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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System:
Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond

 





 


vipvip68
Koi Lover

Aug 13, 2007, 1:21 PM

Post #1 of 18 (2104 views)
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Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond Can't Post
Hi,

I'm planning to construct a mud pond. The location I have in mind is lucky enough to have fresh mountain rain water passing in a nearby canal. The soil is mostly made of clay.

I already have a cement pond with a filtration system but I've no clue as to how a mud pond with constant flowing water should be constructed. My plan is to have the Koi grow to Large/Jumbo size.

Most of the websites I've come across suggest a depth of at least 6ft. How big should the area be for the Koi to reach Jumbo size? Also, I plan to have plants integrated as well to act as natural filters.


Can anyone recommend a good layout, depth ... I'm not sure on how deep the sides of the pond should be in comparison to the middle part.


Also, with the fresh water constantly replenishing the pond... will there be a need for a mechanical filtration system, air pump etc.?

This pond will be in a vacation home in the mountains... There is a caretaker for the house but I dont want to spend on unnecessary things (electricity).... that the Pond wont actually need.

The plan is to have an island in the middle of the pond with chairs and table... then to have a bridge to access that island.


Any help would be appreciated.... THANKS!


(This post was edited by vipvip68 on Aug 13, 2007, 1:29 PM)


CClim75
Koi Lover

Aug 17, 2007, 1:51 PM

Post #2 of 18 (2071 views)
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Re: [vipvip68] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi vipvip68,
the shape of plate is the best! u can refer to the attachment. Fresh water constantly replenishing the pond is the 'must'.
Attachments: Mudpond.jpg (55.8 KB)


vipvip68
Koi Lover

Aug 17, 2007, 4:22 PM

Post #3 of 18 (2063 views)
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Re: [CClim75] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi CClim75,

Thanks for your advice! With the "plate"like shape... would you recommend the angle / slope for this? The pond will be around 30ft x 20ft ( 9 x 6 meters) oval shaped.

Also, is it necessary to place plants/shelving along the sides of the pond to act as natural filters? The fresh water flow into the pond is not so fast... maybe it will fill 1 gallon in 10 seconds.


Thanks!


(This post was edited by vipvip68 on Aug 17, 2007, 4:23 PM)


CClim75
Koi Lover

Aug 17, 2007, 5:30 PM

Post #4 of 18 (2059 views)
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Re: [vipvip68] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi vipvip68,
Firstly i would like to apologize for my poor english, hope u can understand.
There is to specific angle for the slope. As long as it is convenience for u to get down when harvesting (after 6 months in mud pond). But do remember koi also like to dig around in mud pond.
1 gallon of water in 10 seconds is more than enough. It would be 8,640 gallons a day, your pond is roughly 10,000-11,000gallons.
No filter is needed for mud pond, but don't put to many koi in there!
Must do the preparation for the mud pond before you put the koi into it.

Hopes the info will help!


vipvip68
Koi Lover

Aug 17, 2007, 9:13 PM

Post #5 of 18 (2055 views)
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Re: [CClim75] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
As of now I don't have any plans of harvesting Koi after 6 months.... The mud pond is more of for a Japanese garden pond but with clay instead of concrete... and I want to have Jumbo koi swimming.


With regards to the design, I have a landscape architect who will plan on the layout... Water clarity is also a concern for me. I don't intent to see all the way to the bottom but I hope the plants will be able to clear the water a bit so that I can see the Koi if they swim near the surface.


Now that you've mentioned it.. .I'll integrate a design so that it will be easy to go down and harvest some Koi ... and maybe put in my concrete Pond in the City.


What kind of preparation do I need to do before I introduce Koi in it?

In your drawing I see the bottom drain does not reach all the way to the bottom. Is this to make sure that the pond does not drain dry?

I'm thinking of installing a release valve to flush the water out if ever I need to drain/ clean the pond.... anyway, Is the drain really necessary for the Mud Pond?


vipvip68
Koi Lover

Aug 17, 2007, 9:20 PM

Post #6 of 18 (2054 views)
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Re: [vipvip68] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
I think what I'm trying to do is build a combination of Mud Pond and Japanese Water Garden....


Is it possible to achieve the 2? I want the Koi to grow big.... but I also want the Pond to look nice and for the Koi to be visible.. (I realize it will not be as clear as a Cement Pond)


Maybe the clay will settle down sooner or later or the plants will make the water clear enough.... Any info on this?


CClim75
Koi Lover

Aug 18, 2007, 8:56 AM

Post #7 of 18 (2037 views)
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Re: [vipvip68] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi vipvip68,

In the drawing, there is 3 pipes that connect to the drainage pipe. Assume that the pond was 6ft deep, from the edge 1st pipe was 2ft below water level, 2nd pipe 4ft below water level, 3rd pipe 6ft below water level but you have to put a pipe that out to the surface to act as skimmer n overflow. 3rd pipe was removetable when you want to drain of the water.

sorry i've to stop here something urgen, i'll continue later. hope u don't mind.
In Reply To
As of now I don't have any plans of harvesting Koi after 6 months.... The mud pond is more of for a Japanese garden pond but with clay instead of concrete... and I want to have Jumbo koi swimming.


With regards to the design, I have a landscape architect who will plan on the layout... Water clarity is also a concern for me. I don't intent to see all the way to the bottom but I hope the plants will be able to clear the water a bit so that I can see the Koi if they swim near the surface.


Now that you've mentioned it.. .I'll integrate a design so that it will be easy to go down and harvest some Koi ... and maybe put in my concrete Pond in the City.


What kind of preparation do I need to do before I introduce Koi in it?

In your drawing I see the bottom drain does not reach all the way to the bottom. Is this to make sure that the pond does not drain dry?

I'm thinking of installing a release valve to flush the water out if ever I need to drain/ clean the pond.... anyway, Is the drain really necessary for the Mud Pond?


CClim75
Koi Lover

Aug 18, 2007, 12:20 PM

Post #8 of 18 (2025 views)
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Re: [vipvip68] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
O.K! The other purpose is to save on medication. Lower your water level to 2ft and you will save 2/3 of medication. Be careful of anchor worm and fish lice attack friend!
Since we can't have a bottom drain in mud pond, we need to drain out the water n put them on 'sun bath' for couple of week Crazy and it helps you to solve the debris problem tooSmile
After some time in mud pond Hi / Sumi will be faded too, Be careful! That why i suggested harvest the fish after 6 month. But some time it depends to the characteristic of that pond. Be patient friendPirate


femme_artist51
Koi Lover


Aug 19, 2007, 1:49 AM

Post #9 of 18 (1999 views)
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Re: [CClim75] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Vipvip
We have a mud pond made from clay in North Georgia. It sure is hard to see the fish even at a foot down. Our pond holds water most of the year. Occasionally we have to have water going to it. We put in gypsum which helps clear the water. Only 1 time did we actually see down to the bottom. You having water constantly flowing might help out a lot. It doesn't in our case. Good luck mud is great for the koi and they are the guys that cause the mud to get churned up. Some people say to get algae built up on the bottom of the pond. We tried that and had wonderful green water, did not clear up the water much. The people in the group should help you out a lot. If you do a search on mud ponds there are several people, including myself (when we started our mud pond we asked a lot of ???)who made posts. So check it out. Lynda


vipvip68
Koi Lover

Aug 19, 2007, 8:53 AM

Post #10 of 18 (1998 views)
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Re: [femme_artist51] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks to CClim75 and Lynda for the advise.


I'll check out those forums you mentioned. I'll post some pics soon of the site and the work in progress.


Thanks!


femme_artist51
Koi Lover


Aug 19, 2007, 8:56 AM

Post #11 of 18 (1996 views)
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Re: [vipvip68] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi, can't wait to see what you do with your pond. It should be great. I also know that betonite helps over a period of time to seal small holes in a pond. It will even swell and help with a leak in a lined pond. Keep us posted on how things go.

Lynda


vipvip68
Koi Lover

Aug 19, 2007, 9:23 AM

Post #12 of 18 (1995 views)
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Re: [femme_artist51] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Lynda,


I was going over your posts on the mud pond. It seems that you and I are pretty much concerned about being able to see the Koi.


I talked to the contractor earlier and he recommended that we do a combination of a mud pond / japanese garden.


The plan is to riprap the edge of the pond sloping down...with this setup only the bottom of the pond will be clay. (plan is for a 30ft x 20ft pond @ 6ft max depth)

I also plan to introduce a lot of plants (lilies, lotus .. etc) ... along the edges of the pond (shelving)

My question is.... When you say that it's hard to see the Koi in your pond.. is it because of the clay or the green water? Also, what is gypsum and where can I get it?


Would you also have any pictures of your pond? I'm curious to see how you did it.


Regards!


(This post was edited by vipvip68 on Aug 19, 2007, 9:26 AM)


femme_artist51
Koi Lover


Aug 19, 2007, 9:27 PM

Post #13 of 18 (1975 views)
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Re: [vipvip68] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi vip
I found the gypsum at a pond store. It looks like dark drown or black granules. We threw it in the pond by the handful. It seems to of kept the mud down.

What do you mean by riprap the edge? Do you mean different flat levels like steps, or ledges? So what will you put on the sides, just plant life?? I had thought of sloping my sides more, there is a place in NC that has mud ponds, with no flowing water freshly dumping in the mud pond. They have sloped sides and it looks like gravel on the sides or very very rocky soil.

Can only see the koi when they come to the surface. The lady who runs the pet store in town, has a huge pond with huge koi. You can see her koi fine. She has natural water flowing into it all the time. You might not have the issues that we have. If you do the gypsum will help out.

Let me know how you are doing with your pond. Give me an idea of what your contractor says about riprap the edge? Oh, I gather on the edges you will have lots of plants, what about down the sides of the pond, what does your contractor say, what will he put there? I have heard of people putting plastic or liner around the sides. I had thought of that, but how do you prevent the water from flowing behind the plastic? Well good luck. Lynda


vipvip68
Koi Lover

Aug 19, 2007, 9:44 PM

Post #14 of 18 (1973 views)
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Re: [femme_artist51] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Lynda,

With regards to the riprap... the edges (including the side walls) will be made of concrete and stones (with shelving for aquatic plants) . This wall will slope all the way from the sides to the bottom of the pond. The bottom of the pond will still be clay though.

Hopefully this setup will minimize the murkiness of the water caused by the clay... yet.. with clay at the bottom... Koi can still feed naturally.


femme_artist51
Koi Lover


Aug 19, 2007, 10:51 PM

Post #15 of 18 (1970 views)
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Re: [vipvip68] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Now that sounds like a great idea. I might try that myself. When we drop the pond next year would be the time. We drop the pond to get out any fry that have grown. Sounds great. I guess you have to use rebarb and wire to keep the cement attached to something. Then the rocks and ledges sound great. You have to cure the water for awhile, I think. So that the lye or something that is in cement doesn't hurt the koi. I think you fill the pond, then drain it again and again. I am not sure about that but probably your contractor would know. Let me know what he says about cement and the curing of it. Let me know how you progress. Still looking in the computer for files of the mud pond construction. You may still get the murky from the koi digging in the bottom, but not as much. Take care Lynda


CClim75
Koi Lover

Aug 20, 2007, 12:16 PM

Post #16 of 18 (1944 views)
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Re: [femme_artist51] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi,
This is one of the mud pond in Malaysia.
They used it for growth out program like the one in japan.
Attachments: Mud pond 02.jpg (90.1 KB)


CClim75
Koi Lover

Aug 20, 2007, 12:23 PM

Post #17 of 18 (1943 views)
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Re: [CClim75] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Here is the picture of dry mud pond.
Attachments: Mud pond 03.jpg (87.4 KB)


femme_artist51
Koi Lover


Aug 20, 2007, 8:56 PM

Post #18 of 18 (1933 views)
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Re: [CClim75] Need expert advise on Natural Mud Pond [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi,
Now that is a muddy mess. Wouldn't think they could get all the fish out of that pond. Must have a huge sein net. Ours is half that size at least. It doesn't appear to be that deep. How deep are their ponds?? thanks Lynda

 
 
 



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