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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System:
(HELP) New pond already made with problems.

 






 


KimPak
Koi Lover

Apr 23, 2008, 3:24 AM

Post #1 of 11 (1655 views)
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(HELP) New pond already made with problems. Can't Post

Hello everyone. First I have to say I love this forum!
My moms friend DIY'ed a koi pond herself and talked my mom into doing one too. Our pond is about 25 x 25 and 3.5 feet around and 4' deep in the middle. We just dug a huge hole, placed carpet then lining, rocks around the sides and added water and BAM. That was that. We have a small filter (maybe 1.5 by 1') with balls inside connected to a pump. Also we have a hose connected to a pump for the mini waterfall. Next we have a frog with a small UV light inside that spits out water.

We don't have any shade so we put large rocks in the water so the fish could have places to hide etc.

What I'm trying to say is that we didn't even research koi ponds and we rushed into making one so now we have green water. We bought 10 koi yesterday and today found 5 dead...maybe b.c. of the water...maybe because of birds??

What in the heck do we need to do to have a stable koi pond? It's pretty frustrating. Can someone please give me advice on what to do?

Thank you so much.

Kim-





water
Koi Lover

Apr 23, 2008, 11:44 AM

Post #2 of 11 (1630 views)
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Re: [KimPak] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post

Firstly, your filter is far too small. There are a lot of threads on filter design in this forum... look at them. The first chamber is usually mechanical, removing debris, etc.. mechanical by sieving using brushes, etc... and the subsequent chambers are biological... beneficial bacterias are cultivated which will break down the ammonia into nitrite and nitrate. Culturing bacteria takes time... cannot be rushed. So, mean time you will have green water as your pond is new.... - it is we call "new pond syndrome". A phase which you have to go through.

Secondly, don't be too eager to add fishes... For new pond, we use test fishes, but introduce them slowly for the filter to build up its ability along with the addition. If you add too many too quickly, your filter will be killed. It is like adding fertilizer to plants... too much you kill them... a little at a time.

Thirdly, water flow and circulation... water should flow through the filter with the entire pond changes once every hourly or two hourly. The pump size should match that... and balanced with your filter size - so that the water "dwells" in the filter long enough and not too fast. Inlet and outlet should be planned to offer the pond maximum circulation and to avoid "dead" water.

Forthly, Time is needed.. patience... Shading the pond will help, UV light will help... but your filter needs time to mature.

Lastly, don't be disheartened... everyone in this forum went through the agony just like you... you are not alone. And because the process is painful, it makes the end result so much more satisfying.


KimPak
Koi Lover

Apr 23, 2008, 11:43 PM

Post #3 of 11 (1601 views)
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Re: [water] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello. Thank you for your reply. First I have to say that I am soo stressed about my situation.
I looked at the other threads about the chambered filters, but it seems like everyone is making their own. I have no clue on how to make for instance a 3 chambered filter from concrete with pvc pipes and so forth...can I make it out of some sort of plastic boxes? You fill them with...gravel and sponges and...what? Also, do I need to install a bottom drain for this or will a skimmer work fine?

Skimmer -> pipes ->1st, 2nd, 3rd chambers ->pump ->pipes ->waterfall?

Is that how it works? I really thank you for your reply.


ouch
Koi Lover

Apr 24, 2008, 5:47 AM

Post #4 of 11 (1587 views)
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Re: [KimPak] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post

  

In Reply To
Hello. Thank you for your reply. First I have to say that I am soo stressed about my situation.
I looked at the other threads about the chambered filters, but it seems like everyone is making their own. I have no clue on how to make for instance a 3 chambered filter from concrete with pvc pipes and so forth...can I make it out of some sort of plastic boxes? You fill them with...gravel and sponges and...what? Also, do I need to install a bottom drain for this or will a skimmer work fine?

Skimmer -> pipes ->1st, 2nd, 3rd chambers ->pump ->pipes ->waterfall?

Is that how it works? I really thank you for your reply.
__________________________________________________________________________________

Before going into detail, I have a few questions:
1. Did you say that your pond is 25'x25'x3.5'?
2. What is your budget?


(This post was edited by ouch on Apr 24, 2008, 5:48 AM)


KimPak
Koi Lover

Apr 25, 2008, 12:17 AM

Post #5 of 11 (1557 views)
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Re: [ouch] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,
Sorry our pond is approx. 17 x 12 and 3.5. feet deep around the sides and 4' in the middle. I don't know where I got 25 x 25. I think I was adding the depth. Crazy

I was trying to find step by step instructions on how to make a chambered filter or trickle or combined one, but I only found photos.

Thank you for your reply...I'm in serious stress over this.


ouch
Koi Lover

Apr 25, 2008, 11:56 AM

Post #6 of 11 (1530 views)
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Re: [KimPak] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post

So your pond is about 5,700 gallons.

If you want a bottom drain (and I would recommend one), probably your best option now is to buy what they call a retro-fit bottom drain. This allows you to set the bottom drain into the pond, so you don't have to drain the pond, take the liner out, and place a true bottom drain and all the piping, then put everything back.

I would also recommend an external pump that matches your pond gallons (about 5-6,000 gph). This will be a bit costly, but many are energy efficient which pays in the long.
However, the pump you choose depends on your filter design.

Now the filters:
You need to come up with a filter design, and then this will help you decide on your pump, and well as learn about different filter designs.
You have many many options.
Unfortunately any filter you decide on will need to be quite large for your pond.
I would recommend you go online and search around. You need to understand what different filters do, why they do it, and what is best for your situation. This requires work, but it will be hard to communicate to you what you need and why you need it if you don't understand the basics.
Here are some websites:
http://www.koiclay.com/diy/index.htm
http://www.skippysstuff.com/biofiltr.htm
http://www.mikebentley.com/ponds/homemadefilters.htm <<links to a page with a list of DIY sites. Some of the links don't work, but many do.

No matter how you go about doing this, it will require time, effort, and money. This is the price we all pay for a happy healthy pond.


KimPak
Koi Lover

Apr 26, 2008, 2:56 PM

Post #7 of 11 (1480 views)
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Re: [ouch] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you so much for your help. I'm going to research more and when I need more help I will be back.

Thank you again.


KimPak
Koi Lover

May 14, 2008, 2:37 AM

Post #8 of 11 (1252 views)
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Re: [KimPak] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi everyone again!
I found this site online that shows how to make a simple filter. Does this look like something that would work for my pond? I don't quite know where the jenny box will go...can someone figure that out for me? Our pond is in trouble if we don't clean it soon.


Here is the site

http://www.runnerduck.com/pf2.htm

Thank you~!


ouch
Koi Lover

May 15, 2008, 10:29 AM

Post #9 of 11 (1198 views)
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Re: [KimPak] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post

You have the right idea, but I would make some modifications.

Rather than the jenny box, I would have another barrel before the biofilter for mechanical filtration. The jenny box will just end up being a pain to clean, trust me.

Here's a simple setup that would work well:

2 pumps at opposite ends of the pond, each pumping to separate circuits.

Each circuit contains the following:
Pump --> Settlement Chamber --> Coarse Mechanical Filtration --> Fine Mechanical Filtration --> Biofiltration --> Back to Pond




KimPak
Koi Lover

May 20, 2008, 2:48 AM

Post #10 of 11 (1085 views)
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Re: [ouch] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi~ Thank you for the diagram. I have a question...each of the drums has a bottom drain..is that the same as a valve that you can turn off and on to let the dirty water out?

Also, the pump is attached before all the drums right? So it pushes the water through the filter instead of sucking it through if it were on the opposite end of the filter? I cant seem to find a pump strong enough. Do you think this would work?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=25679-335-RSP10&lpage=none

Also what is the purpose of the main bottom drain in the pond? What would be the difference of that and just putting a hose connected tot he filter at the bottom of the pond?

So many questions I know. Thank you all so much for your help.

Kim-


ouch
Koi Lover

May 20, 2008, 6:42 AM

Post #11 of 11 (1075 views)
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Re: [KimPak] (HELP) New pond already made with problems. [In reply to] Can't Post



Here's an updated schematic. In the picture I say you may need another ball valve on the other side of the "Y", but you will need it to adjust the flow correctly.
If you are feeling up to it, you can build a stream/waterfall (see pic below) that the filters and/or the other side of the "Y" not going to the filters flow into.

Whatever you do, you need to circulate and aerate the water somehow.

Use a minimum of 2" pvc for all connections and pipe (the bottom drains for each drum don't necessarily need to be larger than 2"). The bigger the better.




Quote
each of the drums has a bottom drain..is that the same as a valve that you can turn off and on to let the dirty water out?

Yes. See the gate valves in the schematic above.




Quote
Also, the pump is attached before all the drums right? So it pushes the water through the filter instead of sucking it through if it were on the opposite end of the filter? I cant seem to find a pump strong enough. Do you think this would work?

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=25679-335-RSP10&lpage=none

Yes, the pump is before all of the drums, pushing water through. Do not use pool or spa pumps! They usually use oil for lubrication, which will kill your fish, and they are not designed to run 24/7.
If you are going to use a submersible pump, I would recommend the Pondmaster 4,000 HyDrive Waterfall pump. Your pond is about 5,700 gallons if I remember correctly, so 2 of these pumps, each connected to their own filter system above will give you good filtration.

You can shop around on ebay and various pond supply websites for similar pumps. Always look at the wattage, because even though a pump is cheaper, if it uses more energy it will cost you much more in the long run.

External pumps are the most energy efficient, but cost quite a bit initially. If you want to use the retro-bottom drain that I talked about earlier, you will need an external pump pulling water through the retro bottom drain, and then pumping to the filter.



Quote
Also what is the purpose of the main bottom drain in the pond? What would be the difference of that and just putting a hose connected tot he filter at the bottom of the pond?

A bottom drain in the pond allows for maximum filtration of particles (poop, dirt, leaves, algae, etc) because it pulls from the very bottom of the pond.
Also, a real bottom drain eliminates unsightly piping inside the pond.
You can have a submersible pump sitting at the bottom and pumping to the filters, or an external pump with a retro bottom drain pulling from the bottom of the pond, but neither are as efficient as a real bottom drain.

At this point a real bottom drain isn't much of an option, unless you want to take out the pond and start over.


Hope this is helping.


(This post was edited by ouch on May 20, 2008, 6:47 AM)

 
 
 



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