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Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system

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patrick123
Koi Kichi

Mar 4, 2003, 12:42 PM

Post #51 of 73 (13907 views)
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Re: [cby] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Boonyong,

Thanks for the help again. In any case, I have contacted Evolution Aqua on the answer that I got. Guess what, they told me that the one I got is the model 400, not the model 410 which is what I supposed to receive. So I'm still waiting for a final confirmation from them before I go back to the dealer who sold me the unit. You mentioned that some of the older unit have weaker pump. Could this be one of them?

Any advise from you what I should do next?

Regards,
Patrick

cby
Koi Lover

Mar 5, 2003, 7:13 PM

Post #52 of 73 (13886 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Patrick,

The model you have is one of those with a weaker backflush pump. I suggest you see what the dealer is willing to do for you and I am investigating if there is an upgrade kit for you.

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Mar 5, 2003, 7:29 PM

Post #53 of 73 (13884 views)
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Boonyong,

Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,
Patrick

cby
Koi Lover

Apr 3, 2003, 1:18 AM

Post #54 of 73 (13821 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Pat,

did you get the caustic soda by the way? it really made such a big difference that now my water is super clear.

More interestingly however, I had the opportunity to test a water management system that self regulates the PH and dissolved oxygen, based on the continuous monitoring of various parameters including ORP or REDOX.

During the time that I had the system, opr readings varied from high 100s at the warmest time (around 3-4pm) to 270s at dawn. The Ph also varied between 7.5-8 over a 24 hour cycle. Oxygen was pretty constant around 12.5 - 13.5 as I run 3 hiblows and also 3 venturis. I believe the heavy airation helps significantly in the high ORP readings.

Shame I don't have the system since i cleaned the mesh and thinking about buying a orp meter to see what a properly functioning Answer does to the water quality.

Just wanted to share the above with you so you know the potential of The Answer.

Can't remember if I informed you of the lack of an upgrade kit for the 400 to 410 presently.

If you need some caustic, let me know and I'll get some to you as have staff going to spore.

Regards,

boonyong

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Apr 3, 2003, 10:26 AM

Post #55 of 73 (13804 views)
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Boonyong,

Thanks for the posting. Yes, I managed to get a small quantity of caustic soda from Max Koi, and a friend promise to sell me some powder type of sodium hydroxide. So will wait for that and if I still need more, I will contact you directly. Thanks so much and you have been a great help.

As to the effect of applying the caustic soda, you are right that it works wonderfully. The stuff is really lethal and when I sprayed it on both sides of the screen, I could hear the hissing sound. After 15 mins, the water blockage was completely gone. The answer was running smoothly for 1.5 weeks and then the blockage started again....mainly due to the heavy infestation of string algae in my pond. I throw in 3 sucker fish into the pond and now the algae is getting under control.

I got this feeling that the biofilm on the screen is growing very fast. I think I have to use the caustic soda every 2 weeks. Unfortunately, due to SARS (corona virus), I'm stuck in Thailand and cannot go back to Singapore. I have to ask my maid to physically clean the screen with a sponge 2 times a day to prevent blockage. I heard that now she has to clean 3 times a day.

That's the downside of having all the high tech equipment and you are not home.

As for the ORP reading, I'm very interested in it. However, the cost of the system is very high. Don't think is justifiable in my case since my fish are not the expensive type.

Over the last 2 days, I was told that the pond water temperature was around 31-32 degrees. I'm also thinking of adding a chiller. Do you think it is silly to add a chiller for outdoor pond of 10 ton? I don't know what will be the electricity bill like. In any case, building a pergola is out of the question since my garden is already very congested.

Cheers,
Patrick

micky
Koi Lover

Apr 4, 2003, 8:56 AM

Post #56 of 73 (13775 views)
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Hi Patrick
Regards, Micky

micky
Koi Lover

Apr 4, 2003, 9:38 AM

Post #57 of 73 (13772 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Patrick
When I read your threads about having problems with the Answer and how easily it clogs up, I wonder if such a system is worth the money??. I know someone who installed the Answer and is about to junk it, "cutting losses" he says.

Although my koi keeping experiences is limited to pump-fed filtration, which I agree has its drawbacks, the problem of clogging at the pump, the pipes and filter has never occurred. Of course it may still clog if one neglect to maintain it properly! I just use plenty of J-mats and bags of corals to balance the pH, no other fancy stuff.

Perhaps there is an advantage for the debris to be broken up by the pump before it enter the filters or screens. In this way the fine debris has a lesser chance to clog up the medias/screen. The fine debris settles down to the bottom and those on the J-mats get pulled along when the chambers are flushed. About once a month, I remove the J-mats and give it a quick spray but never do this for all chambers in one go.

Many people are sceptical about pump-fed filters because they are afraid the fine particles will travel its way back to the pond. However, if you install a four or more chamber system, the fine particles in the last chamber is actually very minimal. For the last chamber, I just give it a quick flush once every 6 months.

Also, may I know why your pond has such high amount of string algae?. Is the pond exposed to the sun whole day? Is it possible for you to solve your filter problem by first taking a hold on the algae? Just "kay poh" and a little curious lah! Sorry to be so long-winded. Smile

Regards, Micky

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Apr 4, 2003, 10:44 PM

Post #58 of 73 (13741 views)
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Re: [micky] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Micky,

Sorry for the late reply. To tell you the truth, it was not a "wow" experience for me at the first place. However, the idea is great....just don't expect it to be something that you can install and forget about. You need to maintain it at least once every 2 weeks (and I'm talking about serious maintenance). Also, it is not so forgiving like Jap mat. If you have mech chamber with jap mat, it is virtually impossible to clog the mat no matter how infrequent you wash the mat. In the case of the Answer, it is not very forgiving.....since it blocks all solid that is larger than 100 micron. If you don't maintain or keep an eye on it, you may run into situation where your pump runs dry (gravity fed), or your mech overflow (pump fed).

As to the point that many people are sceptical about pump fed system, they have their point. It is not as simple as you think...that the solid are being broken up into fine particle and can be flush out later. The action of pumping the solid has a mincing effect and will increase the chance of fine particle desolving into the water and increase the DOC (dissolved organic carbon). However, if you have a good foam fractionator, you can reduce this possibility. The idea of gravity fed system is actually to remove the solid waste before they get into the filter. The more you can do this, the better is your water quality.

If you already have a pump fed system, you just have to live with it....it is not the end of the world. If you can install a foam fractionator to remove the DOC, it will be much better.

You are right about my algae problem. I believe it is partly due to the 100% exposure of sunlight, and also mineral buildup from the sludge in the bio chamber. Since my bio chambers do not have a very effective bottom drain (not steep enough for the debris to be flushed out by normal flushing), I need to physically remove the bio mech and do a complete wash down once every 3-6 months. It is high time to do it now. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in Bangkok not able to go back to Singapore because of the SARS virus.

Sorry for being so long-winded too. Thanks for your advise and concern about my system. Let's keep in touch and we can exchange more ideas.

Thanks,
Patrick

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 26, 2003, 2:25 PM

Post #59 of 73 (13687 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

HI Patrick

Sorry to hear you are stuck away from your home (it's better to be safe)

If I may ask some questions to try and understand and help you.

The settlement chamber that contains your answer how often do you back flush it? If you do back flush it does this remove all the string algae from this chamber? How many Ltrs is this chamber?

The caustic soda will remove a thin oils residue that Koi excrete. If you feel around the inside of your pond does the residue on your hands feel oily? I have the same problem with a sand filter. The oil clumps the sand together then algae grows (its another story). Check with EA but I am sure you could use other products to remove this film if it is difficult to obtain (be very careful with it also)

Did you have any luck with the dealer you bought the unit from? I hope so.

Has your K1 media matured yet? I am assuming so.

Your UV is running 24/7 but how long has it been since you changed your globe. I live in Australia and most companies recommend replacing every 6 - 12 months. The light emitted from the tube might still be blue but that does not mean it still working. I fell for this with my first pond and bought a cheap UV but when I had the problems you seem to be having this suggestion was made to me and it worked. Is your UV big enough for your pond?? Perhaps you could verify these details and i will check for you. How my Ltrs per hour passes through your UV?

The best product I have found to kill Algee is from Waterlife Amalagisn A (excuse the spelling). It is very effective and good value for money. Do not use it if you have plants in your pond though.

I am going to convert to an EA system shortly as I believe there product is good. I think you have been let down by your dealer though.

Please reply and I will try and assist further.

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

(This post was edited by Aussie Koi on Apr 26, 2003, 2:29 PM)

cwnchong
Member

Apr 28, 2003, 2:02 PM

Post #60 of 73 (13663 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Aussie Koi,

I am interested to know how you overcome the string algae problem in your unit(The Answer). I have heard quite a fair bit of this problem. Although I do not own one, but I have been doing the study & research on different kind of vertex.

If I am not mistaken, the Answer was initially designed as a vortex filter. Later its inlet pot was relocated to point slightly upward to stop the vortex generation due to some customer feedback. This modification did not overcome the problem, the latest mod I believe is the model Patrick has has a shroud added to prevent the inlet from discharging directly onto the gauze so that the waste including the string algae will tip over the shroud and settle, this design does work for a certain flow rate but most user do not know how to overcome it. There may be another modification after this which I am not aware yet.

The other area that can be improved is the gauze material woven too thickly. The gauze is quite similar to the renowned K&N auto filter which is more difficult to jet through and wash. This cud be the reason that the soft silky algae cling to the mesh so firmly. You may be right about using certain chemical to wash.

I hope you can share your experience regarding this topic.

Tks/Rgds

(This post was edited by cwnchong on Apr 28, 2003, 2:14 PM)

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 28, 2003, 2:56 PM

Post #61 of 73 (13659 views)
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Hi Chwchong

In My opinion. The whole idea of he answer is to stop large particles (100 microns for the 410 so lets deal with that as it is relavent) from passing into your filters. These particles get trapped in the settlement chamber normally a vortex type chamber and settle in the bottom of the chamber where they can be back washed out of your system all together, great concept (as I am sure everyone will agree). From what I can gather with Patricks unit he might have the one with a small pump that was insuficent in cleaning this screen. (By the way without this screen the whole this is a waste of time) Since this version another pump has been used and these problems do not seem to be occouring from what I have read and heard.

String algae will be a problem with any filter system allbeit the answer, jap mat or even pressurised systems such as swimming pool type sand filters or bubble bead types.

The fix needed has nothing to do with the answer or any other type of filter. The solution is to fix your string algae problem. This needs to be done to stop the string algae or blanket weed taking over your pond and making your water not good. String algee problems can be dealt with via chemical means ( I use amalagisin A from waterlife sorry about the spelling) and / or the use of a UV unit that is large enough for you pond.

The problem which is common is a oily residue that coats the answer screen that the internal answer pump cannot remove. This residue can be removed with caustic soda (20min bath). In most cases this problem only occours once or twice after the initial set up (WORST CASE). I have personally spoken with ponders (KOi Keepers) from the USA and UK who love the clarity of the water after the initial setup. All of them experience great water clarity after only a short period of time. The gunk the answer will filter from your water initially need to be removed from the system and trust me when I say there will be heaps of it.

I just hope we can try and fix Patrick123's problem.

I am not a professional just a guy with a pond and some fish...

Hope this helps and nice chatting with you

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

cwnchong
Member

Apr 28, 2003, 5:20 PM

Post #62 of 73 (13648 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Aussie Koi,

Thank you for your prompt reply. I fully agreed with you that we should tackle the algae management part first.

I always feel that The Answer is the best designed mechanical filter so far. I am still having the feeling that it is, compared with the others currently in the market.

The only drawback with the answer is my earlier expectation of it. When I first came across this filter I thought that this gadget in self-cleaning & 100% maintenance free which is my own prejudice & it's my mistake for over rating it & nobody else to blame but myself.

For a beginner like me, sharing with someone who has the experience is a priviledge, I am keen to know how you manage to overcome algae with The Answer. Maybe it is already a thing of a past for you. I believe Patrick would not be too disappointed if he can overcome this situation with his unit.

According to our local supplier, The Answer should be able to cope with the algae if the correct pump is fitted, what is your commend.

Cheers

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 28, 2003, 5:47 PM

Post #63 of 73 (13647 views)
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Re: [cwnchong] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Evening Cwnchong

Have you contacted EA? Talk to these people they are very prompt and helpfull. I would like to know how Patrick123 also got on with them.

http://www.evolutionaqua.com/

If you are not aware that is there web address. There is an Email link to contact them.

How much string Algae do you have? What is your nitrAte reading? How much direct sunlight does you pond get (I know that there is not meant to be a corellation between sunlight and algae but I have never seen string algae inside my tank at home !!!). Please let me know and I will try and help you. Do you have an UV and/or Trickle Tower also? What type of filter do you have(Please also send picture for my benefit). How often do you flush or back wash your system? How much water do you change every week / month? Do you have mains water filters? DO, GH, PH, KH and buffer used will also help.

I use waterlife Algasin A to rid my pond of Algae (I get a little despite my oversized UV filter). Along with cleaning the pond of all debris and checking my Jap mat for any string algae. I have a vacum cleaner that works via a garden hose to remove any mulm or crust (sort of a venturi system) & clean the left over around my bottom drain. I also do a decent back wash / flush.

http://www.waterlife.co.uk/

You can buy it from Aquarium and fish shops. Perhaps it could work for you also. If you do use it make sure you have heaps of Air going into the pond and your filters and NO PLANTS !

It kills everything that even looks like Algae but will not harm your filter bacteria. I use a presurised sand filter that clogs with algae but after using this product I have less trouble for 3-4 months.

I hope this helps you and i agree with you as i previously stated I think the Answer is fantastic.

Get back to me with your pond parameters and lets see what we can do to help you.

Regards

Aussie Koi

Wink

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

(This post was edited by Aussie Koi on Apr 28, 2003, 5:54 PM)

dttk
Senior Member

Apr 28, 2003, 11:19 PM

Post #64 of 73 (13633 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, it's me again Laugh

. Eventhough we started chatting just a few days ago, it seemed like we have known each other for sometime! Cool

It must be the magic of koi-keeping... Angelic

. I have one question for you. It seems that UV rays only kills phytoplanktons that causes green water and not string algae. What do you think abt this? Any comment will be appreciated. Smile

Cheers!
"Duku" friendly

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Apr 29, 2003, 1:36 AM

Post #65 of 73 (13630 views)
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Dr Tan,

You are absolutely right. At least that's what I have experience. Even with my UV light on 24/7, the string algae kept coming.

Cheers,
Patrick

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Apr 29, 2003, 1:50 AM

Post #66 of 73 (13630 views)
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Aussie Koi,

Sorry for the late reply. I was stuck doing something else.

Anyway, I guess my problem is now a little under controlled. You are right that we need to solve the string algae problem first. Otherwise, having the answer will be a nightmare.

The problem with the answer is that even though it is a very innovative product, it is not a very forgiving equipment. If you have jap mat instead of the answer, you will not risk running the pump dry like the case of the answer. When it is clogged, it is dead clog...nothing goes through.

The way I got rid of the string algae is to introduce sucker fish into the pond. This way, the string algae will be eaten even before they have a chance to grow. I don't quite like the idea of using chemical as I believe this will not solve the rootcause and is adding stress to the koi.

As for the screen, you still need to use caustic soda to spray wash it at least once a month. That's how long the screen can last before it clogs. If you are the lazy type who tend to put off your maintenance work...you are in deep trouble. Once the answer clogs, no water will pass through and your last chamber will run dry if you are using gravity fed system or your answer chamber will overflow or flooded if you are using pump fed system.

The added problem of my unit is not that the pump is not powerful, but this unit does not allow the screen to be detached from the unit...so guess what, you need to remove the whole answer from the chamber when you want to apply caustic soda. Imagine, the answer is around 20kg when wet. An extra bonus for the koi hobbyist who are also body builder. Not in my case anyway.

Cheers,
Patrick

KevKoi
Member

Apr 29, 2003, 7:48 AM

Post #67 of 73 (13623 views)
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Patrick, only problem is that the 'sucker fish' we talk about (plecostomus) cost a fortune here in Australia! They're illegal fish and they cost something like $30-$50 for a 3inch long fish! Plus, these fish being tropical would not survive in a temperate climate outdoors. Frown

(Aussie, the pleco in Malaysia and Singapore cost something like $0.50 in those 2 countries so.... unlike in this great Southern land.)

There's no cold water fish I know (other than large koi) that will eat this string algae in te temperate climate like Australia. Unsure

kev

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 29, 2003, 11:18 PM

Post #68 of 73 (13602 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Okay to all the greenies!

How to control blanket week (string algae) with out using Alagasin A from waterlife (why not use it I will never know but here goes - it will not effect ph or destroy beneficial bacteria). String algae seems to be more prevelant when PH is over 7.5 and there is lots of nitrATE in a pond system. Some Gurus also suggest it is prevelant when there are excess phosphates also (tend to agree with them)

The funny thing about string algae is it consumes nitrATEs and phosphates and the fish love the stuff. Koi keepers hate it because it binds to everything including pump impellers and filters.

The key to correction is to remove every bit possible from you pond and filters. then using a floculant (or again for the greenies some form of Koi clay) to seperate / sink out any water suspended particles. Flush everything possible, dont be tight here people 30% or what ever is needed to remove everything.

Use Barley straw either in a matt or liquid form (personally I would go for the liquid - if its okay to hurt the poor Barley!) The jury is still out on wheather the barley straw bales / liquid fixes or just prevents blanked weed. If Barley is out of the question there are electrical units (but I have a problem with putting 240v into a pond and I have seen one covered in weed whilst it was meant to be working)

Blanket weed is a big problem in UK ponds and the poms have made a number of great products to fix this problem. Check infilitration / BKKS for further reading.

I would suggest that everyone who has this porblem checks the last time they replaced their UV tube (bulb). The UV tube for the want of a better term breaks down from the moment you turn them on. In Asian / Australian conditions you really should thinnk about replacing them every 12 months. The blue hume seen from inspection ports in your UV dulls and evidently the tube can still glow blue but the UV is not working.

When you have blanket weed it is tricky to naturally get rid off, its natures way to tell you your water chemistry is crook (Australian for sick).

When killing algae you must Air rate as it consumes oxygen in mass quantities when it is breaking down.

I know all about illegal fish KevKoi I live in QLD Koi are illegal here.

Hope this appeases all the greenies amongst us JUST USE THE BLESSED WATERLIFE product (or similar).

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 29, 2003, 11:27 PM

Post #69 of 73 (13601 views)
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Re: [dttk] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Oh wise one (formly known as DTTK AKA 'Dr Tan')

I feel UV will kill string algae but it first must pass though the UV it must (ever heard of Yoda? or Dude where is my car?). The nature of the stuff is it binds to everything and grows and grows. Correct me if you think I am wrong here.

I think the key is nitrATE / phosphate control associated with removing every bit of muck from your filter / pond using a floculant or clay. String algae feeds on nitrATE / Phosphates, control excess food and usually you control the beast.

What do you think Dr Tan? What to you think about Barley Straw bales / liquid?

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

(This post was edited by Aussie Koi on Apr 29, 2003, 11:28 PM)

dttk
Senior Member

Apr 30, 2003, 11:11 AM

Post #70 of 73 (13587 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Aussie Koi, thanks for all these wonderful info Sly

. I have yet to find any article that confirms the effectiveness of UV on string algae. Most of them however swears by it's effectiveness in combating green water which we already know. However, if it's based on your personal experience, I'd respect that. As mentioned by Patrick, the Pleco does remove string algae but there are a few disadvantages. Yes, I've heard of Barley straw bales and it's extract and it's effectiveness but no personal experience. It's not easily available in this region too. Perhaps you would like to read this article by Doc Johnson from Koivet,

http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_results.php?article_id=179&category=11&search_term=String%20algae

Salt does prevent string algae to a certain extent. I must agree with you that high nitrates, phosphates, and debris accumulation are the main causes of string algae bloom. Can we call you AK in future? It sounds better since we're a familiar bunch now Laugh

.
"Duku" friendly

(This post was edited by dttk on Apr 30, 2003, 11:14 AM)

Aussie Koi
Koi Lover

Apr 30, 2003, 11:42 AM

Post #71 of 73 (13581 views)
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Re: [dttk] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hail oh wise one!

Dr Tan my Email is brojac@bigpond.com. Please put your name in the subject line and I will send you my personl Email address (I get heaps on brojac and most is spam.I delete most of it (9/10) without even looking at it. It would be a pleasure to hear and learn from you.

I am suprised about the barley. I know people in the UK that swear by it. I think they use the liquid version if that makes any difference. Personally I again use Alagasin A with clay as a floculant and have little trouble.

From what I understand the problem is with string algae once it gets hold will not pass through the UV and hence will not kill it, however the tinny released particles will go thorugh a UV and die.

Looking forward to your Email

Regards

Aussie Koi

Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!

dttk
Senior Member

Apr 30, 2003, 12:28 PM

Post #72 of 73 (13576 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

AK, one email on the way Sly

. I do encounter string algae in the waterway where there are vegetation. The pond itself is free from it. They also get stuck on the waterfall. I brush them off about once a fortnight and the koi are just waiting beneath the falls for it. Perhaps it's a good dietary supplement for the koi as well. Besides that, there are some tiny whitish snails too that appear harmless. Sly

"Duku" friendly

(This post was edited by dttk on Apr 30, 2003, 12:30 PM)

backslang
Koi Lover

Jul 17, 2006, 9:04 PM

Post #73 of 73 (6453 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] Effective mechanical Pond Filter - ''The Answer'' system [In reply to]	Can't Post

sorry to bump this old thread but i have some questions about an answer unit.
i have recently aquired a nexus 200 with an answer 325 installed.
it was previously used gravity fed but the design of my pond forces me to have a pump fed system.
i have been told that the only change i need to make to the filter is to install a standpipe.
I rang EA to ask them and they said that they would not recommend using my answer unit pump fed as i will struggle with water clarity.
is this true? if so what can i do about it?
many thanks
james

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