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anyone tell me how to start with breeding

wwmikey
Koi Lover

Jul 24, 2003, 8:48 AM

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anyone tell me how to start with breeding	Can't Post

hi ya

well i have around 11 koi in my front 220 gal. pond, i would really like to get them to breed

they are all ranging in size from 4-7" a few pushing 8 inches. and i would really like to get them to breed. i am not to sure where to start.

how can i sex these fish? i use to breed tropical fish and they where very easy to sex.

but back to koi, how do i tell when they are ready to breed>? and should i place the koi in one of the tanks i house them in for the cold winters here in canada. that is a 50 gal, and the other is a 70 gal.

so i know to remove the fish ones they have eggs in there or else they will eat them. and dont want taht to happen.

any info would be great, not looking to breed anything fancy koi for the first time, just want to get a start in this. nothing like raising your own fish.

thanks for your time.. and look forward to hearing from you.

mike bays

wwmikey@yahoo.com

wwmikey
Koi Lover

Jul 24, 2003, 9:39 AM

Post #2 of 20 (3010 views)
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Re: [wwmikey] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

sorry one more thing the koi are about 2 years old, got them off a guy in the local paper, i had gold fish before but always wanted to go with koi thats why i changed, gold fish are now in a tank in the kids room

douglezzz
Koi Lover

Jul 24, 2003, 8:26 PM

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Re: [wwmikey] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

Usually a 2-3 year koi is 10-16 or more inches at that age.
It varies allot due to water temp, feeding habits and tank volume.
220 gallons is no where near enough to house 11 koi as they grow. Reallistically, if it they get to 18 inches in that environment it would be very minimal for only 2 koi, as a hospital tank.
Spawning is a mess. MAJOR amounts of eggs/milt as in a minimum of 1000 eggs and up over 100,000 in some cases, so they say.
I had a spawn a little while back and venture to say I have thousands and thousands of babies in my spillout area.
My spillout drain is probably 2200 gallons and I'll have to start culling them out as soon as I can see color patterns.
Breeding koi is a whole nother ball game.
They don't mate like tropicals. More like a pack of wolves flying around and banging the females against the pond for hours and hours until they drop the eggs. Then the milt, the smell and in a tank....ammonia. low oxygen etc.etc.
Breeding koi in tanks would be like raising horses in an apartment .
Good article here
http://www.akca.org/library/build1.htm

wwmikey
Koi Lover

Jul 24, 2003, 11:22 PM

Post #4 of 20 (2996 views)
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Re: [douglezzz] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

this pond is just the newest one. i have 2 other ponds and soon to be another lage pond next year

i have a 80 gal, and a 130 gal in the back yard, and the 220gl is in the fron

we just bought 5 acres of land beside up and we will be taken a bob cat in there next spring and digging out a small 5 foot deep by 10 feet wide, by 15 foot long pond there. that is where alot of my fish will end up come mid spring next year.

just wanted to see if it was posible to get a few of my koi to breed this year so i did not have to spend a arm and a leg on koi from the store. been trying to get some koi shipped in but seems all the fish farms in the usa dont ship to canada. which does me no good at all.

also just picked up a hot tub shell and ha it installed on the send floor of the house, this is going to be where i house my koi for the long cold winters here. i figer thats much bigger and better for them for the winter.

thanks for the advice :)

douglezzz
Koi Lover

Jul 24, 2003, 11:31 PM

Post #5 of 20 (2993 views)
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Re: [wwmikey] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

Now yer talkin !
Just winter them over and next spring, as soon as you get that pond done and put them in they may spawn like crazy, providing they are mature enough.
Hot tubs work great as small ponds. Nice and smooth,easy to clean.
Hey.. It's almost winter up there now isn't it ? LOL
One thing about it... you guys have morels and elk !
You'll be ready next spring. for sure. Breed the ones you have. You never know what you might get.
Thats over 5000 gallons. Thats the way to go.
Be good. Stay warm
Wink

wwmikey
Koi Lover

Jul 25, 2003, 2:48 AM

Post #6 of 20 (2988 views)
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Re: [douglezzz] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

the ponds i have now are just water features..hhehee

the real big ones come next year..my gola is to put a new pond every year in that feild. see no one breeds koi here in manitoba, all koi in the shops are shipped in from over seas. so goal would be to get a nice little farm going. just do it slow and steady and we will see how she goes.

but we are taking a few years in that.

Koiman6
Koi Lover

Jul 25, 2003, 8:23 AM

Post #7 of 20 (2983 views)
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Re: [wwmikey] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

I envy the fact that you have 5 acres of land to put ponds. My goal is to become a breeder as well. To breed koi and try and sell them to aquarium stores and garden centers is possible and you could fairly easily breed koi of the quality necessary to compete with other american breeders and isreali breeders, but to be able to compete with japanese breeders is a whole other level. Good Luck maybe in 20 years we will be attending the "North American Koi Show" (assuming the hobby grows to that level) and watching how our home bred koi are doing. Wink

(This post was edited by Koiman6 on Jul 25, 2003, 8:24 AM)

wwmikey
Koi Lover

Jul 25, 2003, 8:28 AM

Post #8 of 20 (2981 views)
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Re: [Koiman6] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

thanks mate

that would be my goal as well. when i was about 10 yeras old i started to breed tropical fish and was selling them to the local pet stores. i had about 6 tanks in my room all ranging in size from 10 gallons to my largest one that was 70gallons.

kinda got tired of the whole topical fish thing when i was about 16 and god help me i dont know why. come next year i was trying to buy back tanks i got rid of. now 23 and wanting to move onto the great koi.

thanks for your help mate! i am building a new above gorund pon within 2 weeks, just getting the pump for it in about 20 mins for the store, and then all the wood next.. wanted to try find a cheeper liner to but in there any ideas?

good luck with your koi mate. and if you want to talk off the board. email is

wwmikey@yahoo.com

jw4467
Koi Lover

Aug 14, 2003, 9:44 AM

Post #9 of 20 (2883 views)
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Re: [douglezzz] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm almost afraid to ask. Everyone mentions culling - and I do understand the concept and the reason. I now have a pond of my first babies. . .many babies How do I cull? Frown

jw4467
Koi Lover

Aug 14, 2003, 9:55 AM

Post #10 of 20 (2881 views)
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Re: [wwmikey]culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

Everyone mentions culling, but no-one really says how. I have my first batch of fry, and although it's really exciting, I know my pond cannot sustain them. So, what is the humane way to cull fry that are less tha 1/2 inch. Please don't laugh (at least not too loud.)

micky
Koi Lover

Aug 20, 2003, 7:06 PM

Post #11 of 20 (2809 views)
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Re: [jw4467] culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi jw4467
I am into a bit of koi breeding, lastest batch was the 3rd. Culling is necessary simply because there are too many to keep, so you just want to keep the best. But to cull fries while they are very young require much experience. So I normally just start by separating the largest fries to prevent them from eating the smaller ones, there will be many that will not survive, just leave it to nature "survivor of the fittest". When the fries are into the 2nd or 3rd month you should be able to tell which are of good quality, those that are deformed surely has to go. Its not uncommon to find 30,000 to 50,000 fries on the first few days of hatching but after the 3rd week or so this figure can go way down to just 2 to 3K. If you are into serious breeding you need to separate the fries to another tank. Goodluck!
Regards, Micky

(This post was edited by micky on Aug 20, 2003, 7:13 PM)

jw4467
Koi Lover

Aug 21, 2003, 10:23 AM

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Re: [micky] culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

It's going to be a while before I know what to look for. I'm still trying to determine if these are Comets, Koi or a mixture. How big a pond/tank do you need to deal with 1,000 fry and how fast do they grow? If they hatched in July, what size might they be by October? (New Jersey weather, not yet freezing).

micky
Koi Lover

Aug 28, 2003, 2:13 PM

Post #13 of 20 (2737 views)
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Re: [jw4467] culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi jw
Size of tank should be ample for 2 males & 1 female, 6x4x2ft is what i use. It is proven that a good size koi will spawn about 100K eggs per kg of their weight (refer Koi Encylopedia). The eggs will get eaten up if you do not remove the adult kois quickly after spawning. So far, out of the many thousands of fries that survived, I kept only about 10 of them, the other option is to start a farm! Goodluck!
Regards, Micky

micky
Koi Lover

Aug 29, 2003, 10:26 AM

Post #14 of 20 (2720 views)
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Re: [jw4467] culling [In reply to]	Can't Post

I missed out your questions about growth. In 4 months, you will probably see the fries grow up to a variety of sizes. A small group will be 6" to 7" (potential jumbo) and the majority will be between 2" to 5". This depend on the metabolism of each fry. Hope this is useful.
Regards, Micky

lilmsgod
New User

Sep 8, 2003, 6:24 PM

Post #15 of 20 (2646 views)
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Re: [wwmikey] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

well im stuck,got 10 koi given,have not got a clue what kind or if myfish tanks big enough to keep them in Frown

?, i put 8 fish in one tank there is 3x3" 3x6" roughly 0ne 10",the tank size is 4ft by 2ft by 2ft im stuck,the other two fish i put in about 90gallon aquarium, but thats a weird shape like a hexogan,both tanks have filters and lighting but im not sure if there large enough,also i dont want to end up with babies,i have a fibre glass pond outside but its got no pump no filter just hole in ground,anysuggestions would be a great help,also its winter just around corner so does not seem fantastic idea to dump koi in outside pond its cold as it is!!!!!!

BranMuffin
Koi Kichi

Sep 10, 2003, 10:12 PM

Post #16 of 20 (2608 views)
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Re: [lilmsgod] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

Two of the humanistic (?) ways that people get rid of koi is to either freeze them in the freezer or put them to sleep using Cloves of Oil. You'll have to make a decision as to which ones you want to put to sleep. Some people advocate chopping off their heads (quick and easy), but I'm not one that can do that.

Throwing them outside the pond and letting them flop around is not a good idea and a slow death.

I use "Cloves of Oil" which is cheap and what I feel is the most humane way.

Just my take on it.

Best Regards
Bran

A Koi Pond is never FINISHED, it's always subject to improvement.
Drives the Spouse Crazy!

lilmsgod
New User

Sep 12, 2003, 6:35 PM

Post #17 of 20 (2587 views)
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Re: [BranMuffin] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

i dont want to kill my fish,i quite like them,at the moment they seem happy enough in glass tanks,but after reading about they need so much space and water and all that ph stuff,i was wondering if tanks are big enough,id prefer them to be in the pond,but havent got a clue how to do that and also pond is not level think its sunk,i dont fancy digging hole,so any suggestions be good,but chopping there heads off are poisioning them def off the menu,i know a couple off the names now two are kohaku,one is Tashio Sanke,the rest look funny got big shiney scales,3 white ones well white sort off silver, what do i need for outside pond? thank you Smile

BranMuffin
Koi Kichi

Sep 13, 2003, 9:44 PM

Post #18 of 20 (2566 views)
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Re: [lilmsgod] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

If you don't like digging then you could build a pond using 2" x 12" Redwood lumber for your framing and cover the inside with a liner.

Lot's of peeps do this and it works quite well.

I have not done this myself but one of our member's have built a couple of them and I'm sure that he would be more than happy to guide you if you decide to do so. His name is Efren Gabrielle and you will find his Name and link if you go to the Koi Show Threads.

Today, he is taking five fish to a local koi show. This is his first time so he's really excited about it. Wish him luck.

You could also go to your local Home Depot, Lowe's (wherever) and buy a prefab unit. Problem there is that you're limitted as to the size and depth.

Best Regards
Bran

A Koi Pond is never FINISHED, it's always subject to improvement.
Drives the Spouse Crazy!

(This post was edited by BranMuffin on Sep 13, 2003, 9:47 PM)

lilmsgod
New User

Sep 15, 2003, 6:31 PM

Post #19 of 20 (2544 views)
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Re: [lilmsgod] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

decided to get pond taken out out and refitted,no hole digging for me,fish can stay indoors for winter,freinds great for digging holes Laugh

, i figured pond is 900 gallon roughly,so orderded pump that will do 3000 gallons and filter so hopefully everything be fine look foward to spring put them in,(jobs a good un),and no chipped nails

yamabuki
Koi Lover

Oct 12, 2003, 6:30 PM

Post #20 of 20 (2373 views)
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Re: [wwmikey] anyone tell me how to start with breeding [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi

Try getting a small number of fry from a breder and raising them .This is a popular way to go in Australia for people who dont have room to breed (or want to ).

Search for (options)

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