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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System:
Bio filters (again)

 





 


Gwilo
New User

Dec 12, 2007, 4:31 PM

Post #1 of 5 (1582 views)
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Bio filters (again) Can't Post
Hi,

I’m new to this forum and new to Koi as well.

Currently I have a pond and water feature but no fish yet and the reason I haven’t got any fish is because I don’t trust the filtration system that my ‘expert’ has installed.

He has installed rows and rows of what looks like one and a half inch pipes, these pipes have holes and slots in them and are laid on the bottom of the pond. The pipes are then connected to a manifold and this manifold is connected to a pump. On top of the pipes he has laid pebbles, the pebbles are to a depth of about 4 to 6 inches. So, the water passes through the pebbles and is filtered by them!

In theory, I’m guessing that this does sound plausible but so far it hasn’t worked very well. The guy tells me that he has installed this type of system on many – many occasions and it works, he is even willing to take me to where he has installed it and show me. So far I haven’t taken him up on the offer.

My question is, has anyone ever heard of this type of “Bio-filter” and if so, should it work?

/Any help or advice very much appreciated, my Koi are still waiting to come to their new home!


njin9
Koi Lover

Dec 19, 2007, 8:25 AM

Post #2 of 5 (1501 views)
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Re: [Gwilo] Bio filters (again) [In reply to] Can't Post
From what you are describing, this sounds like a DIY undergravel filtering system (UGF). It's very similar to an aquarium system's, just larger.

In an aquarium, all the muck and crud will get sucked underneath out of sight. It is filtered mechanically through in the gravel bed. This is where the bio-filtering will also take place( or under the gravel plate). Essentially all the crud you didn't see is hidden in the gravel or pipes, and still remains in the pond water system.
This system will be anaerobic, which can be tricky to handle. In the cleaning process, the gravel and plate will have to be siphoned. You can actually see how much crud is there by looking at the clarity of the water being vacuumed. It's an easy process because the siphoning funnel and hose are much larger then the 1/4" aquarium gravel. The water will remain cloudy for a while until the fine particles settles in the gravel bed (air bubble system is very slow) and the bacteria colony starts to revive and do their work. Even if you fit on a powerhead, the filtering will be greatest at the up-pipe connector and weaker the farther out you are.

That explains the aquarium setup.

Now the pond set-up will seem similar to the aquarium, except you have no UGF plates, just 1 1/2" pipe network. I assume your system is a DIY and the pipes are drilled by your 'expert'. Are the holes and slots evenly spaced? What I'm trying to get to is water will be sucked more (suction power) the closer it is to the pipe manifold or pump. If the holes are all the same size and evenly spaced apart, the further out (end of pipes) won't be drawing a great deal of volume like that of holes that are closer/shorter distance up the pipe. Therefore you can actually have some dead spots in the bottom of your pond where water might turn stagnant b/c water is not being moved/sucked. This can be bad for fish that like to dig in the muck for food and scraps. Instead of finding 'mud' critters and other biological treats, they get a blast of anaerobic gas bubble in the face. So these holes will have to be larger toward the end of the pipes or more frequent, otherwise smaller near the beginning, and getting progressively bigger. I hope you get the drift.
With the gravel, I don't think you have a gravel bed. It sounds like inches of stones and pebbles. Do you have a way to disturb them? The settlement will continue to collect on the bottom. There's no siphon hose for a pond. There's a pond vacuum though. But I doubt if it's strong enough to agitate stones so that you can vacuum the muck. I don't know how deep your pond is, but you might have to wade in and step on stones and toe this and toe that such that the bed of settlements and stones get agitated and starts clouding the water. The filth will start moving about, and at which point you will have a separate smaller pump connected to a hose to pump out this crud. You have to do this to mechanically remove settlement because you don't want this stuff lingering in your water system. This cleaning procedure can be part of your weekly water routine. 10% out, 10% in give or take water evaporation. P.S. the plants love this muck water from the pond. Otherwise water the grass. It shouldn't be wasted in the sewage system.

It takes 10 minutes in an aquarium. I don't know how long this will take in your pond because you never mentioned sizes. If this is a water garden, then all is good. You hardly have to do a water change. If you have a heavily stocked pond or intending to, you're screwing yourself big time. Hire a local kid to clean your pond instead of having him mow the lawn. If you only intend to have a few koi, then you would still need to do this, just not as frequently. Remember that kois are dirty fish (I'll get egged for that comment). Compare goldfish to tropical fish. Goldfish produce a lot more waste by-products then tropical fish. And koi which will eat more and grow bigger then goldfish, will produce a lot more.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Short-term intense, (obsessive) hard work to long-term laziness.

Do


njin9
Koi Lover

Dec 19, 2007, 9:14 AM

Post #3 of 5 (1495 views)
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Re: [Gwilo] Bio filters (again) [In reply to] Can't Post
Sorry about the long post. It's almost like a lecture.

The UGF has virtually no mechanical filter. It takes about roughly 2 weeks before the bio-filter bacteria starts to appear and do its job. You can make it work/start faster by adding bio-filter enzyme/enhancers. Some people have stated that it doesn't really help.

I recommend goldfish. They're easily available anywhere and they're cheap. Buy 2 dozen goldfish (feeder fish) and release them into the pond. Don't get too attached. They will slowly produce ammonium through respiration and excrements. These by-product are what is needed for the nitrification process to begin. In your current filtering set-up, the bacteria colonies will start growing on the stones and pebbles.

If you want to really speed up the process, you have to over-air(oxygenate) the pond, especially at the pebble level. Put air stone bars into the pebble (connected to an air pump of course). This will encourage bacterial to grow well at these sites. Please do not turn off the air pump. Let it run 24/7. I don't know your pond depth, but at deep depths, there's too much pressure for the air pump diaphram (I assume aquarium air pump b/c it's cheap and easily available) to pump air through the air stones. You might have to weight it down and stick it into the pebble bed. Hopefully the pebbles will make the bubbles break and split, thereby diffusing the air supply. Smaller bubbles help to dissolve oxygen into the water better then large ones.

Once your bio-filter starts to work and clean up the water, and you want to add koi, do so slowly. I mean 1 or two at a time over a one to tow week span. This will ease the water system into adjusting for the higher volume of fish without overloading it. Remove some goldfish. They are cheap and expendable. Don't get too attached.


P.S. IMHO, I think koi hobbyist tend to find the easiest way to do things. (Read my tag.) Why work so hard that you can't take the time to appreciate the beauty of your pond and fish? Your filtration system will be a problem in the future. It's not necessary the pipes, but the bed of pebbles. I understand the pebbles are there as a function and aesthetics, but there are better smarter ways of doing it. That's why serious koi hobbyist have ponds with nothing on the bottom of their ponds except bottom drains (BD).
There are way better filtration units out there, whether this be a DIY or commercially manufactured system. You just need to envision what it is you want in the long run, and how best to achieve it. There's lot of knowledgeable people on this forum. You just have to look for the right post to get the right answer, otherwise post the right question or statement.

BTW, be specific. Give detailed information. ie pond volume. size depth. surface area. pump's capacity (gph). your geographical location, pond's location (shade, full sun, ground level, or 1 -2' above ground. etc

I hope this long post helps too,



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Short-term intense, (obsessive) hard work to long-term laziness.

Do


Gwilo
New User

Dec 19, 2007, 4:59 PM

Post #4 of 5 (1473 views)
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Re: [njin9] Bio filters (again) [In reply to] Can't Post
Blimey, I have read and understood (I think) your first post

I haven't read the second one yet but the first one was great and spot on thanks very much for taking the time to reply to me.

The 'pond' started life as a water feature, a water wall! I'm not sure what the actual term is to describe it but there is something very similar in Luna bar KL.

So the wall is something like 20ft long and 7ft high, the water is pumped up to the top of the wall and then cascades down, we've put those tiles with like slots in them on the wall so it makes a very nice feature and this 'water wall' has it's own separate pump.

The 'pond' is also about 20ft long, 6ft wide and about 3ft deep.

I am fast going off the idea of putting koi in this pond because of the maintenance and am now leaning towards either no fish or gold fish.

I got my 'expert' (actually he is a great guy and to do the actual work he's brilliant, very efficient, very clean and ALWAYS shows-up when he says he's going to) to do the following. Put 5 water outlets just below the surface so that there is definite turbulence in the pond and I added a small fountain, just one of those nozzles that creates like an umbrella effect (it looks quite nice) and even though it meant building another chamber we put the filtration pump right in the middle of the pond. He has made a crude attempt to 'balance' his piping system but this is not based on any scientific theory.

I am also a bit low on fluid mechanics, flow rates and the dynamics of water flow but just by looking at the pond we seem to have a fairly even flow over the stones and they have all become slightly discoloured over this last week.

Ok, off to read your second post now and thanks once again for the reply - s. Tongue


ahtan40
Koi Lover

Feb 22, 2008, 10:35 PM

Post #5 of 5 (1114 views)
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Re: [Gwilo] Bio filters (again) [In reply to] Can't Post
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