Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System: High Nitrates Level? Try This!: Page 9

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High Nitrates Level? Try This!

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Mongrel Hordes
Koi Lover

Jun 14, 2003, 6:18 AM

Post #201 of 312 (32752 views)
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Re: [rogermoo] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I found this:

http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/messages/1827.html

And a pic of one as well:
http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/messages/2245.html

(This post was edited by Mongrel Hordes on Jun 14, 2003, 6:26 AM)

dttk
Senior Member

Jun 21, 2003, 1:44 AM

Post #202 of 312 (32676 views)
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Re: [Mongrel Hordes] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for the links. I think the last point abt not needing mechanical filtration is controversial. Smile

Always friendly :)

Mongrel Hordes
Koi Lover

Jun 23, 2003, 12:02 PM

Post #203 of 312 (32657 views)
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Re: [dttk] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Your welcome! Smile

douglezzz
Koi Lover

Jun 24, 2003, 10:08 PM

Post #204 of 312 (32636 views)
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Re: [Doc Conrad] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Oh, my goodness, Mark has finally figured out why his koi were bug eyed, namely the high nitrate levels were doing it! Does that mean when I post here once again that I can run my salt up to 1.0% for either salt or koi without getting bug eyed fish he will finally believe me?

Just a question, Mark, think through the data which led you to post the absurd posted observation that salt levels above 0.5% causes bug eyed fish and see if what I say here is not so.........I certainly see no bug eyed fish up to and including 1% salt levels........

Roddy Conrad

I recall a doc, long ago, named Timothy Leary that was another chemist giving advice on the regular use of chemicals to "enhance the quality of life"
The difference was his "subjects" had the option to agree or not.
I believe Ozzie Ozborne, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and Ron Wood followed his advice..........

Wink

http://aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm

(This post was edited by douglezzz on Jun 24, 2003, 10:23 PM)

orson
Koi Lover

Aug 5, 2003, 12:23 AM

Post #205 of 312 (32402 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

My koi pond is just a few weeks old but have not incorporated the tt system proposed here. Can you make suggestions as to how I can change one or more of my filter chambers to tt since it seems to be proven that it is most effective in clearing out nitrates. Size of pond is about 16 tons including 6 chamber filter each one measuring about 0.9 x 0.9 x 0.8(depth) meters. Transfer pipes consist of 2 3" pvc pipe that transfers water from the top of previous chamber to the bottom of next chamber. Pumps located at last chamber. 1 pump to waterfalls the other to underwater return. Can't seem to figure out how to create less water in one of the chambers to mimick tt system.

Orson

rickout03
Koi Lover

Aug 20, 2003, 8:02 AM

Post #206 of 312 (32321 views)
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Re: [Mongrel Hordes] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Also check out this forum and the thread on Skippy filter systems

http://www.akca.org/index/fboard/fboard.htm

alantang_85
Koi Lover

Nov 6, 2003, 12:38 AM

Post #207 of 312 (31845 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Will it work if i just let the water fill up in the bioball chamber intead of simply allowing the water to trickle down?

looialex
Koi Lover

Nov 12, 2003, 9:17 PM

Post #208 of 312 (31779 views)
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Re: [Mark] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Advertising contents posted by someone with stone in his head was deleted.

(This post was edited by Khoobg on Dec 16, 2003, 11:11 PM)

robot_engineer
Koi Lover

Nov 13, 2003, 8:37 AM

Post #209 of 312 (31766 views)
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Re: [alantang_85] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Alan,

The purpose of a trickle tower is to allow water to mix very well with oxygen (air). The trickling (dripping) affect is the key of mixing water and air. By submerging the bioballs into the water, the chamber becomes a standard filter chamber, not a tt. It will work, but it does not work like a tt. It is the combination of surface contact (bioballs), and mixing of water and air that allow the good bacterials to grow and get rid of the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Any koi sifu please correct me if my interpretation is wrong here.

Regards,

-Steve

bayileong
Koi Lover

Nov 14, 2003, 3:56 PM

Post #210 of 312 (31728 views)
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Re: [orson] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, I am sorry, I know your posting was way back in August but I just saw it. How is your TT doing?

alantang_85
Koi Lover

Nov 14, 2003, 4:44 PM

Post #211 of 312 (31726 views)
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Re: [robot_engineer] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thank you steve.

Sound like another good component for my pond. My next step is to construct a TT.

Wink

fff
Koi Lover

Nov 24, 2003, 4:14 PM

Post #212 of 312 (31613 views)
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Re: [Mark] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Can you please provide some pics/ internal works pics for us to share?

fff
Koi Lover

Nov 24, 2003, 4:18 PM

Post #213 of 312 (31612 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Y not? plant a pot of plants like arrow head, plants as long as can do well half merged water. instead of soil put sand.

There you go more than 6" of sand.

fff
Koi Lover

Nov 24, 2003, 4:40 PM

Post #214 of 312 (31611 views)
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Re: [jtang] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Are you living in SG? If so, go to kallang basin, one of the fish shop there. 10 bucks per 100pcs.

somewhere near kaki bukit ave 1 ( near my work place). selling 9 bucks per 100pcs.

hope this helps.

fff
Koi Lover

Nov 24, 2003, 6:13 PM

Post #215 of 312 (31605 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I dont understand why u and the rest mentioned that one must allow the water to drop a distance before reaches the bio ball? I feel that as long as the amount of dissolved air in the water is high enough ( araete the part below it goes into a TT )then it should work then.

I read at biohome website, best flow rate is 5cm/s. I feel that this unit of measurement is more relevant than how many times the pond is cycled in 1 hr. Because every filter esp DIY ones are diff in size and shape.

The fact a lot of SG pple live in matchboxes, the pond of theirs is not big at all. So when we all talk about how many times should a water in the pond be cycled, often I feel that it is not applicable to them as by using a small pump, it might not be efficient in cleaning the dirt and feaces.

Like them I faces this problem, so I designed my own filter , link :http://www.koi.com.my/cgi-bin/koiforum/gforum.cgi?post=32269;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Please feel free to comment.

fff
Koi Lover

Nov 24, 2003, 6:15 PM

Post #216 of 312 (31605 views)
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Re: [Mark] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

In this region, many of us do not have the luxury to build big ponds in expensive lands. We therefore built small concrete ones or install ready made small fibreglass tanks. In view of the constraint, there is no or little room left for plants. So installing a trickle tower in such situation is the most logical way to help us to get rid of the nitrates.

tRUE..

Perhaps my design works for s'porean: http://www.koi.com.my/cgi-bin/koiforum/gforum.cgi?post=32269;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

frydaddy
New User

Nov 29, 2003, 1:22 AM

Post #217 of 312 (31562 views)
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Re: [fff] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

One information that I failed to find in the 8 long pages of this interesting thread is what happened when the TT got dried up, like in a blackout for instance.
I would really hate it to re-cycle the TT all over again due to a several hours of blackout.

Chip.

cwnchong
Member

Nov 30, 2003, 5:41 PM

Post #218 of 312 (31545 views)
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Re: [frydaddy] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, This TT topic is sure very interesting. I wish to find out more about this TT stuff.

What kind of cubic area (volume) of TT media to a ton of pond water for example. I have seen TT in the marine aquarium shops, they are as big as their aquarium. If base on this proportion, a 1 ton pond needs an approx 1 cu meter of media if I am not wrong.

I hope the gurus in this forum can shade some light with us.

Cheers

frydaddy
New User

Nov 30, 2003, 10:31 PM

Post #219 of 312 (31540 views)
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Re: [cwnchong] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't know about marine aquarium, but I'm betting that a 1:1 ratio is an overkill. TT is supposed to be more efficient than submerged media, some say that it is 10x more efficient, some even say 100x more efficient (an overstatement, IMHO). That means, you will require less than area/volume to replace your current filtration setup.

Perhaps in an aquarium shops setting, it should be oversized, since the tank will mostlikely be overcrowded.

Chip.

cwnchong
Member

Dec 1, 2003, 9:54 AM

Post #220 of 312 (31536 views)
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Re: [frydaddy] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Chip,

I have to agree with you on the efficiency, if it is compared with the fully submerge bio-filter. Becoz our bio-filter are usually too deep. I may be wrong, this IOMO that the depth of our filter ( beside the few inches of it useful surface) has a small benefit only i.e. only good for stabilizing the temperature, but not for cultivating good bacteria.

TT is preferred becoz its surfaces are fully utilized & sufficient oxygen are supplied more evenly in the air. I wish to know how big should our TT be, compare to pond size.

Tks/rgds

frydaddy
New User

Dec 1, 2003, 9:51 PM

Post #221 of 312 (31523 views)
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Re: [cwnchong] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah, I can't find good guidelines on the sizing of the TT too.
I suppose we can borrow the rule of 30%, and apply 10-15% of it for a TT setup.

Chip.

goldy
Koi Lover

Jan 10, 2004, 7:32 AM

Post #222 of 312 (31315 views)
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Re: [frydaddy] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi you seem to be comparing the tt with the tricle filter, if you are. you are right about it being more eficiant i would not go as far as saying 100 times, but one third of media volume which would probably give you a filter quarter the size of a submerged filter, a higher stocking level and higher pumping capasity, no dwelltime,?

the tt and the t filter are totally differant. haveing said that if you could combine the two you would have a perfect fillter?

i too am very interested in this thread nobody seems to know why it works , i personally like doc conrads theiry about bacteria converting the nitrate to gas then being expelled into the atmosphere, if not the gas gets reabsorbed into the water and back into the pond as nitrate, shuerly a simple test for this would be to get a tt that is known to work and encase it so that the gas cant escape if this is why the tt works the nitrate would increase and you have your answer, if this is the case the tt would be more easally adaptobal to differant situations, the more we know the more we can use to are advantage. i have noticed that bio balls seem to be the prefered media virtually unclogable and very open which leans me towards the theary about the gas exchange, also the slower the trickle the better if there was lots of water splashin about comeing in contact with the gas reabsorbing the nitrate,

thats just my opinion the only knowledge i have on the tt is by this very interesting thread

thanks mark

BillyBoy
Koi Lover

Feb 16, 2004, 2:38 PM

Post #223 of 312 (30788 views)
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Re: High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I was wondering if the relatively high incidence of surface to air exposure of the nutrient (waste) laden water with the bacteria is possibly the cause of the Kaldnes K1 Media's (in the Evolution Aqua Nexus filter) as yet undocumented (?) ability to remove nitrates by the process of expelling ammonia/ammonium wastes directly to gas (NO2)? Especially in comparison to traditional pressurised bio media filters that have no air interface.

Anyone have any bright ideas on the matter?

chiselchst
Koi Lover

Feb 28, 2004, 7:59 PM

Post #224 of 312 (30673 views)
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Re: [BillyBoy] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Great thread. I am learning a lot. Thanks to all that have posted. I do have a couple of questions;

1. Can bio-ribbon, or any other filter media be used in a TT? Has anyone out there used Biohome? (They make some pretty bold claims concerning surface area...and it's ability to lower nitrates from the small passage ways that they claim will create an anaerobic bacteria).

2. Would a vortex filter be a good idea if used before a TT to remove solids and others debris?

3. What type of filter media does a "Bakki Shower" use?

4. What is the recommended MINIMUM height of a TT? What is the maximum width? Should the max. diameter be somewhere around 10-inches, such as a 10-inch PVC pipe?

Thanks in advance,
Mitch
My Opinion - Worth What You Paid For It...

chiselchst
Koi Lover

Feb 29, 2004, 1:59 AM

Post #225 of 312 (30668 views)
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Re: [chiselchst] High Nitrates Level? Try This! [In reply to]	Can't Post

If nitrates can be stripped from the water by the aeration process, I would be VERY curious to see how these de-gassing columns would work. One could do practically the same thing by pumping air, counter flow, up through a TT. It wouldn't that diffucult to fab up. Find a continous duty blower might be difficult though...

My hunch says a degassing column would work well. But that's just a guess.

(I work in a large refinery, and we have several processes such as this. I'm going to look in to this process, and see if I can come up with an idea for something similar.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/7857

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/7855

Mitch
My Opinion - Worth What You Paid For It...

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