Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Members' Pond: HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER?

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HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER?

LESHUIS
Koi Lover

Apr 18, 2005, 7:16 AM

Post #1 of 14 (2602 views)
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HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER?	Can't Post

HI:
I LIVE IN NORTHWEST WASHINGTON (LYNDEN WA) AND WE HAVE HAD A POND FOR SOME TIME NOW (ABOUT 6 YRS) WE JUST PUT IN A LARGER POND (3 YRS) AND HAVE ALL THE KOI IN IT SMALL & LARGE, LAST SPRING WE GOT A WESTERN PAINTED TURTLE SHE TOOK TO THE POND , KOI & US JUST FINE ANY WAY MY QUESTION WE HAVE LOST ABOUT 5 KOI OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS WITH SORE ALL OVER THEM, (PUT THEM IN A SMALLER POND TO HEAL)
AND SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE MOLD OR A WHITE FUZZ. CAN THIS BE SOMETHING THAT THE TURTLE IS CAUSING IN SOME WAY ? WE HAVE NEVER LOST OUR LARGE FISH BEFORE AND THE TURTLE IS THE ONLY THING DIFFERENT. ANYONE KNOW?

mike c
Koi Kichi

Apr 18, 2005, 9:08 AM

Post #2 of 14 (2595 views)
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Re: [LESHUIS] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

its possible that the turtle took a bite off the koi (this would look like ulcers) and the mold/white fuzz are just infections.

i say, separate your turtle and see what happens

____________________________________

If you know how it works, you'll know how to fix it

hodge
Koi Lover

Apr 19, 2005, 1:38 PM

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Re: [aragorn] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

it also depends on the size of your koi and the turtle. In most cases western's will not try and attack something that is larger than they are. Now thats in most cases. The turtle may snack on the koi once they are dead though.

mike c
Koi Kichi

Apr 19, 2005, 1:52 PM

Post #4 of 14 (2534 views)
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Re: [hodge] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

actually, the fish i had was a good 18-20" in size.
the turtle's shell size is 6-7" (lengthwise)

it killed the fish.

____________________________________

If you know how it works, you'll know how to fix it

dozysod
Koi Lover

Apr 20, 2005, 10:47 PM

Post #5 of 14 (2498 views)
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Re: [aragorn] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

it would be best for you to take the TURTLE out as they do have a lot of bacteria that could make your koi die.
and with turtle they will always kill fish if they can for food.
after you take him out it would be best to put new water in , to cut back on the bacteria from the turtle.

josephandgabby
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2005, 12:25 AM

Post #6 of 14 (2467 views)
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Re: [LESHUIS] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

A few months ago I decided to add a 6" red ear slider to my koi pond as well. Within a week the ammonia and nitrite levels in the pond jumped significantly, making the water unhealthy for fish. I subsequently removed the turtle and my water parameters have returned to normal. I you wish to have turtles, I highly recommend building another pond exclusively for them so your fish won't be affected by the poor water quality.

Joseph
http://www.josephandgabby.com/pond

Three ponds, too many koi, and one very angry wife...
www.JoesPonds.com

hodge
Koi Lover

Jun 3, 2005, 9:30 AM

Post #7 of 14 (2062 views)
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Re: [josephandgabby] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

wow thats weird. How often were you feeding the turtle ? And are you sure the turtles food was not being eaten by the koi ? If he is hungry then i can see that. As far as the bad water levels, well I have never heard of that before but I guess anything is possible. I have seen several ponds where koi and turtles ( some up to 12" ) lived well together. Turtles are dirty eaters and can polute the water more with extra food debris.

koi-ed
Koi Lover

Jun 3, 2005, 1:38 PM

Post #8 of 14 (2021 views)
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Re: [hodge] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

It might be better to keep them separate. Tortoise tend to pollute the pond more than what the typical filters can cope with adesquately. I have seen ponds turning green and visibility badly impacted very quickly once turtles have been introduced. Another factor is that they tend to be fish eaters. Any weak fishes/koi's might be ripe for their taking.

This is based on tropical environments. I believe you are referring to tortoises and not turtles as the latter is salt water based...;-)
Koi-ed

hodge
Koi Lover

Jun 4, 2005, 12:16 AM

Post #9 of 14 (2002 views)
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Re: [koi-ed] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

well tortoise's are land based animals. I think he said it was a western painted witch is an north american turtle. But yes turtles are very dirty eaters, they tear up their food with their claws and alot of dabris falls to the bottom. some people will put in a couple of bottom feeders in the pond to help with that. And as long as the turtle has other smaller fish to feed on they wont mess with the larger koi ( unless the koi dies ). And you are also correct about the filter, you must have a good one and not have the pond over crowded.

Bukitbunggakoi
Koi Lover

Jun 4, 2005, 3:47 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1988 views)
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Re: [LESHUIS] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

Turtles are omnivorous animals, ie they eat both meat and plants. They have a nasty bite and in a pond full of kois is like living in paradise for them. Kois are slow swimmers and tend to forage for food all the time such that they will come in contact with the turtle a lot of time in an enclosed area. The turtle will bite them, kill them and eat them. Turtles also tend to generate lots of waste and the filtration system build for kois is no use for turtles.

Do not mix kois with turtle. Kois have to have a pond to themsleves only!!

Cheers

hodge
Koi Lover

Jun 7, 2005, 12:06 AM

Post #11 of 14 (1967 views)
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Re: [Bukitbunggakoi] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

well i would have to disagree with that. Like I have said, I have seen and heard of many koi ponds housing a couple of turtles. If you dont have any knowledge on turtle, then dont do it. Again as long as there are other smaller fish for them to eat, they will not attack the koi. the only stories i have heard of turtles eating koi is after it dies of other causes. Many reptiles will not attack something that is larger then they are, its just nature. Now if your filter system does not have a bottom drain, then again dont get a turtle they are messy eaters. Dont starve the turtle and your koi should be fine. Now I am talking about koi above 8", anything smaller is a risk.

Bukitbunggakoi
Koi Lover

Jun 7, 2005, 10:57 PM

Post #12 of 14 (1915 views)
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Re: [hodge] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Hodge,

Greetings from Asia.

I do not agree that reptiles will not attack something that is larger than they are. I have seen crocodiles attack buffalos much bigger than they are, I have seen snakes devour hooves animals bigger than they are and I have seen lizards devours insects bigger than they are. True, I admit I have not seen turtles devour kois bigger than they are but I have seen a fully grown farmer bitten by a soft shell turtle.

I do see your point on how to keep turtles and kois together by making sure that the turtles are properly fed and that the kois must be bigger than the turtles. But how does one ensure that the turtles are always fed up? ( sorry for the pun). and ensure that the kois are always wary of the turtles and keep thier distance?

However, I will hold on to my belief and reccomendations that one should never ever put this two animals together.

To do so puts the kois at risks.

hodge
Koi Lover

Jun 7, 2005, 11:44 PM

Post #13 of 14 (1908 views)
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Re: [Bukitbunggakoi] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

you have a good point about how do you know if they are fed. Im not trying to change anyone's ideas of what should be. I just know what I have seen and heard. I just have not heard of any real instances where a turtle has killed a koi larger than 8". As far as the reptiles, a snake wont attack ( unless its in defense mode ) anything it cant swallow. as far as crocks, well they can pretty much eat anything they can catch. Just like a rattlesnake, it wont release its full venom if it strikes a human, he knows he cant eat it so why waiste it. I am just letting you guys know my point of view. I am new to keeping koi myself, but have great knowledge on turtles. I just dont think people should be saying " you cant keep them together " when there are hundreds of koi ponds out there that do and have no issues. I can tell by some of the responses that some of the people who replied have no knowledge on turtles, so im just giving my insight. Cool

josephandgabby
Koi Lover

Jul 8, 2005, 4:32 AM

Post #14 of 14 (1631 views)
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Re: [LESHUIS] HELP ON KOI & TURTLE TOGETHER? [In reply to]	Can't Post

You should never keep turtles in the same pond with koi; regardless of size. I learned this lesson the hard way. I added two adult red ear sliders to our koi pond a few months back. Everything went fine for about six weeks. When I added a few new koi, however, the problems began. Within a few days the turtles had bitten the tails off both new koi, which ultimately led to their deaths. I would highly recommend building a separate pond for your turtles.

http://www.josephandgabby.com/pond
Joseph

Three ponds, too many koi, and one very angry wife...
www.JoesPonds.com

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