Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System: High Nitrates Level? Try This!: Page 6

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High Nitrates Level? Try This!

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dttk
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Nov 24, 2001, 12:04 AM

Post #126 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Ahmad, suspect that your ammonia readings are not correct. Anyway how's the condition of the koi? Are they showing clamped fins or behaving abnormally. Any reddish streaks on their body? If not, please recheck your ammonia level and make sure that the test kit is not expired. In the meantime, don't feed the koi until we can confirm the ammonia level. Change half the water as mentioned. Remember to dechlorinate the tap water. Yes, you'll have to top up the salt by 50% if you change half the water each time. No need to add zeolite now since you're using salt. Otherwise more ammonia will be released back into the water! Good luck!

johnson lee
Veteran

Nov 24, 2001, 5:20 AM

Post #127 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Ahmad

Welcome to the Forum! I am not sure the ammonia reading is correct because a reading of 6 would have killed all your fishes by now.

The fishes that flash (rub against the base of the pond) are not happy with the water condition. If you need any help, I too live in Klang. You can let me know where exactly you live and I will go over and see what I can do.

My contact no. is 012-2277970. In the meantime, as advised, change about 50% of your water and add salt to 0.3%. Stop feeding until water readings are normal.

Rgds
Johnson

crazoo
User

Nov 24, 2001, 7:44 PM

Post #128 of 311 (45951 views)
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yes it is quite strange but i wonder myself because when i touch the water by hand after the test it felt very strange and after a while it will start getting itchy very fast unless i wash with a lot of water.i even got an infection on my hand but got it cured. but yesterday i change half the filter, put in zeolite,change 50% of the water and put in salt. so i need to take out the zeolite? will do it today. now it is quite ok to touch the water, i dont know if the tester is expired. will try to test again today. get back to you guys tomorrow. by the way the fishes is more relaxed now every time i come and yes i had stopped feeding them as i thought it would be better to make sure everything is ok first and minimize the ammonia.thanks a lot.

SMW1
Veteran

Nov 25, 2001, 8:50 AM

Post #129 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi ahmad,
Hi levels of Ammonia will not cause irratation to the skin (humans)unless the Ammonia level is over 50 in which it will be almost in a solid form. The only element that will cause you to itch is either very high of very low PH. Even then it is very rare.

What do you mean by "when I touch the water it feels funny" ?. somethings not adding up here. Did you retest your water paramaters ?

Stuart

crazoo
User

Nov 25, 2001, 4:42 PM

Post #130 of 311 (45951 views)
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i retest the water parameter today, and change 50% again, add the salt and its great. and yes the ammonia tester is expired. I was so shocked that in this whole klang there is none that sell ammonia tester, know what they say, it is not important and ppl rarely buy it plus chlorine tester is enough.. will wait till i get back to damansara in monday to buy it.
the only problem left now is i can see a lot of substances in the water, i change 50% of the water for 3 days already, cant see any changes. I also put in zeolite coz some say the zeolite ties the substances to the ground. well i am still finding the answer and any advice would be great.

thanks now my water is safe for my koi`s.

dttk
Veteran

Nov 26, 2001, 12:48 AM

Post #131 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Ahmad, if the koi are behaving normally, them chances are the ammonia level is ok. However do get a proper one as soon as possible. Zeolite binds ammonia but releases it back into water when salt is present. So please don't add zeolite now. The water will clear up soon. Continue zero feeding and maintain salt concentration at 0.3%. Please post your ammonia readings soon.

crazoo
User

Nov 27, 2001, 3:13 PM

Post #132 of 311 (45951 views)
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sadly as i was just wanted to buy the ammonium tester today, i received the sad news that all my koi`s died. Probably caused by too much chlorine as someone left the tabwater on dont know for how long. Symptoms are belly,finn,are whittish and skins dropping off, with eyes greyish. I cried,but i wont stop here. I will continue to finish my trickle tower and with only a fish left. there is one shop in taman tun, i think the name is 'quest aquatic' damansara kim, is it good? quoted me a chagoi of 7-8 inch for 120. havent seen it yet though.

finally, please correct me if i am wrong, my pond size is 6ft*5ft*2.5 = 1.6 tonne , 360 gallon?

i sketch a new pond hoping to get through with it, space no problem and money also same, but then my father wakes me up from my dream. he`s not even prepared to let it be 1 metre deep. I will always keep trying how ever but surely wont get the recommended 5-6ft deep.

is my koi`s died because of too much chlorine? or if i am not sure should i clean through my pond and start all over again my hard work developing the nice bio-filter?

this forum really change my whole view of having a pond and fishes.

(This post was edited by ahmad on Mar 11, 2003, 3:00 PM)

TonyG
User

Nov 27, 2001, 11:09 PM

Post #133 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Ahmad

I really feel for you when i read that all your kois died, save for one. It happens to me some time back when my tank full of goldfishes (about 20 of them) died overnight. I still feel sad when i think of the incident. Nevertheless, pick up from where you are now, learn from your mistake and look forward. Have a never say died attitude and you will be there. You are in, what we call 'pay school fees' period.

Ok, the volume of your pond is 75 cubic ft, which equal to 561 gallons. Having 5' to 6' deep pond is recommended if you want to have 'Jumbo', otherwise, 2.5' is Ok, you can rear beautiful kois is this pond too.

As for now, my advise is get your water condition correct first before you start buying new kois. Use you current koi as a 'tester' fish. Complete your TT and get all the necessary test kit. Check your water regularly (2 days once) and when you get a constantly good readings for about a week, you may start to hunt for kois. By the time you complete quarantine those kois, your pond is in the condition to have them. However, please do not add too many kois at one go, your filter may not accept it, my advise is 2 kois per fortnight.

Lastly, yes, i think your kois may died due to chlorine, as cholrine content in Malaysia tapwater is quite high (for koi that is). So take this opportunity to educate whoever may be concerned. (steady lah guru [biggrin])

Good Luck and I'm sure you will have a very beautiful pond with much admired living jewel. (Jealous...... [biggrin])

Cheers

Tony

Joshua Lee
User

Nov 28, 2001, 12:02 AM

Post #134 of 311 (45951 views)
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Dear Ahmad

Power Rangers and Koi Keepers have one thing in common - they never give up. So, don't lose heart. Like Tony, I have lost lots of beautiful goldfish before. Happened when I was outstation and there was a power failure. Also said sayonara to 7 lovely kois when the pond dried out through an accident, so I know how you feel.

You have a good sized pond. Tony's right. Your pond is 75 cu. ft = 561 gallons which is 2,123 litres (2.1 tons). To get in imperial gallons just divide by 1.2 and you get 465 imperial gallons. ( 1 cu. meter = 35.3 cu. ft)

All the best in constructing your new pond. Hee Hee. Most of us have big problem with small space and small money. It's great to meet a comrade who has no problem with either of these..

Cheers...

Smile

Josh

dttk
Veteran

Nov 28, 2001, 1:08 AM

Post #135 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Ahmad, like the others, I'm sorry to hear abt your koi. Learn to keep good water and your koi will keep themselves well. Smile

As suggested, get all the necessary water test kits. Don't be in a hurry to add more koi now. Take care of one thing at a time. Good luck!

crazoo
User

Nov 28, 2001, 7:18 AM

Post #136 of 311 (45951 views)
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thanks for all your concerns and it is really helpful. at least the one that did not die is one of my favourites even though very small coz it wont go with the crowd. it would go by itself and will eat by itself eventhough no body is up yet, that is brave. good to hear from the seefu`s.

by the time my pond stabilizes, other than quest aquatic in taman tun, where else do you recommend to get koi`s,perhaps phone number would be good way to start my search. i would first prefer chagoi to be my ponds charming fish.
and size around 6inch to 8 inch.

ok, about my trickle filter, can i just put in all bioballs without any matts? because i think this is just to give more O2 and bring down all the nh`s ? its like an external helper beside my current biofilter? and the quest aquatic adviced me not to buy an air pump ? should i or should i not buy a pump. for aeration information my pond is installed with pvc on half of it with a lot of holes so when pump through it would create a lot of bubbles. but throughout the forum i heard that it is best to supply air to the filter? please advice ..

p/s: to prevent the tragedy happening again i had banned anyone using water tabs 5 meter from my pond. by the way johnson, i live in sungai udang.

(This post was edited by ahmad on Mar 11, 2003, 3:00 PM)

TonyG
User

Nov 28, 2001, 10:21 PM

Post #137 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Ahmad

TT should'nt retain any water, which it why it is also known as wet/dry filter. The outlet should be at least 2 times bigger then the inlet, this way water will not retain in it. So in this sense, you do not need a air pump in it. Bioball is fine for TT media.

Tony

dttk
Veteran

Nov 28, 2001, 11:28 PM

Post #138 of 311 (45951 views)
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Yes Ahmad, bioballs alone is sufficient for a TT, you don't need mats. The air pump is usually required for a wet or submerged filtration system only.

johnson lee
Veteran

Nov 29, 2001, 12:56 AM

Post #139 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Ahmad

So sorry to hear about your kois. Frown

But as the rest of the guys have said, do not give up this wonderful hobby over this incident.

I would like to assure you that this happens to most if not all of us when we started out with keeping kois. I, too have lost some beautiful kois during the learning process and they were painful experiences.

But we all learn from our 'mistakes' and move on and try to become better 'parents' to our beloved kois. You have also come to the right place to learn the basic tenets of koi-keeping and we will help you as much as we possibly can to ensure that you have a better understanding of the basics such as maintaining good water, testing of the water parameters (pH, ammonia, nitrites, KH, nitrates etc), building an adequate filter to meet the needs of your pond, building a trickle tower filter to eliminate the nasty threesome, treating diseased kois, medication etc. etc.

I do not want to repeat what has been mentioned by the rest as they are sound advice. Follow the advice and you will be OK for a good new start. Smile

All the best to you in your koi-keeping endeavours!

Rgds
Johnson

PS. As mentioned, I too, live in Klang (near Bandar Baru Klang) so if you want, I can drop by and pay you a visit. Just give me your full address and perhaps with a bit of direction and I should be able to locate your house. I am free this Sunday afternoon, so give me a call at 012-2277 970 and I will be more than glad to meet up with you. Smile

crazoo
User

Nov 29, 2001, 2:20 AM

Post #140 of 311 (45951 views)
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sorry to have confused you all, what i meant by the air pump is for my bio-filter and main pond ,, not the t.t, i am aware that the slow the flow the better for the t.t.
so for my pond and my bio-filter do i need to have an air pump.
by the way i am testing a smaller version of t.t with 50 bio-balls today. using a pvc sized 10inch dia. minimum 18 for the bioballs and probably 3ft before the bioballs is empty..

johnson, am i right? i will get back to you about this sunday. and u have told me that u lived in klang before, that is why i mention again that i am from klang.

here is my add:
489 a jln sungai udang, 41250 klang.

for details on how to go to my house please email me. Smile

thanks again,

p/s:but where to start finding a chagoi? somebody are yet to answer me that.

johnson lee
Veteran

Nov 29, 2001, 4:30 AM

Post #141 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Ahmad

You can find some good koi dealers by looking up this website's homepage under Koi Dealers.

Some of the ones I always go to include Kohaku Koi Centre, UCP Aquafarm and Zen. You can visit them and enlist their help to get your chagoi! Smile

Anyway, I think using so few bio-balls for your TT may not be sufficient for an effective TT filter. I consider my TT filter rather small for my pond size and that uses about 300 bio-balls!!

So if you want an effective TT, you need to build a bigger one compared to what you have in mind.

It is good to have an airpump for the main pond and one for the filter. Good aeration helps the good bacteria to breed more rapidly and high levels of dissolved oxygen is essential for the well-being of your kois.

All the best!

Rgds
Johnson

PS. Thanks for the address but you did not give me your e-mail address for me to obtain the directions and the landmarks.

(This post was edited by jtklee on Apr 11, 2003, 2:00 PM)

crazoo
User

Nov 29, 2001, 3:35 PM

Post #142 of 311 (45951 views)
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as i have said, it was only for testing but i didnt bought the pvc pipe today anyway so maybe i will go straight for the real one of maybe 300-500 pieces of BB.
by the way johnson, how big is your t.t? if u are using a pvc. and how do u connect outlet to pond?

here is my email, crazoo007@yahoo.com.

johnson lee
Veteran

Nov 30, 2001, 1:10 AM

Post #143 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Ahmad

Thanks for the e-mail. Will contact you ASAP. Sorry to inform you that I am not able to visit you this weekend due to some pressing matters. Will make a mental note to do so next week. Wink

My TT filter is about 4' in height and I think it is still insufficient. What I did was installing a small pump in the last chamber of my filter and pump the water onto a tray filled with holes. Below that, I stacked 5 plastic trays filled with bio-balls and bio-rings. The last tray is empty and I drilled a hole here to fix a PVC pipe as the outlet back into the pond. I make sure that the outlet is bigger than the inlet pipe so that no water stays in any of the trays.

There are many ways to make a TT filter. You can see a good illustration by Mark, our Senior Member on the homepage under Trickle Tower.

All the best.

Rgds
Johnson

crazoo
User

Dec 22, 2001, 11:19 AM

Post #144 of 311 (45951 views)
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my pond turns green, is there any other way to help the bio-filter to mature other than add in the bio kick start?
i was hoping for to to be matured in two weeks..
i am confused, because i heard if i wash the green matt using the pond water and put it back it would be ok. but then again probably because the same time i change 80 percent of the water after that..

and i had build a tt filter,, its now 1050 pieces.. but cant see the result coz the water is totally green now...

'fight with the best, die like the rest..'

SMW1
Veteran

Dec 22, 2001, 2:01 PM

Post #145 of 311 (45951 views)
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Stay calm Ahmad,

The bio filter will start to kick in after 3 - 6 weeks (from setting up), and then you will start to see the diiference over night.

If your pump is strong enough to circulate the water once an hour, then this may even happen sooner.

The only way to speed up the process is to borrow a piece of matting or flocor from a friend who already has a mature bio filter or buy some quick start for bio filters.

I would not suggest washing your filter media at this stage as this will slow down the process as you will be loosing a small amount of your baterica back into the water.

I also would not reccomend changing more that 50% of the water at one time. Did you do an 80% change to get rid of the green or another reason ?. If it was to get rid of the green, then this would be a waste of time.

Tap water contains lots of minerals and metalic particals (even after the anti chlorine is added), that the green eyed monsters thrive on. Unless your filter is already mature, changing the water will not really speed up the process, unless your water parameters are poor, it is not necessary at this stage.

Be patient my friend and before the start of January you should have a clear pond.

Stuart

crazoo
User

Dec 23, 2001, 12:05 AM

Post #146 of 311 (45951 views)
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i did add the biokickstart, so what i can do now is just wait for it to kick in... i changed 80% of the water because remember when all my fish died but 1. so the water was a bit smelly.. so i changed... thanks anyway..

SMW1
Veteran

Dec 25, 2001, 8:28 AM

Post #147 of 311 (45951 views)
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Sorry, I didn't realise that all your fish died. How is the one left doing ?

I hope all works out for you. It sounds as though you have had some problems in the past. You can count on me to help you out if you start to experience any more unpleasentness.

Stuart

newbie
Novice

Jan 15, 2002, 12:18 PM

Post #148 of 311 (45951 views)
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I'm confused about depth of bioball in TT, Mark say it must 30 cm minimal. Can anyone explain?? Mr. Khoo?

SMW1
Veteran

Jan 15, 2002, 12:53 PM

Post #149 of 311 (45951 views)
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Hi Newbie,

The taller the trickle tower the better.
You basically need water to run over as many bio balls as possible.

Some people make their Trickle towers shorter and wider, but this goes against the whole purpose of the trickle tower.

If you can imagine this. The water must pass over as many bio balls as possible. The more the better. However none of the bio balls must be submerged in water at any time. The purpose of the wet/dry system as apposed to the wet submerged system is that the trickle tower will allow maximum oxygen for the bateria to thrive. For each bio ball the water passes on to and off of, the water becomes "cleaner".

I hope this helps.

Stuart

crazoo
User

Jan 16, 2002, 11:51 PM

Post #150 of 311 (45943 views)
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Re: [SMW1] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi smw, just to inform u that my pond is clear now.. and the survivor fish is in excellant condition. but now it has a friend.. it is particularly close to my kujaku than others...

where can i find a good aerator.. ?

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