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Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~!

 





 


kokennin62
Koi Lover

Aug 5, 2007, 7:09 AM

Post #1 of 12 (1881 views)
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Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! Can't Post
Hi, this is my first post on my forum.

I live in Hawaii, and I'm looking at possibly putting in a koi pond in the front of my yard. I understand that planning is probably the most important step in the process which is why I want to do a good and thorough job. The first consideration is that I know that with koi deeper ponds seem to be the better way to go, however I was wondering how much climate factors into this. The area that we would be putting the pond would be getting direct sunlight for about 6 hours of the day.

I was hoping to use a pond liner setup with the pond being partly below ground and partly above ground, because the area that I would like to put the pond isn't completely flat. I was thinking about making the whole about a ft to a ft and a half, and building up one course of CMU hollow tile. With this depth is mind is there a certain gallon amount that would be best or is it just based on my budget and location that I'll put the pond? Also is there a minimum gal amount necessary to keep the koi happy.

Also, the pond liner retailer that I talked to talked about having to pump out water rather than bottom drains, but it appears that bottom drains will reduce the amount of maintenance. Ideally I would like the easiest installation process while keeping maintenance at a minimum.

Also if there are any good guides that may fit my needs if any of you could point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you very much in advanced for any information or help that you can give me.


kokennin62
Koi Lover

Aug 6, 2007, 12:24 PM

Post #2 of 12 (1860 views)
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Re: [kokennin62] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
  
So I went out and made a brief outline of where I wanted to put the pond. I figured that I would try to make the pond about 2'4" deep making my pond about 1600gal. I will be digging down and then building up 1 course of 8x8x16 hollow tile to make up the 2'4" depth. I will be using pond liner. Unlike what I previously thought, the area will probably get direct sunlight only a few hours during the day. You can see in the picture which I took about 3 in the afternoon the rocks and the plants block most of the sunlight in the area.




1) What type of filtration set-ups give the least amount of maintenance
2) What kind of $$ cost am I looking at to have these kind of set-ups
3) I noticed that a lot of of the threads talk about these filter chambers, being 1/2 to 1/3 the size of the pond, is this necessary or are there ways around it, taking into consideration the size of my pond.
4) Is there any ways to put bottom drains in pond liner


Once again any help or information will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Kelsey


(This post was edited by kokennin62 on Aug 6, 2007, 12:44 PM)


ayranjim
Koi Lover

Aug 6, 2007, 7:23 PM

Post #3 of 12 (1843 views)
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Re: [kokennin62] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
Hello, well there are many things to look at, first of all, dig deeper, that does not take up more space, but gives more space for the koi to grow, plus deeper water gives them protection from predators! So get some friends to help dig.I would do things right, so do a bottom drain, it is a pain to do this when all this is new, but it will help in the future. As far a hoolow tile, I would recomend concret blocks, especialy since part of this is above ground, and is possible to be hit, or kicked, thus breaking them, concret blocks! Also think about concret being used instead of a liner, liner get holes!! And this is about the worst thing a pond can have, I know that liners are fast, but it is a real pain to have to repair this, if you go with cement, it will be a SOLID construction, it will take a little longer to build, but will last for years! And gravity feed filter is the best way.


kokennin62
Koi Lover

Aug 7, 2007, 1:26 AM

Post #4 of 12 (1830 views)
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Re: [ayranjim] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
Ayranjim thanks for the information!

Here's my thoughts on what you said.

The only reasons why I wouldn't want to dig deeper is the fact that:
1) My front yard isn't completely enclosed, and I am worried about the safety issues. I also need to find out the local laws in Hawaii regarding the depth of a pond. If anyone else knows that that'll be great.
2) In Hawaii I don't think that we have predator problems like other places
3) And as you stated more work Frown but this isn't that big of a deal.

Taking into consideration the fact that there may not be predators what depth is needed to keep koi happy?
If I find out that the local laws don't have a requirement on the depth then I may consider trying to make it a little deeper.

And based off of the dimensions I posted earlier, how big do you think the koi would get given I don't overstock

I understand that especially when installing a bottom drain you run the risk of getting leaks in liner, but my experience with concrete has told me that the only 2 things concrete does is get hard...then crack.

As far as the hollow tile, I was planning on pouring concrete in the holes to ensure structural integrity, and put moss rock corners to make it look a little bit more attractive. My main reasoning is that my front yard is pretty uneven, and I thought using hollow tile would be a good way to make sure that it's level.

Also are there any resources or information online about the gravity filter, and what would this type of setup encompass/cost?

Thanks once again for your reply, I greatly appreciate it.

Regards,


kokennin62
Koi Lover

Aug 7, 2007, 1:54 PM

Post #5 of 12 (1810 views)
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Re: [kokennin62] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
So, I went through a couple guides that I've found online and also read through a couple of the other threads in this forum, and unfortunately I'm still chalk full of questions. Hopefully someone out there will be willing to help out with some of these questions. I tried to do a rough layout just to kind of figure everything out



So I guess the few questions that I have at this time are

Because ground termites are a big problem in hawaii, it's extremely important that whatever I put in doesn't leak because that's just asking for trouble. Has anyone else here have experience with using liners? What are some of the precautionary steps that I can take to ensure that it won't leak?

I read a little bit about gravity filters and also heard some about bead filters. Can someone quickly give me a few adv and disadvantages to each of these?

For a pond of 1600 gal what kind of total watts would you estimate it would take to keep it running?

Again, any comments or thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Regards,


ayranjim
Koi Lover

Aug 7, 2007, 9:15 PM

Post #6 of 12 (1801 views)
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Re: [kokennin62] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
Hello, safety is very important, for children as well as yourself, a slip , and hit your head on a rock could be BAD! In California there are laws about depth, and the pond must have fencing around it! So check this out!As far as predators, these could be cats, dogs or birds, so the depth gives not only space for the koi to grow, but also makes it harder for a dog, or such to get into the pond. Plus in some places, people STEAL koi, so depth makes it a bit harder to catch the koi.
About concret, I have a company that makes ponds, and we only use concret, one of the reason that concret cracks is because it was not CURED correctly, it must be kept moist during the drying process! But by far concret is the best, the reason that people buy liners are because they are easy to install, Remember there is a reason why swimming pools are made of concret! The differences are the filtration systems and size, but other than that they are the same.
But most important is that you enjoy your koi and learn by reading .


kokennin62
Koi Lover

Aug 8, 2007, 1:48 AM

Post #7 of 12 (1792 views)
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Re: [ayranjim] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
Ayranjim, Thank you once again for your reply the information that you are providing me with is great!

In Reply To
Hello, safety is very important, for children as well as yourself, a slip , and hit your head on a rock could be BAD! In California there are laws about depth, and the pond must have fencing around it! So check this out!


FrownI will definitely look into this. Do you have any suggestions as to where I would find out the laws In hawaii? I tried searching online, but I couldn't find any local ordinances regarding pond construction. I know that there are laws about pool construction, but I found a website that said that those laws don't apply to ponds, because they aren't intended for human use.


As far as predators, these could be cats, dogs or birds, so the depth gives not only space for the koi to grow, but also makes it harder for a dog, or such to get into the pond. Plus in some places, people STEAL koi, so depth makes it a bit harder to catch the koi.

ShockedThis is also a very good point. I will try to make the pond as deep as possible while complying to any laws or regulations that I can find.

About concret, I have a company that makes ponds, and we only use concret, one of the reason that concret cracks is because it was not CURED correctly, it must be kept moist during the drying process! But by far concret is the best, the reason that people buy liners are because they are easy to install, Remember there is a reason why swimming pools are made of concret! The differences are the filtration systems and size, but other than that they are the same.
I see your point regarding concrete. However, if I do use concrete is this still something that I will be able to do myself? Or will I have to find a contractor, and if I do need to find a contractor what does that mean for me in terms of cost. I am also worried about due to the weight of the pond settling could occur and again cause cracks in my pond. I was also told by someone that termites can sometimes eat through liners, and the safest way to go is to use cement and then put the liner on top of that. What are your thoughts on this?

Has anyone else in the forum tried to undertake this type of work without a contractor. My pond is looking like it'll be somewhere around 1600-2000gal.
And does any one else out there have tips on how to prevent leaks in the pond?
Thank you once again for all the help and information! If anyone else has any advice please send it my way Cool

Regards,


kokennin62
Koi Lover

Aug 9, 2007, 2:37 PM

Post #8 of 12 (1738 views)
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Re: [kokennin62] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
I did a little bit more research, and found information about bead filters. To me it seems that the advantages of the bead filters are

easy maintenance
powerful mechanical filtration
above ground installation is fine as long as you have the pump to push it
it seems that some claim that you never have to replace the media

the disadvantages seem to be
expensive...whoa! these guys cost a lot
gravity filters tend to be better for biological filtration depending on your setup

Are these assumptions that I have here basically true? If anyone has had experience with bead filters please post!

For a tank of ~1800gal how many skimmers would I need and how many eduction jets would be advisable.

Again, If anyone has any information or advice for my pond setup, I would greatly appreciate it!

Regards,

Kelsey


Scout
Koi Lover

Aug 10, 2007, 10:49 AM

Post #9 of 12 (1721 views)
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Re: [kokennin62] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
One other thing I would suggest is to put the bottom drains on the opposite end of the pond for better circulation and prevent stagnant area's.
Good Luck!


kokennin62
Koi Lover

Aug 11, 2007, 6:55 AM

Post #10 of 12 (1705 views)
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Re: [Scout] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
Hey Scout thanks for the reply!

One of the reasons why I wanted to put it there, is because I figured with the eduction jets on the opposite wall, it would help circulate from one side to the other. Also I was going to make the right side deeper than the left, hopefully encouraging water to travel from right to left. I'll definitely look at putting one of the bottom drains towards that side of the pond though. Thanks for the input.

Anyone have any opinion on bead filter vs other diy filters

Thanks,


ayranjim
Koi Lover

Aug 13, 2007, 5:12 AM

Post #11 of 12 (1658 views)
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Re: [kokennin62] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
Hello, as far as the permits, try asking a pool contracting company in your area where to you need to check for building permits. As some states require that pools be fenced in, so this agency would be able to tell you if a pond needs the same. Also when building this try to have this pond be asteticaly related to the structure of the house, otherwise a pond can look like it doesnt belong! And this can take away from the value of the house, on the contrary if it looks good and fits the houses style then it is plus to the property value. As far as cracking in the cement, when the the hole is dug, it must be tamped down, in otherwords compacted to prevent SINKING, also they use a metal mesh that is laid into the hole, and this has cement poured on top of it, as this wire mesh is in the middle of the cement thas has been put in the pond, it prevents the cement from seperating, so as you have compacted the soil, and have this wire mesh, it makes it very hard for leaks to appear.


femme_artist51
Koi Lover


Aug 19, 2007, 2:03 AM

Post #12 of 12 (1583 views)
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Re: [ayranjim] Novice! Koi Pond Construction Help Needed~! [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi there,
We put in our own pond. It is alot of work. If I had the money I would go with an expert in pond installation. I dug the pond myself, husband didn't help until the last foot had to be dug. I couldn't get out of the pond. What we did was use some really heavy plastic first, I went to a furniture appliance place. They ship their furniture ex. couch/chairs in this heavy plastic almost like bubble wrap just heavier and less bubbles. The went first right onto the ground. Then we used old carpet. That made for a soft padding. The plastic helped with possible roots from trying to grow up to the liner. We then put in that carpet stuff, made for ponds. I forget what they call it. It is used as an under lining for the liner. Then we put in the 45mil liner. Of course make sure you have your edges level, all the way around and flat. When you have the liner down, you need to sink the edges into the ground, under the dirt. We have a filter in the pond. I wanted a bottom drain but husband didn't want to put a hole in the liner. Oh well, he won out. He is the one that has to clean out the pump when it needs cleaning. We pump our water up and it flows through filter material lots of it. Then of course dumps down into the pond again. Hope you have good luck with your pond. Take care and posts pictures of your accomplishments. Lynda

 
 
 



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