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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System:
Green to Clear...

 






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eddie244
Koi Lover

May 8, 2007, 10:03 PM

Post #1 of 31 (4711 views)
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Green to Clear... Can't Post

any questions??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSfl8EWqRvc
=====================================
For Pics here--> http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u122/highresvid/

For videos here--> www.youtube.com/highresvid
=====================================


koi@kit
Senior Member


May 9, 2007, 8:42 AM

Post #2 of 31 (4699 views)
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Re: [eddie244] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

hi eddie

very impresive.. will the water turn green if u wash the filter? coz if u cant wash the filter which is full of waste theres no point to have clear water. after a while if koi keep in this clear but full of waste water sure kana hikkui..Wink

Smile


ayranjim
Koi Lover

May 9, 2007, 9:48 PM

Post #3 of 31 (4667 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello, first of all a filter is to filter, so it will retain some stuff! That is its job! But also there is the biological aspect which is what makes the water CLEAR, and with biological filtration, there is no reason to clean the filter, you will kill the bacteria or you have to clean it with pond water! The video shows how BIOLOGICAL FILTRATION WORKS! The mechanical filters remove things like leaves and such!


koi@kit
Senior Member


May 10, 2007, 11:01 AM

Post #4 of 31 (4646 views)
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Re: [ayranjim] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

hello.. mechanical filter works in the video, biological work as well.. from ur experience and experty in this filter system how do u think u will do if the mechanical filter clog in time since it is all in one system ie the mechanical below the bio filter.
i know flushing is the solution but can u gurantee 100% clean at the mechanical filter? as u shud know since u r such an expert, too much waste can contribute to skin disease like hikkui rite?


(This post was edited by koi@kit on May 10, 2007, 11:14 AM)


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 10, 2007, 11:57 AM

Post #5 of 31 (4642 views)
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Re: [eddie244] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

May I know what inside the drum and how does it works... Unsure

Best regards
Abangk


ayranjim
Koi Lover

May 10, 2007, 7:39 PM

Post #6 of 31 (4622 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello, well the best way to have this is to have the mechanical filter in another position, simple logic shows the problem, HOW to get to the mechanical, without distirbing the bio!!!!The only way I know is to clean the filters with the same pond water! This is something that should be considered when doing a filter. Also if you dont have many things like leaves and such, then the mechanical filter will not have much in it! And water quality comes mostly from the biological filtration, so you should not have problems with disease.
Jim


eddie244
Koi Lover

May 11, 2007, 10:13 PM

Post #7 of 31 (4597 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

hello..
well, the filter is design to be maintenance-less. what's inside the filter is actually rectangle kitchen scrubbing pads, the ones you use to scrub your dishes with. it's not even pack, i just throw it all inside.. its very loosely pack, and i dont think clogging will be an issue.. well, maintenance-less, it only require to be drain, around 5-10sec every "forgetful" days. which means it only have to be drain once you remember.. :) you dont even have to be drain it until empty. actually, im quite surprise for my friend's pond to
clear up so quickly as my pond took 4weeks to clear. a few things as i assume speed up the clearing prosess. im not going to
explain that in detail here..

im no expert in this filter but im quite and very please of how it works. i have 2 of this filters running aready. (and im yet to find
another green pond to be clear up, anyone wants me to experiment his/her green pond?). the 1st filter is use in my pond (running
since sept06) all readings is 0-0-0. which is good and the fishes are so happy..
about my friend's pond it got all the readings in
dangerous level when its green. 1st day is ammonia, nitrite & nitrate is off the chart. im even surprise that the fishes still survive
to this day..
2nd day i was working, i only get to measure on the 3th day, where i can see a major improvement already, i can see
the 2 giant kaloi and the water is clear brown with a few suspended things in the water BUT no green color anymore. i took a
reading ammonia-5mg/l, nitrite-20mg/l and nitrate-40mg/l.
then i came again on the 5th day, well.. it clear up. my friend was so
happy, even the whole family was happy to see the pond become alive again. i took a reading and all readings was
0-0-0. its sad to see the equipments that was left, as his dad previous attempt to clear the pond fail. i see a eheim canister filter,
pond boxes, UV light. well, i still recommend and insist them to use the existing filter as a supplement to the DIY filter.
there is no
harm of overfiltering..

let me explain this as simple as i can so new ppl into ponding understand how water cycle works. here goes, we all know fish eat.
when they eat, they produce waste. part of this waste is ammonia. ammonia is deadly to fishes. in nature, ammonia is either
diluted to a safe level by rain. another thing is some bacteria eats up this ammonia and its turns it into nitrite, (lets call this
ammonia eating bacteria, ammo). nitrite is also deadly to fish. so now, ammonia is no.1 deadly, nitrite is 2nd deadly. no, need to
know how much ammonia/nitrite level is deadly, just keep in mind these 2 will stress out and kill your fish. so this nitrite which
is deadly is also eaten up by another bacteria and convert this to a lesser harmful waste call nitrate. (lets call this nitrite eating
bacteria, nitri.) keep this in mind, ammo & nitri are aerobic bacteria, which means it needs oxygen to eats/convert the wastes.
hope, the new guys reading this gain new knowledge... lets continue, the next waste which is nitrate. nitrate is harmful, i dont say
deadly, it only get deadly with a more higher level, where you can smell your water. Nitrate is food for plants. let me ask you a
question, what is the most common problem in you get in an outside fish pond? you run the filter, then place fishes in, feed them.
after a while boom, GREEN WATER. what is green water? in simple words, algae. and what is algae?? algae is plants. see where
im getting now.. you got nitrate, and you get algae. how does algae get in the pond. in simple words, algae is the most important
living thing in the world. in fact without algae, nothing will live. let me explain, algae is at the bottom of the food chain. and it
reproduce very very fast. imagine a food pyramid. you got a large base, and a little tip. its just how food chain works. algae needs
to reproduce very fast as to compense the amount being eaten by the upper class of the food chain. hope you are not lost here...
algae just reproduce to keep it self in existence. everyone knows of evolution, maybe this algae evolve after millions of years and
it get to this level where it only needs water + sunlight and you got algae. lets not get to the many many kinds of algae, ok.
so now, you got nitrate, which is used up by the algae to give of nitrogen. nitrogen is harmless & no need to worry as you wont
get into high toxic level in your pond. even in the air right now, there is nitrogen. now, i want you to imagine.. say you have a
pond, fill it with water. dont fill in fish or put a filter in it. let it be until algae grows & grows. (if you worry about mosquitos, well
place in a bunch of males only/females only guppies.. :p ). now after a few months or years.. you see this very green pond, you
see the side, the top covered by algae. then now, i want you to slowly move the algae thats covering the top of the pond.. what do
you see? i bet you'll see crystal clear water.. :) so in order to have clear water you need algae. so lets say, we get all this algae into
one area where it can live & give my crystal clear water.. you get it now?? that's what's actually happening.. let the algae get stuck
in the filter media, but without clogging it and you have yourself a clear pond. what's happening in the filter is all balance.
ammonia, nitrite & nitrate is all working harmony with all the ammo, nitri & importantly algae.. there wont be cloging issue as the
waste is broken down. and you do your forgetful days drain.. (my filter running since sept06, no taking out of the scrubbing pads
until now, no clogging). i might add, in the filter there is good and bad bacteria. we want as much as the good bacteria. good
bacteria are aerobic bacteria & and bad ones are anaerobic bacteria. aerobic bacteria needs oxygen to survive/convert the waste.
once oxygen is less, the bad bacteria will dominate the filter, and that is no good. so in order to get more good bacteria, you give
them oxygen or air.. if you notice, the filter is bubbling. you dont need to madly bubble the filter as just a little is enough. im yet
to try and connect an airpump to assist the good bacteria. (that's gonna be my third experiment) also its good to dose in some
bacteria in bottle (available in fish store) as naturally, living things dies off. so does bacteria. with the bacteria in bottle, it will top
up the dead bacteria, and fresh bacteria to start its cycle. i dont recommend any brands.. as long as it got ammo & nitri bacteria in
it, its good enough (read the lable). actually im using laguna detox, laguna pond clear & tetra sludge buster, reason i use this,
because its cheap. :)
hope.. that clears things up.. happy ponding..
for more reading, try this.. http://www.skippysstuff.com/index.html
=====================================
For Pics here--> http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u122/highresvid/

For videos here--> www.youtube.com/highresvid
=====================================


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 12, 2007, 12:31 AM

Post #8 of 31 (4583 views)
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Re: [eddie244] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

That is very detail loud and clear eddie, great and thanks a lot..
However, now I got confused as some have to make such a complecated filtration system with expensive Jap mat, bio balls, brushes, corals etc while yours sound so simple and it is simple. Just a drum of rectangle kitchen scrubbing pads will do the job!!.

The objective is as per your clear explaination summary below:
o Fish eat - produce waste - is ammonia - eat by bacteria - turns it into nitrite, (ammo).
o Nitrite - eaten up by another bacteria - convert to lesser harmful waste call nitrate. (nitri)
o ammo & nitri are aerobic bacteria - needs oxygen to eats/convert the wastes.
o Nitrate is less harmful (became deadly if higher level) - its a food for plants.
o GREEN WATER - algae - is a microscopic plants.
o Nitrate is used up by the algae to give of nitrogen (harmless).
o In order to have clear water - need algae where it can live & give crystal clear water.
o Let the algae get stuck in the filter media, but without clogging it for a clear pond.
o A balance filter provides - ammonia, nitrite & nitrate - all working harmony with the ammo, nitri & importantly algae..
o Produce as much good bacteria - aerobic bacteria needs oxygen to survive/convert the waste.
o Connect airpump to assist the good bacteria.

I have yet to build my filter and may I say that if I dump those rectangle kitchen scrubbing pads in my pond filteration chamber perhaps just a single compartment of let say 5' x 3' x 2' deep with sufficient oxigen supply via air pump, will it works. I just need a bit of creativity on how to obtain the above and maintain PH reading within 7.5-8.5.

Best regards
Abangk


eddie244
Koi Lover

May 12, 2007, 3:48 PM

Post #9 of 31 (4555 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

that statment, summarises it.. well, i dont to full rely on this filter, its good to have additional filtration. im gna use some BH filteration, im using that just to get the IR it claims to have..

anyway,
well how does the water flow on your rectangle filteration chamber? i found it best coming from down and up, submerged. if from top to bottom it will clog just like normal filters, as down & up the water will have to escape to the top.. (just like what's recommended) And you as many rule of pond you must have a fast turn-over. 3 times or more is recommended. my pond is around 1200ltrs. and my pump is 8000 ltrs/hr thats about 6 turn-over. my friend got a 4500 ltrs pond and his pond is 18,000 ltrs/hr, thats about 4 times turn-over.

my pond pH is flat at pH 7. i dont use digital pH meter, i just use pH strips & it always falls on the pH 7. i bet you'll get the same results as my. where are you from actually??
=====================================
For Pics here--> http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u122/highresvid/

For videos here--> www.youtube.com/highresvid
=====================================


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 13, 2007, 12:47 PM

Post #10 of 31 (4533 views)
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Re: [eddie244] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Eddie,

Im from Dragon Heights, Shah Alam.. I mean Bukit Naga next to Bukit Kemuning or Bukit Rimau. Still Kampung environment or Country Homes he.. he..

My filtration has yet to build and Im thinkin to make a plug and play partitions.. macam pc pulak.. intend to use thick waterproof materials like thick glass or plastic sheet and cut it with slotable piece, so the water flow hole can be down-up or up-down or even resize the compartment as its adjustable like office partition.

My pond is about 8,000lit and I bought a 13,500l/h pump and is about 2 cycles/hr, need to buy one more for at lease 4 cycles/hr. Other than the ractangle filtration box, I have another 3' x 3' x 2' deep flower pot cum waterfall box which I can fill it up with bio-rings with down-up water flow for additional filtration. If its still not enough then I can add a TT then.

Oh ya.. when you mentioned the rectangle kitchen scrubbing pads, is it the green thin piece one that sold in pack of 5-6 pieces?...

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on May 13, 2007, 1:30 PM)


eddie244
Koi Lover

May 16, 2007, 10:01 PM

Post #11 of 31 (4463 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

humm, i dont go for up and down filtration. that's the old way of filtration. cleaning is a pain. and the amount of media use is so much. im on work till 23may, so my replies will be a bit late.

1st, what do you intent to put in the pond? you want to grow big big kois with green water or you want to keep koi for viewing pleasure?

yup, but get the thick ones...

copy and paste my links below.. you'll get the idea.

have you made your pond yet? advice is to draw them, then the filter placement.. etc..

can i know your pond dimension and the plug and play filtration you talking about? top view and side view,
=====================================
For Pics here--> http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u122/highresvid/

For videos here--> www.youtube.com/highresvid
=====================================


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 17, 2007, 9:09 AM

Post #12 of 31 (4448 views)
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Re: [eddie244] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Eddie,

I have posted the progress of my pond construction in "Shallow Pond" threat in this forum. Unfortunately I was a bit too late to follow the proper layout and filtration technique as my first intention was just to have a pond and waterfall in front of my balcony with any soft water creatures in it. Therefore the pond was constructed for only 2' deep and was heavily concreted on the floor based with brc.

However I was accidentally came into this forum when searching for pond and fall in love with koi after browsing the member's pond and went thru some of the interesting stories in this forum, that's how my story begun. Cool

So the answer is, want to keep koi for viewing pleasure...

The plug & play filtration partitions is still in planing process and yet to be built as Im still compiling ideas and information. I may have 3 filtration area as the place is limited:
1. Main filter 5' x 2.5' x 2' is located at the front end of my pond.
2. Additional Bioball down-up filter in my waterfall box cum flower pot.
3. Intend to build another single layer horizontal TT between the waterfall box and the hut (If filtration 1 & 2 are insufficient).

The status of the pond as at now is on tiling works, its a bit slow as I also building a hut next to it. Im doing it on my own management with 3 Indon workers.

Best regards
Abangk


drcheang
Koi Lover


May 17, 2007, 5:48 PM

Post #13 of 31 (4427 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all,
What Eddie means by skippy filter is the filter below. Follow the link and u will find how to DIY a skippy Filter.
http://www.skippysstuff.com/biofiltr.htm

It is a very efficient filter too. 70 Gal filter enuf for 1000 Gal. Compare to conventional filter where u need 30%. This also save u space and u can build a waterfall from the water return n a veg filter.. all in one.
Cheers
Cheang


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 18, 2007, 4:16 PM

Post #14 of 31 (4378 views)
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Re: [drcheang] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

I found this scrub piece from market @ 2.70/pc. Size 8cm x 12cm x 2.5cm thick.
o If I were to compare with Jap mat 100cm x 200cm is around RM150.00
o If I cut into 8cm x 12cm I will get 208 pieces x RM2.70 = RM561.60
Therefore may I say that I will buy the Jap mat and cut it accordingly for cheaper and better material.



Appreciate your comments...

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on May 18, 2007, 4:28 PM)
Attachments: Scrub.jpg (61.1 KB)


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 24, 2007, 8:48 AM

Post #15 of 31 (4293 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Further to the above, what if I cut the Jap mat in cube form 1" x 1" x 1" to make "Biocube" which may compareable to bioball.. will it functional as good as bioball?.. Cool



What is your comment..

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on May 24, 2007, 9:07 AM)
Attachments: Biocube.jpg (10.8 KB)


Roger89
Koi Lover


May 24, 2007, 6:41 PM

Post #16 of 31 (4274 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

hi Abang,

That's funny that you virtually cut the sponge.. hehe.

Actually, I don't know much about the surface area if I compare between the jap mat and bioball. But bioball will work better in a TT system because when the water hits the bioball it will shread and continue to do so thus oxygenating the water better.

As for the cut up jap matt, I don't see any benefit by doing it if you are using in in a conventional filter or a TT.

It depends on application. Hope that helps. Smile


eddie244
Koi Lover

May 25, 2007, 7:49 PM

Post #17 of 31 (4251 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

i see where you are going. rm$2.70 is expensive. i got the one from giant.. rm$0.80/5 pieces. and you dont need it to be square cube. i never tried cutting the scrubbing pads, its just fantastic as it is.. if you think japan mats are more economical, well go for it... but once you see the simplicity of the skippy you wont go for other filter in the market.

well, as the title says... green to clear. my friends pond using the skippy filter with my experience of course. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate is 0-0-0. ph is stable at 7. that a healthy condition water pond i would say. fyi, my friend filter using the blue tall plastic drum, it can hold about 250 litres water. to fill the drum cost me rm$88. thats cheap.. think about it pond size.. 4500 litres. filter size is 1/18. :)

one thing in mind is to keep the filter low maintenance as possible. you dont want a chore, cleaning filters week after week. when ever a filter is block, you cleaning effiency drop. once it drop, ammonia starts climbing. from that leads to another, then another.. etc etc

hope these words of inspiration helps.. Laugh
=====================================
For Pics here--> http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u122/highresvid/

For videos here--> www.youtube.com/highresvid
=====================================


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 28, 2007, 10:14 AM

Post #18 of 31 (4194 views)
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Re: [eddie244] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Eddie.. that is great...

This is what Malaysian says "Do it China man style" make it simple and works. Pls forgive me if this statement is not appropriate he.. he... Smile

Which Giant?.. will look at Shah Alam giant..
Why should I spend more if skippy can do the job? I would rather spend it for some good koi then...

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on May 28, 2007, 10:16 AM)


eddie244
Koi Lover

May 28, 2007, 10:04 PM

Post #19 of 31 (4173 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

well, that statement works for me... hehee..

i brought it from Giant at Miri. im from brunei actually...

"Why should I spend more if skippy can do the job? I would rather spend it for some good koi then... " <-- that's a good spirit..

anymore question, feel free to ask... :)
=====================================
For Pics here--> http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u122/highresvid/

For videos here--> www.youtube.com/highresvid
=====================================


drcheang
Koi Lover


May 29, 2007, 1:17 AM

Post #20 of 31 (4167 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Abang,
I saw Tesco was selling for rm 0.50 in a bundle onli. Any Tesco gotlah.
Cheang


(This post was edited by drcheang on May 29, 2007, 1:54 AM)


eddie244
Koi Lover

May 29, 2007, 1:57 AM

Post #21 of 31 (4164 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

here the scrubbing pads i got.. you see how the thickness is. and imagine buying 3 full plastic bags of these.. oh, and sorry i didnt buy this at giant. i brought this at servey. (dont remember the spelling..Shocked)

=====================================
For Pics here--> http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u122/highresvid/

For videos here--> www.youtube.com/highresvid
=====================================


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 29, 2007, 10:28 AM

Post #22 of 31 (4159 views)
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Re: [drcheang] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I got a pair of expensive taste eyes lah... Iv been to Tesco but have not seen that 0.50 scrub.. need to see you lah Dr to check my eyes.. he.. he.. will go again Crazy perhaps I was focusing for the one with 1" thickness.

Best regards
Abangk


drcheang
Koi Lover


May 29, 2007, 12:05 PM

Post #23 of 31 (4151 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Abang,
I saw it in tesco Kajang. Look at the scrub with Tesco label. Any other brand is about RM 1.10. If not ,istaken is Tesco value.
Cheang


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 30, 2007, 3:00 PM

Post #24 of 31 (4092 views)
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Re: [drcheang] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ha.. ha.. Finally I managed to get the green scrub 14cm x 9cm x 0.5cm thick which is 5 pcs per pack. I traced the factory happened to be near my office and buy direct for 4 cartons of 250 pack each and don't ask me how much.Cool ok shhhh... don't tell anyone he..he... its only RM140.00... and for 1 pack you calculate lah... how many % supermarket markup hah...

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on May 30, 2007, 3:02 PM)


Abangk
Koi Lover


May 31, 2007, 9:03 AM

Post #25 of 31 (4054 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Green to Clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

Pirate My apology... it was actually 250 pcs per carton and not 250 packs.. so its 0.70 per pack just about the market price..

Sorry...

Best regards
Abangk

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