Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System: Filter mat arrangement

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Filter mat arrangement

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chong
Koi Lover

Sep 1, 2002, 8:24 PM

Post #1 of 26 (33010 views)
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Filter mat arrangement	Can't Post

Greetings everybody Smile

Which filter mat layout is better ?

1) 3' W x 3'L or 2 W x 4.5L Any difference ?

2) Which spacing
i) Spacing of about 1" between each layer of matting or
ii) No spacing .

Info & photo from forums seem using (i) which I have no doubt in its result. But is there anything wrong with (ii) other than it hurts pocket two times compare to (i).?

Regards

HWONG
Koi Addict

Sep 1, 2002, 11:47 PM

Post #2 of 26 (32993 views)
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Re: [chong] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chong,

Most of us would place our mats along the water flow; ie. If your water flows from pt.A to pt. B, place your mat lengthwise along this 2 pts. That means you do not place the mat across the waterflow. How big a piece? The lenght would be A to B( make it a tight fit. The Width (height) depends on the depth of your filter chamber. Normally 2 to 3 ft is ok. ( dont forget to leave ~ 1 foot from the bottom empty.to allow any sloids to settle to the bottom for eventual discharge. This means you should make a rack/frame of pvc pipes for the mats to sit on) The biofilter should have free flowing water so Spacing is encouraged. you can cut strips of about 2ins X 2ft of matt and place one on each end ,another in the center for each and every piece of matt. Method A allows you to put air stones in between for aeration.

Version B , I suppose if it doesnt restrict water flow should be ok. There are many types of Jap matts. Some are very coarse whole others are finer. The matts cannot stinge since its the condo for the bacteria Wink

Maybe you can try it and let us know if it is ok.

chong
Koi Lover

Sep 2, 2002, 9:35 AM

Post #3 of 26 (32987 views)
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Re: [HWONG] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Hwong ,

Thanks for your advices.

You mentioned mats to be placed along water flow , any particular reason for this method ? My earlier assumption was , if the placment is across water flow , it may help to trap excessive or minute floating particles missed out by mechanical filter [brushes]. Of course the main function of mat is as colonization base for bacteria.

I plan to cut the mats [1m x 2m] to 4 pcs of 0.5m x 1m .
As the depth may be around 1m [3'~4'] , is it OK to leave a gap of 0.5m space from the bottom ?

Smile

jsoon
Koi Lover

Sep 2, 2002, 3:07 PM

Post #4 of 26 (32970 views)
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Re: [chong] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

May I add to this discussion ?

Correct me if I am wrong....

I come to understand that in the first chamber, mat should be place against the water flow as to provide as much trapping as possible for the bigger dirt.

Of course, cleaning the mats in the first chamber is more of a chore and is difficult...that is why people recommend brushes.

In the second chamber, mats are place according to the water flow because mostly cleaner water pass through the mat and the good bugs are flourishing breaking down the nitrogen cycle.

However, my query is - in the second chamber, should we place one or two mat against the water flow and the rest of the mat with the water flow. This can also act as another deterent to trap more dirts ?

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Sep 2, 2002, 3:17 PM

Post #5 of 26 (32967 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Good point jsoon!

I know what Hwong is getting at and his system has lots and lots of heavy brushes stacked closely together then carlnets are placed next. In this case, there is no need for Jap mats to be placed against the flow of water. Smile

He has many chambers to do the job of growing good bugs on Jap mats.

In some cases, we have a limited number of filter chambers thus we have in the 1st chamber brushes to act as a mechanical filter then we use Jap mats in the 2nd and 3rd chambers. In the 2nd chamber, Jap mats are placed against the flow of water to trap smaller debris and dirt. In here, it has a dual-purpose. The last part of the mechanical filter and the beginning of a bio-filter. The 3rd chamber's Jap mats are stacked vertically thus allowing the good bugs to thrive here. In here, some owners also add bags of bio-rings/bio-balls etc. No particular hard and fast rule to this.

Hope this clears the air over your point! Smile

Johnson

dttk
Senior Member

Sep 3, 2002, 12:33 PM

Post #6 of 26 (32949 views)
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Re: [chong] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chong

, hope you don't mind me answering some questions you posed to Hwong. As you would have known by now, placing the mats along the flow of water will allow water to flow more freely and hence more oxygen to the bacteria. It also lessens the chance of the mats getting clogged up faster by minute debris. As you know, mats are supposed to stay clean and not to be disturbed by having to clean too often. That's why they are expensive (like condo for bacteria as Hwong puts it!). Better let the mechanical filtration be done by brushes or nets. These mats are usually tightly packed and so not easy to remove for cleaning. Brushes and nets are however the opposite. If you have spare mats and wish to use it for mechanical filtration, no problem of course. Your choice of 0.5m x 1m mats with 0.5m space below is fine. Wink

Always friendly :)

chong
Koi Lover

Sep 3, 2002, 10:40 PM

Post #7 of 26 (32929 views)
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Re: [HWONG] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi HWONG & dttk ,

Thanks for the info . One doubt , you mentioned of PVC pipe rack or frame to seat the mats . How it looks like ? Photo or picture is most welcome .

Regards
Smile

dttk
Senior Member

Sep 4, 2002, 12:02 PM

Post #8 of 26 (32915 views)
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Re: [chong] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chong

, sorry I don't have a picture of the PVC rack. However it's not difficult to visualise. Imagine the rectangular floor of the chamber, say 3ft wide x 6ft long. Stack or build one row of bricks along each length, say with a height of 6-12in, width 4-6in and of course 6ft long. These 2 rows act as a raised edge to support the PVC pipes. Cut a long 1in PVC pipe into 2ft.11in pieces. Place these PVC pipes perpendicular to the 2 raised edges. To prevent sliding of the pipes, you could cut off a right-angled block of pipe from each end and fit the cut ends to the raised edges. Have a spacing between each pipe. This forms your PVC rack. Hope you're able to picture the above Smile

.
Always friendly :)

chong
Koi Lover

Sep 4, 2002, 12:16 PM

Post #9 of 26 (32910 views)
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Re: [dttk] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi dttk ,

I roughly got what you meant . Thanks.

One more question . For bio chanber , water Flow inlet bottom & outlet top or vice versa . Which water flow is adviseable ? Blush

dttk
Senior Member

Sep 4, 2002, 12:34 PM

Post #10 of 26 (32906 views)
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Re: [chong] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chong, the answer depends on the type of filtration system you have. If the bio-chamber is the 2nd last chamber, and the pump chamber is the last, it really doesn't matter where the outlet and inlet is, or whether water is flowing up or down. Smile

Always friendly :)

chong
Koi Lover

Sep 12, 2002, 11:18 PM

Post #11 of 26 (32866 views)
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Re: [dttk] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Dr Tan ,

Mats arrangement all clear now .

I have another doubt . For brushes arrangement , which is better ?
1) 2.5' x 4' in a single chamber or
2) 2.5' x 2' x2 chambers .

Regards

Smile

dttk
Senior Member

Sep 13, 2002, 10:13 AM

Post #12 of 26 (32857 views)
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Re: [chong] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Chong, I'll assume you're using those long heavy brushes. A brush chamber size of 2.5' x 4' is really a luxury Sly

. Mine is only 3' in length. Seriously, there's no need to have 2 chambers of brushes. Just one chamber of 4' length would do Smile

. Easier to manage and only need one drain. Sly

Always friendly :)

chong
Koi Lover

Sep 13, 2002, 10:31 AM

Post #13 of 26 (32853 views)
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Re: [dttk] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Dr Tan

OK . But most probably , I won't fill the whole 2.5'x4' with brush , Pirate

, I cannot tahan with the brush price lah ! Maybe I will make it 60~70% capacity , remaining will standby for future .

Regards
Smile

KevKoi
Member

Sep 14, 2002, 5:55 AM

Post #14 of 26 (32829 views)
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Re: [chong] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

My settlement is 2.5ft x nearly 8ft! There are about 50brushes in there and if you hunt around u can get pretty good prices (~RM8.50 was the lowest price I found). 50brushes cost you something like 1 koi (OK, a little more if you buy small kois) but will keep many many koi happy. Wink

One time investment...

chong
Koi Lover

Sep 16, 2002, 11:19 AM

Post #15 of 26 (32807 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Oops ,

I encountered a set back with the filter side . Found that my car parks pillar footing that block the filter . Have to reconfigure the lay out again . Will update you all later. Frown

leej
Koi Lover

May 24, 2003, 12:55 AM

Post #16 of 26 (32377 views)
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Re: [HWONG] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dear Mr. Hwong,

I am new in the Koi forum and I do not know how to contact you so I just post a reply note from somebody else. I hope you do not mind.

I plan to set up a (60" length x 24" height x 24" width) filter pond for my 400 gallons koi ponds. I plan to use BRUSHES and JAPANES MATS.

Can you advise me as to 1) How many brushes must I use? 2) How many layers of brushes must I install? 3) How many layers of Japanese Mats should I put into the pond?

Is it possible for you to send me an illustration one how they should be arranged?

Thank you!

joeylee

CyberET
Koi Lover

Jul 31, 2003, 6:51 AM

Post #17 of 26 (31958 views)
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Filter arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

i've a 800 gallon pond filtered by a fibre glass filter, 6ft length x 1.5ft width x 3ft height with 4 chambers, each 1.5ft x 1.5ft x 3ft depth.. in the current arrangement, water enters from the top via a rainpipe, onto blue jap matt, then green jap matt, in the first chamber.. then in the 2nd chamber, water from the bottom would go through corals.. overflowing to the 3rd chamber on the top, through sea shells, and then going from below to the 4th chamber which is 3/4 full pack with bioballs, and on the top a bag of shells to keep the balls submerged.. the current problem i have is that, the 1st chamber keeps getting choked after 3 days (max) and the water simply overflows to the 2nd chamber, by passing the mechinical filtering by the 1st chamber of matts.. no matter how i arrange, green, then blue, or blue then green.. it gets erm.. not entirely correct to say choked, but water flow reduced in such a way that water overflows to the 2nd chamber, causing the remainding 3 chambers to turn dirty.. i happen to come across this posting and wonder if anyone can suggest any better arrangement to maximize bio filtration, and yet maintaince kept to the minimum.. i have to spend 30mins every 3 days to clean the top few layers of blue matting so that the water doesn't overflow to the other chambers. would rearranging the matts so that the water flow issn't against it help in reducing maintaince? water clarity is crystal.. the pond gets 6hrs of direct sunlight a day, currently there are 7 40cm kois, and 11 10-20cm kois.. aerration supplied by a waterfall, and additional air pump into the filter chambers and pond.. erm.. pond is about 4years old now.. any other information required? read about the brushes, but no idea how it works, do i get one giant brush and stuff it in the first chamber, or many small brushes in one chamber? when cleaning, if u remove the brushes out to wash, will some of the dirt drop back into the filter? is it effective? roughly whats the cost? thanks for going through my post and offering advices in advance.

Thanks again,

Elson

leej
Koi Lover

Jul 31, 2003, 9:44 AM

Post #18 of 26 (31954 views)
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Re: [CyberET] Filter arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi there,

Your main problem is getting rid of the soilid waste from the pond water. Yes, you are right. You should be using brushes. The main purpose of the brushes is to TRAP the dirt. The main purpose of the JAP MATT is to grow good bacteria.

It is difficult to explain in words how the brushes can be arranged. But if you can send me your email address, I can send you a simple diagram on how to arrange your brushes.

As to the cost, the China Made POND BRUSHES in the Philippines cost about 150 PESOS or US $3 each. If you install 2 rows of ten brushes per row, it would cost you about $60.

My email address is <leej@pacific.net.ph>. or <LEEJ@PACIFIC.NET.PH> all in SMALL LETTERS. Of course without the "< >" sign

leej

leej
Koi Lover

Jul 31, 2003, 9:49 AM

Post #19 of 26 (31951 views)
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Re: [CyberET] Filter arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

jtlee
Koi Lover

May 18, 2007, 8:02 AM

Post #20 of 26 (16386 views)
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Re: [dttk] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

HI Dr. DTTK,

This is a 2002 post and I hope you still visit it Wink

I have arranged my filter mat across the water flow for 3 years and I notice that it they trap lots of dirt in spite of the fact that the water had passed through brushes in the first chamber.

Now I want to re-arrange my mats along the water flow and I visited your beautiful Site showing how the mats were laid-out.

My question now is:

Should I use something to attach the 2" spacers between the mats to prevent them from falling off? or will the coarse surface of the mats make them stick together?

Thanks for your advice.

jtlee
Happy Koi: Happy You!
jtlee

dttk
Senior Member

May 18, 2007, 9:46 AM

Post #21 of 26 (16371 views)
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Re: [jtlee] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

jtlee, you're right. The mats will stick together. You could even pour water onto it without displacing the structure. Smile

Always friendly :)

jtlee
Koi Lover

May 18, 2007, 10:57 AM

Post #22 of 26 (16362 views)
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Re: [dttk] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Dr. DTTK,

Thank you very much for your comments. I am glad I have a KOI teacher with great experience to teach me <:)(((<

lee
Happy Koi: Happy You!
jtlee

WSC888
Koi Lover

May 18, 2007, 11:21 AM

Post #23 of 26 (16358 views)
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Re: [jtlee] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Now I want to re-arrange my mats along the water flow and I visited your beautiful Site showing how the mats were laid-out.

Where can I view the Site? TQ.

thiamhwa
Member / Moderator

May 18, 2007, 11:39 AM

Post #24 of 26 (16355 views)
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Re: [WSC888] Filter mat arrangement [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi WSC888,

I think you may view it here : http://www.angelfire.com/home/drttk

If not, click on DTTK's profile and then under ' Homepage'

jtlee
Koi Lover

May 22, 2007, 9:25 AM

Post #25 of 26 (16231 views)
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TRICKLE BOX [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi DR.DTTK & anybody who may want to share his idea,

I can not install a tall TRICKLE TOWER on my filter system because: I use a pond bottom SUMP to push the water to an above the ground filter chamber which in return flows back to the pond by gravity.

In view of this limitation, I am thinking of using a shallow but long TRICKLE BOX (please see attachment). Do you think it will work? Do you have any warnings of advice regarding using this?

Any feedback would greatly be appreciated.

jtlee
Happy Koi: Happy You!
jtlee

Attachments:

LEETRICKLE DR.jpg (37.6 KB)

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