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koi heavy with eggs

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Chingbee
Koi Lover

Feb 28, 2003, 9:18 AM

Post #1 of 29 (3874 views)
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koi heavy with eggs	Can't Post

My showa is heavy with eggs, I have put her into my old small pond with 3 males in it. Should I put spawning materials? I will not be using any of the eggs but would like to rid her of the eggs in case of egg impaction. Am I doing this right?

Please help Dr. Tan and others. Thanks

Chingbee

dttk
Senior Member

Feb 28, 2003, 12:17 PM

Post #2 of 29 (3863 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chingbee, if you're sure the showa is ready and there are one or two interested males chasing her, then you did the right thing. Yes, you need some spawning materials for the eggs to cling on to. Mop heads, water plants, nylon ropes loosened into strings, etc are suitable.

However if the showa behaves normally and there are no signs of any male pursuing her, it is best to just observe. Egg impaction is not common. I have one koi that is swollen with eggs for years already but she is still ok. If the conditions are not right for spawning, the eggs are usually absorbed. Smile

Always friendly :)

(This post was edited by dttk on Feb 28, 2003, 12:39 PM)

Chingbee
Koi Lover

Feb 28, 2003, 1:19 PM

Post #3 of 29 (3858 views)
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Re: [dttk] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dr Tan,

Even if the koi is doing okey with the swollen belly, still the body is not nice to look at Crazy

, how long then should we leave the koi's in the spawning pond before we give up if nothing happens?

Ching

dttk
Senior Member

Feb 28, 2003, 1:58 PM

Post #4 of 29 (3856 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chingbee, if the Showa is showing signs of spawning, then it shouldn't take more than a week to spawn. If it hasn't, it just means it's not ready. Eventhough the belly is still swollen and it doesn't look nice, there's nothing much you could do until nature takes it course. Hopefully when the eggs are absorbed, the swelling decreases. Smile

Always friendly :)

HWONG
Koi Addict

Feb 28, 2003, 3:20 PM

Post #5 of 29 (3852 views)
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Re: [dttk] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

I am told by veterans that to encourage the koi to spawn, most would put the koi with 1 or 2 males in a FG tank or Pond (in your case) with fresh water. You can place nets or any soft media for the koi to lay the eggs. After spawning, the water will be very high in Ammonia and you either transfer the kois back to the pond or do water change.

Another point to note, apparently from the experience of Japanese breeders, after spawning, the HI of the koi will not be good anymore. This is also why they recommend that males and females be kept in seperate ponds.For kois that they are not meant for breeding, they dont bother. As Dr Tan has stated, the eggs are absorbed by the koi.

Chingbee
Koi Lover

Feb 28, 2003, 3:34 PM

Post #6 of 29 (3850 views)
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Re: [dttk] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

ok thanks Dr. Tan Wink

dttk
Senior Member

Mar 1, 2003, 9:53 AM

Post #7 of 29 (3833 views)
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Re: [HWONG] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for that extra bit of info, HWong Sly

.
Always friendly :)

Chingbee
Koi Lover

Mar 1, 2003, 10:35 AM

Post #8 of 29 (3832 views)
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Re: [dttk] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

The koi has spawned, now what should I do? My husband wants to try having fry's out of this spawning, shall I leave them inside the small pond? or have to remove the parents from it?

Ching

dttk
Senior Member

Mar 1, 2003, 11:23 AM

Post #9 of 29 (3828 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Wow! That was fast! Congratulations Sly

. You must separate the parents from the eggs. If you find alot of eggs clinging onto the spawning material, best to transfer them to another tank. Change 50% of pond water where the parents are and salt it to 0.3%. This will remove ammonia and promote healing. Monitor water parameters daily and transfer parents back to main pond after a few days if all seems fine. The tank with spawning material and eggs is your hatchery. Make sure that the water in it is very clean and well oxygenated at all times. This is a requirement for successful hatching and survival of frys. Ammonia must be nil. Add a dilute solution of Malachite Green into the tank water to disinfect the eggs. Have airstones at slow and quiet bubbling all the time. Change abt 20% water daily but do it gently so as not to disturb the eggs. The frys should appear within a week depending on water temperature. Increase aeration a little bit. Daily water change is a must. Start feeding with liquid fry food for 10 days, then powdered food. Once feeding has commenced, more water has to be changed daily, maybe 25-50% in order to prevent massive fry death. Don't forget that frys may develope in the spawning pond too. By then the parents should be back in the main pond. As soon as the frys are a little bigger, set up a filtration system to remove ammonia and to reduce the need for daily water change. Smile

Always friendly :)

Chingbee
Koi Lover

Mar 1, 2003, 11:40 AM

Post #10 of 29 (3826 views)
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Re: [dttk] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dr. Tan,

Thanks for your quick reply, however, our help forgot to put the spawning materials last night and I think the eggs have already cling to the pond. So should I just remove the parents back to the big pond and leave the spawning pond as is?
Do you think the parents would be greatly stress out in the big pond? The pond is quite big so I don't think they will be disturb overly by the other koi's.

Ching

dttk
Senior Member

Mar 1, 2003, 11:52 AM

Post #11 of 29 (3826 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chingbee, in that case, remove the parents back to main pond and observe them closely. Better to salt your pond to 0.1% (1kg salt to 1ton water). Good luck! Smile

Always friendly :)

Chingbee
Koi Lover

Mar 1, 2003, 12:05 PM

Post #12 of 29 (3824 views)
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Re: [dttk] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

thank you so much!!
you've been a great help! Wink

Gabriele
Koi Lover

Mar 5, 2003, 4:12 AM

Post #13 of 29 (3782 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chingbee, congratulations on your accomplishment. soon you will see a whole bunch of jerking commas. they look like mosquito larvae. keep on eye on your water parameter.esp.ammonia. air stone is what they need all the time for oxygen. feed the fry every more often but only a pinch on every section of the spawning tank.dont put a lot of food in the pond. if you can feed them newly hatched brine shrimps, thats the best food for koi fry.replacing water 10 percent daily and do it slowly. use plastic tube to siphon the water in and out. so you can stabilized the water temp.

enjoy your new babies

Efren

Chingbee
Koi Lover

Mar 5, 2003, 11:06 AM

Post #14 of 29 (3770 views)
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Re: [Gabriele] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes Gabriel, yesterday I saw the fry's swimming like mosquito larvae, I had to scoop them up to see them closer to make sure they're not mosquito larvae Crazy

We feed them powdered food of the koi starting today and some egg yolk, how do you make the egg yolk become powdery?

Ching

Gabriele
Koi Lover

Mar 5, 2003, 10:08 PM

Post #15 of 29 (3759 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ching ,hard boiled eggs and mixed the yolk with a little bit of pond water. Be careful feeding them eggyolk too much.It will trigger the ammonia instantly if not eaten. Let us know how are they doing.

Efren

Chingbee
Koi Lover

Mar 6, 2003, 11:09 AM

Post #16 of 29 (3749 views)
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Re: [Gabriele] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

thanks Gabriel Cool

micky
Koi Lover

Mar 11, 2003, 9:52 AM

Post #17 of 29 (3718 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Gabriele, Chingbee
I am also currently experimenting with breeding. My koi spawned about 8 days ago. One of the most difficult thing to do is removing waste from the tank bottom, some fries prefer to stay at the bottom so siphoning will always include many such fries. I wonder how you guys manage this? After some trial & error, I concluded that it is best to have the fries in a filtered tank, if there is a sub-pump this can post a problem, so I put the pump inside a peforated container and wrap it with a ladies stockings, this will prevent the fries from going into the pump. In this way, the debris can stay in the tank for a while until the fries are big enough to be separated by a net. Please share any difficulties you encounter in breeding ..
Regards, Micky

Chingbee
Koi Lover

Mar 11, 2003, 11:44 AM

Post #18 of 29 (3711 views)
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Re: [micky] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

since my fry's are all inside the spawning pond (small) I had to put a screen (very small holes) around the outlet, what we do is change a percentage of the old water daily while adding new tap water to the pond, this will reduce the ammonia of the water - at first I don't have any idea how to change the water without flushing out the fry's, after several days of high ammonia, most of the fry's died - oh well Unsure

we were not prepared to raise fry's in the first place anyway. This is just a trial and error and we'll see what these fry's look like when they're bigger, I think I only have about 20 fry's left.

Ching

Gabriele
Koi Lover

Mar 12, 2003, 2:02 AM

Post #19 of 29 (3692 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ching,
Don't feel bad about your first spawning.It took me three spawning seasons before I learned to save the fries.First season I've experience, I killed them all because when I replaced their water more than 50 percent and the water temperature dropped down more than 20 degrees and the PH changed instantly.The 2nd time I fed them hardboiled eggyolk a day after hatching, fed them out of control,too much uneaten food in the pond triggered the ammonia and most of them died, only few survived. Third time that was last year,everything went ok,saved thousands of fingerlings and most of them I donated them to the private residential garden pond,I sold some of them and the rest gave them away to friends with ponds and fish tank.
Micky, its really challenge to raised fries especially on their first month.they are very delicate, need extra care and attention.How about siphon the waste into an external clean blue tab or bucket to avoid flushing the small fries.Just net them back to the rearing tank. Minimal feeding is required to this little angels.

good luck

micky
Koi Lover

Mar 18, 2003, 9:54 AM

Post #20 of 29 (3656 views)
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Re: [Gabriele] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Gabriele
I wonder where you are located? The temperature dropping 20deg is quite drastic!. My currenrt experience with spawning is the 4th, the previous was "accidental" and done with no purpose to breed them. Now into the 14th day, I have about 3000 healthy fries ranging from 10 to 18mm. A few of them is growing very fast. I pretty much went thru the same kind of problems you did. Like you suggested, the siphoning to a small bucket is exacty what I am doing. As the fries grow larger they react better, so I just tap the siphon at the area where debris had settled and they just dart away, so hardly any problem with getting rid of debris now. In the first few days it's very difficult as the new fries tend to crowd around and hide behind the debris. Now I am faced with a problem on how to deal with 3000 kois!! Any suggestions on culling?? Smile

Regards, Micky

Gabriele
Koi Lover

Mar 18, 2003, 11:12 PM

Post #21 of 29 (3641 views)
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Re: [micky] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Micky,
Sorry if I got you confused.By the way FYI I reside in California.What I meant 20 degrees changed is water temp. I live in part of Calif. where the weather ranged from 20's all the way up to 100's.If you do koi spawning here in march,which I did in the previous year, the water temp coming from our water supply is in the 50's.If you have a weather temp in 70's or higher the spawning pond water will acclimate close to that temp.thats why last time I did a water changed during the warm weather, the water temp. in the pond drastically changed.
Regarding culling,that will be the hard part.I will separate the bigger ones from the small ones or else the bigger ones will do the culling for you.Watch for those super big fries,( toby) most of the time their body conformation is different from the others.

Congratulations on your babies.

Efren

micky
Koi Lover

Mar 19, 2003, 9:11 AM

Post #22 of 29 (3631 views)
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Re: [Gabriele] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Gabriele
OK, I understand now about the 20deg drop. I have a few gaint fries that has grown to 22 mm in just 2 weeks, it constantly feeds at the bottom, I shall watch if its doing the culling. BTW, what do you feed the fries during this period? I just grind up the normal koi pallets into powder form and feed the whole lot about 3 times a day, 1 tea spoonful each time. Any comments? Smile

Regards, Micky

Gabriele
Koi Lover

Mar 19, 2003, 10:26 PM

Post #23 of 29 (3623 views)
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Re: [micky] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Micky,
If newly hatched brine shrimp is available in your place,that's a good food for them.Otherwise powdered koi pellets is okey.Feed them less but often.As you noticed there's quite of them are pretty big,I would separate them in two more weeks because theres gonna be alot of tiny koi out there, looks like food to them. Make a screened floating basket in the pond for the bigger ones, like a playpen for toddlers. Take good care of those small ones,most of the good quality koi are coming from slow growing fries.

Regards

newgen
Koi Lover

Mar 19, 2003, 11:14 PM

Post #24 of 29 (3621 views)
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Re: [Gabriele] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi guys!

very interesting!
Recently, my Flower Horn breed also! Tongue

so i'm into this topid to...cause its the same thing, "Feeding and taking care of your frys", Right? Cool

Ok, just some additional points...

You can feed newly hatched frys after after 1 or 3 days, depending on the water temperature...
as they are too small, egg yolk is the best food for them. OK, how to feed them?

1st, Boil an egg till hard cook, take out yolk(and you can have the white one Laugh

), and put half or quarter of the egg yolk into a small bottle or plastic cans(about 50ml or so will do), fill it with water(half will do, with drinking water or clean water). Cover up and bottle tight, and give it a shake! a real crazy one Crazy

After that, you'll get like...yellowish water, with lots of bubbles. And you will see...very fine, tiny yolks mixed up in the water(very fine!). Then you can feed it to your frys!

After a few days, you can actaully feed them with baby brine shrimps, daphnia(live or frozen, and some even say you can get dry one? Crazy

not sure man! Laugh

)

and these are for the early stage of the frys...

When they grow big enough, you can actually feed them adult brine shrimps, blood worms, or tiny pallets(or some called them micro pallets)

Guys...pls post some other additional ideas and points too! thanks!

Cheers!
John

micky
Koi Lover

Mar 20, 2003, 9:02 AM

Post #25 of 29 (3612 views)
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Re: [Gabriele] koi heavy with eggs [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Gabriele,
The screen basket is a good idea, I think I will just do that for the biggies. The biggest one has gone from 22mm to 25mm in just one day!

Hi Newgen,
I tried feeding them egg yolks for 2 days after the 3rd day, but it was quite messy. Not so sure if the fries ate them. I under-estimated the poor water condition caused by the uneaten yolks as a result many fries went to meet St. Peters.

I like to know how safe it is to feed them frozen blood worms, is there a risk that such food may be contaminated with harmful bacterias. Also, I have not seen baby brine shrimps in Singapore but found some big ones at the acquariums shops.
Regards, Micky

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