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Home: KOI Talk: Members' Pond:
new pond contruction

 






 


chinkstatom
Koi Lover

Jun 16, 2005, 1:48 PM

Post #1 of 13 (1615 views)
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new pond contruction Can't Post

hello everybody i am new to this.
i am constructing a new pond and i am wondering how much will the filters and pumps cost for a pond.


F1rst_Timer
Koi Lover

Jun 16, 2005, 3:15 PM

Post #2 of 13 (1596 views)
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Re: [chinkstatom] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Chinkstatom and welcome,

I'm afraid that you will need to provide more information to allow people to answer your question. The pump and filters are wholly dependant on the size (capacity) of the pond. What size will the pond be ? Will you be using a bottom drain ? Do you want to buy filters or make your own ?
Also where in the world are you ? Prices can vary from country to country, and of course the different currencies.


(This post was edited by F1rst_Timer on Jun 16, 2005, 3:19 PM)


chinkstatom
Koi Lover

Jun 16, 2005, 3:30 PM

Post #3 of 13 (1589 views)
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Re: [F1rst_Timer] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

ok, my kois are not big so i dont really need a big pond for it yet.
I saw this pond kit on ebay..you guys wanna give me an advice on this thing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20507&item=3980878802&rd=1


F1rst_Timer
Koi Lover

Jun 16, 2005, 3:43 PM

Post #4 of 13 (1588 views)
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Re: [chinkstatom] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sorry but I am unable to comment on this ebay filter as I do not have access to ebay from work.

My advice would be to build as large a pond as you have space for or can afford. If you build a small pond you will need to replace it (and upgrade the filters), as the koi grows or if you decide to buy more koi. You will find, as you enter into the hobby, that your pond will NEVER be big enough. I started off with a 300 gallon pond, which was expanded to a 500 gallon pond, which was then completely rebuilt to a 1500 gallon pond. This bigger pond is still not big enough but I have reached the maximum size I have space for.
There is also a saying "Do it once, do it right" (I think someone uses it as a quote on their posts - my apologies for not remembering who it is Blush).


chinkstatom
Koi Lover

Jun 16, 2005, 3:52 PM

Post #5 of 13 (1581 views)
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Re: [F1rst_Timer] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

lol i see. but the problem is i dont have that kind of money to get a really large pond.
well heres some specs about a kit i dont knoe if its any good tho
  • THE POND LINER CONTAINED IN THIS KIT CAN BE CUT DOWN TO A SMALLER SIZE POND, IF NEEDED.
  • This includes everything you need to create your very own pond.
  • Create a 8 ft. by 13 ft. area that is 18" deep and holds up to 1200 gallons of water.
  • Diverter/control valve directs water to a waterfall, fountain or both.
  • Submersible pump is powerful enough to run both a small fountain and a waterfall at the same time.
  • Includes: 110V submersible pump with 1,170 GPH flow rate, 19.5GPM. 1 12ft by 17 ft by .02" PVC liner. 2 extension tubes, 3 fountain heads, PVC hose, hose clamps and diverter valve.



  • F1rst_Timer
    Koi Lover

    Jun 16, 2005, 4:09 PM

    Post #6 of 13 (1577 views)
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    Re: [chinkstatom] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

    Depth is as important for koi keeping as pond size, the deeper the better. 18" isn't really deep enough, I would recommend at least 3 feet depth (an ideal depth would be 5 - 6feet). It may be an option to buy the items separately, using a bigger liner so you could have the same size pond but deeper (say 3 feet) which would double the volume. Obviously you would also need a bigger pump than the one in the kit. I would also recommend you get a filter, I see that there isn't one included in the kit anyway. The box type filters that have a built in UV would do for your purpose, they different sizes and are rated for different pond volumes. Take these claims with a little pinch of salt, and go on the basis that their claim is double what it will actually cope with for a koi pond. The pump would push the water into the filter box and the outlet from the filter could feed a nice waterfall. Don't bother with a fountain, it only gets in the way of viewing your fish and the waterfall should provide enough oxygen to the water.


    andymadd
    Koi Lover


    Jun 16, 2005, 4:14 PM

    Post #7 of 13 (1576 views)
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    Re: [chinkstatom] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

    Hello

    Just read the ebay ad....well all you get for your money is a liner probably cheap pvc a pump and some bits of pipe ....no filter. Really if you are serious about Koi buy some magazines read this forum and work out your budget I am sorry to say there is a minimum you can spend on a pond no matter what size it is. I understand if you feel its all to much money but if you go cheap you will just be dissapointed with the results and you will end up with a dark green smelly puddle in your garden.

    Andy


    chinkstatom
    Koi Lover

    Jun 16, 2005, 4:50 PM

    Post #8 of 13 (1565 views)
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    Re: [andymadd] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

    Thank you for both of your post.
    Ok. can i get a list of all the things i need to build a pond with. i knoe i need a filter and pipe and all those stuff. Should i buy it seperately or should i buy a good pond kit. I dont know what to do sooooo yeah... i still got a lot of time for my fish to grow till it needs the pond but i understand to build a pond it also takes time.


    andymadd
    Koi Lover


    Jun 16, 2005, 5:17 PM

    Post #9 of 13 (1557 views)
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    Re: [chinkstatom] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

    I would buy seperatly as you can be sure of what gear you want to get possibly look on the ol ebay for second hand stuff I have had some real deals on gear.

    Andy


    Koi38
    Senior Member


    Jun 16, 2005, 5:44 PM

    Post #10 of 13 (1544 views)
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    Re: [chinkstatom] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

    Hi chinkstatom and welcome to forumSmile. My advice to you is don't jump the gun. Plan everything, do lots
    of research and do one step at a time. You can buy the kits if you really want to but you don't know if will last
    long or if it will really work the way it shouldCrazy Why you're planning you can save more money and buy/make a descent
    pond and filters. Good luck.Wink

    rgds,
    Jon

    "DuKu Friendly"
    _____________________________________
    "No one is ever too old to know better"

    http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/


    koiguyoz
    Member


    Jun 17, 2005, 6:49 PM

    Post #11 of 13 (1432 views)
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    Re: [chinkstatom] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post


    In Reply To
    ok, my kois are not big so i dont really need a big pond for it yet.
    I saw this pond kit on ebay..you guys wanna give me an advice on this thing?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20507&item=3980878802&rd=1


    I personally believe it is misleading and deceptive to label this a koi pond kit given the size, and waste produced by a koi, it could hardly enjoy its life there.

    The guys and girls are right on the money. To build a pond, you need knowledge, from this knowledge comes understanding...etc. Be patient and keep on reading, it will save you a lot of hassles in the future when you don't have to encounter problems that people who rush into a pond do.


    cpiefer
    Koi Lover


    Jun 18, 2005, 9:43 PM

    Post #12 of 13 (1413 views)
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    Re: [koiguyoz] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

    Even though I am new on this forum, we built our first pond about 7 years ago and the newest over 4 years ago, and we have 3 ponds (500 gal, 1200 gal and 3500 gal) built in that succession as we kept outgrowing the ponds. I certainly agree with all the great advice your getting from the members here. A couple of things I could add from my own experience:

    Volume, volume, volume. Build the absolute largest pond you possibly can with good depth 3'+ (especially if you wish to attempt to grow show fish as females tend to make better show fish and they claim they require a depth of 8' so they get enough vertical exercise to not develop pot bellies - I personally don't know if this is true, but I have show quality koi and my female shiro utsuri certainly seems to have a pot belly). Remember however, there is a surface area to depth ratio needed for good o2 exchange to occur - i.e. don't dig a well for your koi - 6'x6' x 8'deep could be problematic.

    We have found locally with our watergarden supplier that the pump gpm sizes they recommend needed to be doubled or even tripled to actually achieve the water flow we wanted for waterfalls, filters, etc. Remember every length and turn of pipe reduces flow through friction, undersized pipe can greatly reduce flow and shorten the life of the pump as the pump is always working against pressure, changes in elevation greatly reduce pump output (most pumps have flow charts with them showing expected flow to rise ratio) - so if your pump is at the bottom of a 3' pond and your pumping to the top of a 3' waterfall that's 6' elevation and the pump's output can be greatly reduced. Undersized or clogged intakes also reduce the water available to the pump. And the first time the pump is plugged in is the best it will operate over its lifetime and it will lose efficiency from then on. Also, I think most koi people recommend turning over the entire volume of the pond every few hours.

    I believe the first pump they sold us for our atrium pond (18" deep, 500 gal, 30" waterfall) was only 180 gpm, we took this back for a 240, then again exchanged it a couple more time until we were somewhere around 500 gpm. .

    I hate to think these watergarden places do this intentionally, but I think the majority are really plant places and don't know the first thing about the needs of the fish. Beginners are easy targets and blame themselves when they loose a few fish and then go back and get more fish . . .

    Sorry if this post is too long -- i just hate to see people lead astray and then not get to enjoy their ponds.


    cpiefer
    Koi Lover


    Jun 18, 2005, 10:12 PM

    Post #13 of 13 (1405 views)
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    Re: [cpiefer] new pond contruction [In reply to] Can't Post

    Sorry, I have another comment after reading the e-bay offer. For one, with a perfectly square, straight sided 8'x13'x18" hole (no sloping sides) you can get 1,167 gal volume (they are rounding up to 1200). The liner they give you is only 12' x 17' and when you lose 3' each direction for depth, your left with only 6" around to secure the liner -- just seems a bit skinny to me. With sloping sides you'll end up with more liner around the edges, but lose the all important water volume. Didn't see anything about the life of the liner, warranty, etc. You can buy really good liners (I certainly recommend the best you can afford as a leak would be horrible to deal with) that have a 40 year warranty or longer. I think the liner for our 3500 gal pond (its L shaped so we wasted a whole lot of liner) was about 50'x50' and ran about $1,000 - with 40 year warranty. Also I am not familiar with PVC liners - ours is EDPM rubber by Firestone.

    Again I also wonder about the pump - for $99.99 I imagine its the cheapest sump pump you can find. All pumps are not created equal and some types can be extremely unreliable, expensive to operate, and leak oil into the pond when they fail. Unfortunately, I think this set up is more for plants and a couple goldfish, and probably still a lot of problems in the long run. I'm afraid you would get what you pay for on this one.

     
     
     



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