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Building new pond

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KevKoi
Member

May 24, 2002, 9:53 PM

Post #51 of 105 (15711 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Go to member's pond section and there's an upload picture function there. U can upload on the thread of your koi pond which I started for you already.

Khoobg
Webmaster

May 24, 2002, 11:14 PM

Post #52 of 105 (15704 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

You can email the file to me and I will post for you

SMW1
Koi Kichi

May 24, 2002, 11:16 PM

Post #53 of 105 (15704 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

You can only attach it in members ponds section.

Click on reply, click on browse (botom left of window). Select the file you want to attach. then click on upload attachment.

SiChang
Koi Lover

May 24, 2002, 11:25 PM

Post #54 of 105 (15700 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks. I have posted it at the member pond.

SiChang
Koi Lover

May 28, 2002, 10:01 PM

Post #55 of 105 (15673 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

All,

After searching for a pond builder for about 2-3 weeks, I am getting more ridiculous quotation from builders. I was almost had a heart attack this afternoon. A freelance contractor quoted me of RM70k for the first design that Kevin has put in at the member pond forum (without the stepping stones). Pond builders have really no standard of quoting the price. First question they will normally asked is where is your house? A bungalow or Semi-D. If you don�t mention the location and type of house, they will not talk to you until they know where you live. Then they will ask you what is your budget�etc. I am getting pricing from RM20k to all the way of RM70k for the similar design. I am very dissapointed with all these so called �expert� pond builders. They are CON-MANS. I am still have not met any honest people out there. Please help.

Simon.

KevKoi
Member

May 28, 2002, 10:23 PM

Post #56 of 105 (15671 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm dissapointed... terribly dissapointed. Frown

Lynne USA
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 7:42 AM

Post #57 of 105 (15659 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi sichang,

Most pond builders here in the U.S. are the same way. They want to charge allot of money and don't know anything about koi ponds or filter systems.

I have a friend who is about to spent $10,000 US dollars to have a pond built. This man is cooking her good and she won't listen to me. I have had ponds for 40 years and learn something new every day.

I sure hope you can find a builder that you can trust and will listen to you. Good luck.

Lynne

patrick123
Koi Kichi

May 29, 2002, 10:06 AM

Post #58 of 105 (15650 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Simon,

You should stop asking for more quotes. The more quote you get, the more confused you are.

Since you already have quote for RM20k, which I think is quite reasonable for the size of pond you are getting, why don't you just go with that and make sure you specify all the "scope of work" and the materials they use. I'm sure you are very familiar with this term since your background is Program Manager from Cisco. :)

Also, have you decided what design you are going for? Stepping stone or bridge? I personally don't see the price go up significantly with the stepping stone.

In this part of the world, everything is expensive if you live in a landed property (especially semi-D or bungalow). Even electric bill is higher than people who stay in HDB. You are just "big fish" to a lot of the opportunists out there who are trying to snatch your money. Hang in there.

Cheers,
Patrick

thtan
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 11:48 AM

Post #59 of 105 (15644 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Simon,

I agree with Patrick that the price is reasonable and need a quick decision . I know which contractor Kevin is referring to. I have no doubt he can deliver. But beware the variation costs if u don't specify the scope and materials. Then there will be unhappiness later. Be prepared for contingencies approx Rgt 10000 will cover those. including terra cotta vase, pergola etc. It would be good too if you check in the forum specifications and materials, esp pump size. Don't forget it is not only the capital cost, the operating cost can be a killer too. We have had this experience.

We look forward to your visit with your wife to meet our koi. Certainly your home minister has to approve the budget and for long term co-existence with your other love. Wink

Forget the contractor with the 70,000 Rgt quote.He will learn that it is no place for sharks (only kois) as long as there is this forum.

Thtan Sly

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

May 29, 2002, 1:17 PM

Post #60 of 105 (15636 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Simon

I agree with the rest. For the size of your pond, RM20K is quite reasonable. Smile

As I have suggested to you earlier, make sure you have all the drawings and specs ready and explained thoroughly to your contractor. The more detailed the better! If something goes wrong (I hope not!), you don't want him to say, you didn't mention this or that to him!

Alternatively, ask him approx. how much of cement, sand, bricks, stones etc. etc. that is required and you can actually go and buy them from the hardware shop. Tell your pond builder you will only pay for the workmanship alone. Get a quote from the hardware shop and add up the workmanship cost and the materials cost, if there is not much of a difference, then you might as well get the contractor to do everything but if there is a significant difference, tell him you buy the materials and he builds the pond. I did it this way and save about RM1500.

Good luck!

Rgds

Johnson

KevKoi
Member

May 29, 2002, 1:58 PM

Post #61 of 105 (15639 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Not many capable contractors I know would let you do what u just said.... buy the concrete and all. The people who do that are probably not very experienced and again, I wouldn't trust a pond to them. Imagine if they screw it up.... u'll spend more trying to rectify the problem.

SiChang
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 2:28 PM

Post #62 of 105 (15636 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Patrick,

I am not so confident with this contractor as he did not able to tell me how to build the filter before I gave him kevin's filter design. I think he is not so familiar with the koi pond building. Making artificial rock mountain pond is his expertise which I do not like personally. His quotation to me is ok but I am not very confident when I discussed with him as he did not sound good.

There is another Indian man who is doing landscaping also claims he is able to build the pond. He is chraging me for RM6k just for the pond materials, rock and piping. Wood, filter materials, pumps, and all other decorations are from my own. After I spoke to Kevin, I also not so confident with his capability. If I can take time off to monitor his work that probably doable. Oh, well. Not really an easy to do this pond building job.

Today, I will talk to my main con. and see what he can come out with. I have no choice but have to continue to search...

SiChang
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 2:50 PM

Post #63 of 105 (15633 views)
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Re: [thtan] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Mr. Tan,

Thank you for your kind offer to visit your house. My sincere thanks to you and Kevin. Kevin has given me a lot of good advise regarding pond building.

You are certainly right, my home minister (wife) is making so much noise earlier regarding this pond. In her mind, safety is number one as I have 2 young kids. Building a pond with 5' deep can be very dangerous. After she knows I am getting a lot of helps from this forum and heard about all the pros and cons of the pond builder. She indeed asked me to engage a more reliable contrator to build it, don't worry so much about $$ which is a good thing. But on the other hand, the $$$ is my hard earned money. I agreed with her, but I still can't find a contractor who is able to do the job. The contractor who is asking for RM20k is proposing to use corals. In this forum, no one is proposing corals for their filer which worry me. I am really confused and very stressful.

patrick123
Koi Kichi

May 29, 2002, 4:46 PM

Post #64 of 105 (15626 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Poor Simon,

I thought Koi keeping is supposed to be a relaxing hobby. Pirate

Don't be surprised there are many "experienced" koi pond builder who will propose coral chips to you. First of all, corals are relatively inexpensive. This way, the contractor's profit is higher. Secondly, corals clear up the water very quickly (if you dump in a lot of it). In this way, the contractor can claim that their job is done and boast to you how clear the water is and collect their money and run quick quick.

Using coral chip is only a short term solution and disease and problem will occur in the long run.

I would suggest since you have the drawing, just get the contractor to do the pond and filter chamber construction for you. Buy your own filter materials. In this way, you don't have to argue with your contractor why you don't want to use coral chips.

Main con is good if they are willing to do the pond for you. In this way, you will not void the warranty of the house and they cannot point fingers to others.

Cheers,
Patrick

DANNY
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 5:00 PM

Post #65 of 105 (15626 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Simon, I feel so sorry knowing about your frustration and hassle. Well, it is true that there are many pond builders out there and some of them are really greedy sharks that are looking for every opportunity to have a bloody bite out of you (or into your pocket!) but I still think there are some good people out there to make some beautiful ponds for people like us. What I am trying to say is: just think about it. Keeping koi is suppose to be a relaxing and peaceful hobby which you can enjoy with your family and make you feel living happier everyday. And yet you have already stress out just by looking for a pond builder. Imagine if you face any problem during the construction of your pond and pond maintenance......so, give yourself some room to relax and think about what you are going to do.....don't rush and don't panic.

Of cause we can't rule out there are people out there trying to get fat by charging us high price to build a simple pond. But some of them might have their reasons to do so, some of them might have unique skills and methods and experiences to build good pond which you and I can't. (We can all describe what we want for a perfect pond but in reality, we can't build it ourselves, right? I know I can't) Some of them must have their special ways which they might not like to share with you unless you have already engaged them to do the work, or they wouldn't have stay long enough to make a living out of pond building, right?

I would like to share with you one story: remember the friend I recommended you to call in KL and to visit his pond? I talked to him but he wouldn't want to recommend his pond builder to me or anyone who would like to build a pond anymore. Why? My friend built his pond about 5 years ago. He engaged this at that time still "green" contractor to build his pond for about RM15-16k for a pond size of 10'x8'x4'. The pond is till nice and my friend is very happy about it till today. Since my friend has his new pond, he started to introduce the contractor to friends and families and to friends' friends. After a while, this contractor started to get famous and start to build bigger ponds for bigger houses after another bigger ponds for bigger houses....you know what happen now? He is so busy now that he will only build a pond for you if you have a bungalow or semi-D lot. And of cause you can image his price of building a pond now....it started from RM10-20k a few years ago to RM 80-100k now (of cause for big pond I meant). Crazy

So, do you think my friend will still introduce more friends to him? of cause not. But this contractor has make enough already Lah.....

Luckily, he is not the only pond builder my friend knows, during his 5 years of koi keeping experience my friend made a lot of friends who are also keeping koi and own koi pond and then get to know other contractors.....

Why don't you give him a call and talk to him? Frankly speaking, I didn't look for more than 3 quotations myself when I started to build my pond. I guess I am just being lucky to get a good contractor who charge me a good price for a reasonable pond before I ran out of patience. I can't imagine spending that kind of energy to compare their ideas, method, prices and more designs and so on........too much for me. As long as the price is "reason", I will go for it (your RM 20k proposal sound reasonable.) If they quote you too low, you can't trust them, if they are too high, you can't afford to engage them anyway, Am I right? so why not have a peace of mind and take the one you trust and you believe that is capable of building you a good pond. Don't stress out yourself, and stay relax. Just remember, koi keeping is a relax activity, don't spend to much time and energy on trying to get the best deal you think you can (probably? but not untill you're burn out) and risk loosing all the joy and fun of watching your beloved koi's. Pond is important but it is never the main theme...right? Koi is.

Good luck and be brave,

Danny

patrick123
Koi Kichi

May 29, 2002, 6:39 PM

Post #66 of 105 (15617 views)
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Re: [DANNY] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Simon,

Just imagine, one question you ask and you received 67 replies from all the "kaki" koi friends on this web. This tells you that we are either too free Laugh

, or we are all nice people who care a lot about your pond.

So don't forget to invite us to your house for pond visit when it is done.

Cheers and good luck,
Patrick

Chingbee
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 9:16 PM

Post #67 of 105 (15612 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

It is really very difficult to look for a real pond builder, I also have a bad experience Pirate

with our pond builder in Boracay. They are a landscaper and knows how to build a pond, but no experience how to make a proper koi pond. Since my hubby let them do all the work - look what happened?!? Mad

Now we have to add sooo many things in order for the water to clear out.

So now here at home, my new pond is under going construction and I (only I!!) personally designed the pond, I did a lot of research, ask a lot of questions Sly

and finally a sketch! I did call our engineer to draw and calculate the materials to be used. Got a good contractor (we've been using him for all our building projects) He is charging me P 70,000.00 pesos (about $1400.00 US dollar) for the labor. I will buy all the materials needed for the project, including the filter materials, pumps, turbo cleaner, TT etc.

Overall design of the surrounding is a good friend of mine who did part of my garden here at home. Cool

TonyG
Koi Lover

May 30, 2002, 8:41 AM

Post #68 of 105 (15600 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Always good to have someone you can rely on
Smile

Tony

SiChang
Koi Lover

May 30, 2002, 10:57 AM

Post #69 of 105 (15590 views)
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Re: [DANNY] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Danny,
Thanks for the good advise. I have called up your friend, Cheah and he will pass me the contractors contact by next week.

All,
Some updates, I met up 2 contractors last evening. One is the building contractor and the other one is a artificial rock pond builder. The aritificial rock pond builder honestly told me he has not done this type of pond before but he is willing to learn and providing me the labour job. He has yet to tell me how much is his labour. Is this a good idea? or the building contractor who has totally no experience at all for pond building?

SiChang
Koi Lover

May 30, 2002, 11:04 AM

Post #70 of 105 (15589 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Patrick,

Koi lovers are very friendly. I called up Danny's friend Cheah, we talked like we know each other for a long time. The feeling is great and everyone here is so helpful as well.

All of you are welcome to check out my pond once its completed. Just hope my pond will turn out nice.

DANNY
Koi Lover

May 30, 2002, 11:39 AM

Post #71 of 105 (15587 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Simon, It is nice to know that you contacted Cheah and I told you he is a nice person and he will sure tell you what he knows honestly.

Personally, when I decided to build my pond, I only talk to the people that have experience building pond, I wouldn't want to risk giving the job to any contractor that only do building work. Sometime, experience is the value we are paying them for. You want to build a pond, why get someone who is good at building a house? right? No matter how cheap it may sound, the risk is too great and it doesn't justify any saving you think you might have. I feel better if you would use the artificial rock pond builder, at least he has experience building a pond, you see. He should be able to build you a good filteration system, but then you have to communicate with him your ideas and fancy designs.

Talk to Chech, he is truly a responsible koi pond owner. Get the telephone numbers and make some calls. You can make up your mind after this round of inquiry, you have been planned and waited for so long after all.

Good luck and keep us posted of your decision.

Cheers,

Danny

SiChang
Koi Lover

May 30, 2002, 8:55 PM

Post #72 of 105 (15559 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Kev, I visited your pond today. It is so beautiful. The water is very clear and of course those kois are very nice. I am so jealous that you have such a big pond. I wish I am as lucky as you Smile

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Jun 3, 2002, 7:39 PM

Post #73 of 105 (15529 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Kevin,

It is not fair, how come we don't get to visit your pond?

May be we should organize a visit to your house like the one to Dr. Tan's except that it will be without your presence (since you are in Aust). Laugh

Cheers,
Patrick

KevKoi
Member

Jun 3, 2002, 9:59 PM

Post #74 of 105 (15522 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, my dad just suggested if you all can wait till the end of the year (around late Dec), when both of us are back we could have a 'koi pond walkabout' within Damansara Jaya neighbourhood. I know of at least 3 koi ponds in that area within walking distance.... including Colins pond. (so if you're reading this Colin, is your place available?)

What ya say? Another trip down to PJ?

SiChang
Koi Lover

Jun 4, 2002, 10:11 AM

Post #75 of 105 (15509 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to]	Can't Post

This is indeed a very good idea. I do hope my koi pond turn out nice and beautiful. Pls. count me in, I would like to join the 'koi pond walkaround D'sara' in Dec. I can ask my maid to prepare lunch at my place. My maid is a good cook. Smile

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