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Help with new tanks....

 





 


bcktang
Koi Lover

Nov 20, 2001, 1:21 PM

Post #1 of 15 (1659 views)
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hi there, i need help again
i'm going to purchase 2 500 gallon tanks (black tangki-size 6'x6'x4')side is slanting inwards, so joining them up is quite impossible

i m going to buy 2/3 rubbish bins to DIY the filter, but i have several problems,

1.how do i get the dirt from both the tanks to the filter at the same moment ?

2.how should the filter be built ? (materials, piping, etc)

3.how do i connect a pipe to a round surface of the rubbish bins?

4.how many rubbish bins do i need in order to have a good filter ?

i would like to use only 1 water pump to save cost, and i dont have the money to build a concrete pond. so any help with those questions ?

ive seen DIY filters of fellow koi lovers on the net, but still not too sure on the selfmade filters, btw how does bacteria grow ? do they need the brown lumps that r visible in the filters? what if the lumps are under several kgs of gravel, will the bacteria still grow ? i m doing this is to try to minimize the cost,
thanks for your help


dttk
Senior Member

Nov 21, 2001, 1:07 AM

Post #2 of 15 (1658 views)
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Hi, recently someone at the forum mentioned that a 8ft x 4ft x 3ft fibreglass tank costs around RM750 only. Please do a search. This may be a better investment. Saves all the headaches! Smile


bcktang
Koi Lover

Nov 21, 2001, 10:24 AM

Post #3 of 15 (1658 views)
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thanks for the recommendation, but the tank i m getting is less than rm750, n it's deeper !
it's the filter that i ahve a problem with

thanks again

(This post was edited by bcktang on Aug 11, 2002, 2:00 PM)


bcktang
Koi Lover

Nov 21, 2001, 10:31 AM

Post #4 of 15 (1658 views)
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thanks for the recommendation, but the tank i m getting is less than rm750, n it's deeper !
it's the filter that i ahve a problem with

thanks again


Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Nov 22, 2001, 1:17 AM

Post #5 of 15 (1658 views)
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Dear BCK

Firstly you would need to invest in some fancy pipework to join up the two tanks since you intend to buy only one pump (Remember the pump needs enough horses to push 1000 gallons through the filter twice every hour). Secondly you probably need more than few rubbish bins to act as your filtering box. Your filter box need to be at least 30% of the volume of your water (2 X 500 gallons) which works out to 300 gallons of garbage bins to be effective. Mum will probably have a fit! And so will your regular garbage collector when he comes a-calling. Hee hee [biggrin]

To see the design of a good filter box, press the "home" button of this website and on the home page you will see a diagram and description of wet and dry filter system and what stuff you need to put in there.

Not sure if you can get another tank of about 300 gallons to act as your filter box. If not, then maybe I suggest just get one 500 gallon tank and a 150 gallon filter box to start off with and you're on your way to many happy days watching beauty in motion.

Cheers and happy koi-ing

Best regards
Smile

Josh






taikor
Koi Lover

Nov 22, 2001, 4:31 AM

Post #6 of 15 (1658 views)
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hi dttk,

mind if i ask u a couple of questions regarding the fibreglass tank? I am getting a new tank soon with the standard filter.

1. How do u place the pump in the last chamber with the 2 outlets from the filter box? i.e. without pumping water directly from the tank as i read somewhere it is better to have the water flow into the first chamber.

2. Are the 3 chambers in the filter box adequate for filteration?

3. Have u manage to place a bottom drain in the tank with the piping and drilling of holes in the fibreglass tank? Read somewhere that a 'bottom drain' can be designed in a way even without an actual bottom sump area. Those with ponds build with liner and do not want to cut out the bottom drain.

4. Any chance of building a skimmer with the fibreglass tank?

Thanks in advance.



taikor
Koi Lover

Nov 22, 2001, 7:15 AM

Post #7 of 15 (1658 views)
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hi bcktang

The tanki u r talking about - is the bottom flat or do they have those 'columns' at the bottom which will make it difficult to design any bottom drains!!

At one time i was comtemplating on buying the tankis and creating the piping to rubbish bins as filter chambers. I thought u can design in such a way as in the typical pond 3 chambers aka 3 rubbish bins. The typical flow is through pipes (2" or larger)having a top to bottom flow connecting the 3 bins. This layout is typical of the one I have seen in www.koicyrmu.co.uk where in one of those filters, they connect each chambers through horizontal pipes.

I m not sure if i m describing it correctly but visit the site. It does have a good construction page and u can use your imaginations to figure how to DIY your rubbish bins.

Cheers

the site is www.koicymru.co.uk solli!!!

(This post was edited by taikor on Sep 11, 2002, 2:00 PM)


dttk
Senior Member

Nov 22, 2001, 10:18 AM

Post #8 of 15 (1658 views)
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Hi "taikor", welcome to the forum.
1)Q:How do u place the pump in the last chamber with the 2 outlets from the filter box? i.e. without pumping water directly from the tank as i read somewhere it is better to have the water flow into the first chamber
Answer:If you have a submersible filter, then it is possible to draw in water into the 1st chamber by having the pump in the last chamber. The water level in the filter should be equal to that in the tank. If the filter sits on the FG tank, then I'm afraid this cannot be done. You will have to push in water from the pump in the tank.
2)Q:Are the 3 chambers in the filter box adequate for filteration?
Answer:Yes, if this is all you can afford. 1st chamber-brushes/nets, 2nd chamber-mattings, 3rd chamber-shells/pump.
3)Q:Have u manage to place a bottom drain in the tank with the piping and drilling of holes in the fibreglass tank? Read somewhere that a 'bottom drain' can be designed in a way even without an actual bottom sump area. Those with ponds build with liner and do not want to cut out the bottom drain.
Answer:I have never attempted to fix a bottom drain to my FG tank. But I have seen some at UCP Aquafarm in TTDI. They fix a drain at the centre of the floor of the FG tank. The tank bottom should be supported by some solid structure I suppose. Fixing a drain to FG is easier than liner bcos the latter can tear more easily. Liners are flexible. That's why one could fold it into a sump and place a bottom drain above it without having to cut it. The liner which is expose would have to be pulled together and joined in order to close up any opening into the sump, and that's where the weak point is.
4)Q:Any chance of building a skimmer with the fibreglass tank?
Answer:Sure you can contruct a surface skimmer. Just cut out a hole at one side of the tank abt 3-6in below water surface. Fix a short PVC pipe abt 1-1.5in diameter so that it is partly outside and inside the tank. Seal the inside and outside wall with a rings. Fix a elbow-joint to the inside part of the pipe. The opening should face upwards just 1-2mm below the water surface. You may leave it as it is OR fix a small-to-big connector to the elbow so that the bigger opening faces upwards. This way, you'll have a more efficient surface skimmer. Hope the above helps. Smile


taikor
Koi Lover

Nov 22, 2001, 12:19 PM

Post #9 of 15 (1658 views)
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Thanks dttk for the prompt reply. Appreciate it much.

As for the filter, yea it one of them that sits on top. Gonna try to lay the box inside the tank at near water level supported either by concrete slaps or bricks or mebe some form of glued support at the tank so that i can have the pump at the last chamber. Wat do u reckon? Any other suggestions?

your suggestion on the skimmer is good. will follow your suggestion. Is drilling holes and putting in the rings inside and outside easy?
Afraid that the drilling may somehow damage the fibreglass tank. Any possibility?

As for the bottom drain, i think i gonna skip it for the timebeing until i get a better idea on how to create one. Smile Wat u think if i follow the skimmer idea putting the inside pipe downward into the centre, build a dome like concrete structure at the bottom end of the pipe and have a control valve on the outside. Turn it on and i will have the water drain out along with the bottom dirt. Will it work?

Hope to hear form u soon. Thanks.

Many ideas but not sure it can work!! hehe




bcktang
Koi Lover

Nov 22, 2001, 12:43 PM

Post #10 of 15 (1658 views)
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hi joshua
isn't the filter surface suppose to be at least 30% of the pond surface ? n not 30% of the volume of water ??????

another question is why do u recommend me a fiberglass tank, n what r ur opinion on tangki ?

as for the filter,
if i do use 3 rubbish bins, can i use rocks as the filter medium ? i saw some DIY filter, where there is a section of water under some rocks where the water will 1st go to bfore overflowing at the top to the next chamber, the dirt will accumulate under the rocks n it can be drained out at anytime.

so i use only rocks as the medium?
will the backteria still grow ?

i have 1 idea which is
water fills up the 1st chamber of filter through the bottom drain, filling to the top where a pipe will divert the water to the bottome of the 2nd chamber.

in second chamber,the water diverted to the bottom will flow upwards through a few kgs of rocks, n then flows to the 3rd chamber which is also diverted to the bottom of that chamber

same thing happens in the 3rd chamber,same as the 2nd.

both 3 chambers will have a drainage pipe, where when i wan to clean the filter, i just flush them all out

workable idea ?????


(This post was edited by bcktang on Oct 11, 2002, 2:00 PM)


dttk
Senior Member

Nov 23, 2001, 8:45 AM

Post #11 of 15 (1658 views)
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Hi "taikor", if you have not moved the FG tank to your house yet, I suggest you allow the piping work to be done by the shop that sold you the tank. If you have not done it before, it's going to be quite messy. Do a search on this as it was discussed some time ago. Placing the filter into the tank will take up alot of space. Your koi will have less place to swim. If you're not worried abt that, then I think it might work. However the inlet to filter will still be at a higher level than floor. So you could fix an elbow joint and have opening face downwards close to floor. I haven't tried the bottom drain idea before. You may not need a bottom drain if the tank is not too big because the filter inlet should do a good job. Smile


taikor
Koi Lover

Nov 23, 2001, 11:34 PM

Post #12 of 15 (1658 views)
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Thanks dttk for yr advise. I look into it.



taikor
Koi Lover

Nov 23, 2001, 11:41 PM

Post #13 of 15 (1658 views)
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Quote
Originally posted by taikor:
Thanks dttk for yr advise. I look into it.

PS. Did i mention before that u got a real nice looking pond! Anyway seen yr page and i do believe when u said u can sit around and admire yr fishes. U GOT A REAL NICE LOOKING POND. Cheers.


dttk
Senior Member

Nov 24, 2001, 12:11 AM

Post #14 of 15 (1658 views)
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Thanks for the complement. This is my 2nd pond and it's well planned. I have to thank the builder(Zen) and forum members(Khoo, Mark and Hans) for their advice. Smile


Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Nov 27, 2001, 3:07 AM

Post #15 of 15 (1658 views)
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Quote
Originally posted by bcktang:
isn't the filter surface suppose to be at least 30% of the pond surface ? n not 30% of the volume of water ??????
****
Hi BCK

Just came back from a break at Genting Highlands. Misty and freezing cold but a nice change from the sizzling weather down here in PJ. Anyway, you are right, the general rule is that the bio-filter surface area size should be 30% of the surface area of the pond/tank. So if the depth of your filter box is the same as your pond it works out to be 30% of the volume of your main tank. Apparently for some reason (which I am still trying to figure out) the surface area of the filter box is more important than the depth. Thus the depth of the filter box is often ignored in calculation of the size of the filter. But some do say an ideal depth of the filter box is about 3-4 feet. I speculate that good bacteria only colonise the top part of your filter media so that is why depth is not important in calculating the size of your filter, but surface area is. But I am guessing. Perhaps a koi guru can shed some light on this.
*****

another question is why do u recommend me a fiberglass tank, n what r ur opinion on tangki ?

***
I think a good filter box can be made of any material so long as it can last long and won't leak easily. You wouldn't want your koi to try some "dry swimming". I am not sure what material a tanki is made of, but so long as it is durable, it is thumbs up!
*****

as for the filter,
if i do use 3 rubbish bins, can i use rocks as the filter medium ? i saw some DIY filter, where there is a section of water under some rocks where the water will 1st go to bfore overflowing at the top to the next chamber, the dirt will accumulate under the rocks n it can be drained out at anytime.

*****
Rocks can be used a mechanical filter to trap wastes but I am not so sure it can be effective as a bio-filter seeing it doesn't have the large surface area needed for good bacteria to build homes on.
****

so i use only rocks as the medium?
will the backteria still grow ?
***
I guess using rocks as a medium would be like trying to set up a housing estate on the moon as rocks are not quite as habitable for good bacteria as fibre mats, sintered glass, bio-balls, bio-rings and other time-tested media.
****

i have 1 idea which is
water fills up the 1st chamber of filter through the bottom drain, filling to the top where a pipe will divert the water to the bottome of the 2nd chamber.

in second chamber,the water diverted to the bottom will flow upwards through a few kgs of rocks, n then flows to the 3rd chamber which is also diverted to the bottom of that chamber

same thing happens in the 3rd chamber,same as the 2nd.

both 3 chambers will have a drainage pipe, where when i wan to clean the filter, i just flush them all out

workable idea ?????

***
Sounds good. Hope it works. I think you'll need to put more stuff other than rocks into the chambers.
***


All the best and cheers. Maybe some of the veterans can drop some pearls of wisdom into this discussion....

Cheers
[biggrin]

Josh

 
 
 



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