releasing Koi into ponds or such, one thing is that they can be very destructive to aquatic plants, and that could turn a nice pond into a muddy dump. I raise Koi and from this stand point it is not in my best interest to have Koi ( not common carp) where people can get them for free! And if there are no koi to be caught in a lake, the people must come to me to buy their Koi, and I set the prices!!!

larz1
Koi Kichi

Jul 15, 2007, 2:22 AM

Post #6 of 11 (2449 views)
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Re: [kelwts] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

Your "brilliant" idea is precisely why our Koi Kichi friends in Australia can no longer import Koi from anywhere in the world, and why their possession is tightly regulated and even illegal in many Australian provinces. Carp of ANY kind released into the wild quickly become a nuisance fish for native species and well intentioned releases just as you suggest are a continuing problem around the world. Here in the U.S.A. there is an infestation of Carp native to S.E. Asia that is literally destroying the fisheries habitat in a major river and threatening to do the same to one of our major freshwater lakes along the Canadian border. Bad Idea, every time.

In Reply To

larz1
Koi Kichi

Jul 15, 2007, 2:32 AM

Post #7 of 11 (2446 views)
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Re: [riggsmichele] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

Step One... What are the parents???
That little piece of information is how you set your goals.
For your culling to be most productive you begin with any with physical defects like flared gills, deformed heads/mouths/fins, missing body parts, etc...
After the survivors of round one you begin culling out anything that does not fit the genetics of the parents. If your spawn is Kohaku x Kohaku, you would cull anything that didn't look like it had good Kohaku characteristics. All black, white, brown, dull yellow koi would be culled.
As time passes you become more selective. You look for the best of the best at each successive culling in order to reduce the demands on your hatchery/growout pond while preserving the Koi that show the greatest potential.
If you are very lucky at the end of the day you will have one or two to be proud of, and a bunch of cheap pondfish to sell off to pay the feed bill.
So, show us some pix of the parents so we can predict the best type of offspring for you to focus on.

s_clan
Koi Addict

Jul 17, 2007, 1:28 PM

Post #8 of 11 (2418 views)
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Re: [riggsmichele] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

riggsmichele...

Why culling is all about is pulling out all the fry that are eithers malformed or have the undesirable trait that you don't want to pass on...

It's all up to you....since not all fry survive...and provided that you have a big enough facility, I would just keep them all if I were you....let nature take out the weak...

With regards, Jarvis

I LOVE THE COLOUR ORANGE
----------------------------------------------------------
1 Kohaku (male)
1 Doitsu Kohaku (female)
1 Taisho Sanke (male)
1 Asagi
1 Kujaku
1 Sakura Ogon
1 Tancho Sanke
1 Karasugoi
1 Ki Matsuba
----------------------------------------------------------

riggsmichele
Koi Lover

Jul 19, 2007, 1:20 AM

Post #9 of 11 (2395 views)
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Re: [larz1] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for the reply, that is kind of what I just did with my year old ones.

We caught them all and went through them, I kept my favorite ones for my growing mirror pond. I actually had 8 that were BEAUTIFUL. So happy.

Then we were more selective and kept about 30. These guys are in one of the round swimming pools in the greenhouse. We had to keep the Big Fat Ogon as a novelty, the rest are a nice assortment. Hard to take pics because they are in such a huge pond.

We started selling the rest, and they are going pretty quick, whatever I do not sell, my local pond place said they would take.

Paid for there food, so that was good.

Cant believe we forgot to take pics as we were catching them, it was an afterthought. We caught over 100 fish Sunday though, it is Wednesday, and I am still sore. Next time we will have a designated picture taker! That is the one thing I regret, luckily there will be a next time, as I have 1000's of fry right now.

What we thought was really strange, is there was not one deformed fish in the batch from the year old ones.

So for the new fry, how old are they at round 1? The spawning was last wednesday, tons have hatched, and tons have died, but still have 1000's. I syphoned out the tank yesterday, and could not believe how many carcasses there were.

I will try and find my pics of the parents. It would be hard to take pics of them as well because they are in a pond with 20 Koi.

Also, I am pretty much dumbfounded trying to figure out what my koi are, the ogons are easy, but as for the rest???????

larz1
Koi Kichi

Jul 19, 2007, 3:57 AM

Post #10 of 11 (2392 views)
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Re: [riggsmichele] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

A lot of deformities self cull in the early fry stage, especially those with gill issues, swim bladder deformities, etc... If the water gets just a little bit off, the poor go down quickly. It still pays to cull remaining malformations like poorly formed fins, bent spines, flared gill plates, at around 1 1/2-2". After that, culling every other week for quality is good. Baby beni and sumi can come and go several times at these stages of growth, and if beni is seen at 2" only to fade at 3", you might as well kiss it goodbye. Even it it comes back it will never be stable or strong.
Baby Sumi on the other hand is tricky. Sanke sumi and Utsuri/showa sumi behave differently and are difficult to cull for quality unless you've had a lot more practice than I have. Look for some good insight on Utsuri/Showa sumi in the Singapore forum. GCSpyder and the guys have done some very good growout studies on them and you can learn a lot from them.

riggsmichele
Koi Lover

Jul 20, 2007, 12:31 AM

Post #11 of 11 (2379 views)
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Re: [larz1] Tips on culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for the info, I will check all those things out. I did see the self culling happen, now that you mention it.

That would make sense as to why there are so many carcasses when I syphon out the bottom of the tank the fry are in.

Took some pics last night, but forgot to bring my camera to work. I have these two babies from last year that are amazing. (at least to me), and would love to have some comments.

Thanks again.

Keep Koing...........

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