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Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed?

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cookcpu
Koi Lover

Nov 23, 2008, 11:15 AM

Post #1 of 26 (1017 views)
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Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed?	Can't Post

I trying to google on what is the amount of Bacteria House needed for my small pond of estimated 9,900 liter (if included filter volume 11,000 liter) but come out without anything.

Will anyone give me a rough figure on how many kilo of Bacteria House needed to buy for my filter. It is a submersible fitler system. Currently, it have only coral chips inside it but I read that it is not good to have Coral chips for the filter system.

Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.

87ner
New User

Nov 23, 2008, 8:28 PM

Post #2 of 26 (987 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

provided you do use the genuine media the ideal ratio is 10 kilos for every 1000 litres

In Reply To

PH8
Koi Lover

Nov 23, 2008, 10:41 PM

Post #3 of 26 (975 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm not an expert, cookcpu, but I think it depends on many factors. Normally we use bacteria house in a Bakki Shower. When the Bakki Shower is the sole filtration system, then 87ner's figure may be correct as per the Momotaro model, but if you follow the Momotaro model, your system must be semi-open, requiring quite substantial daily water changes.

Some hobbyists follow the Momotaro model, using the Bakki Shower system as their sole filtration system, but many others use it as a supplementary filtration system, ie. in addition to an existing mechanical/biological filter. In which case, you will not need as much as 10kg bacteria house per ton of pond volume.

In your case, cookcpu, you're not using the bacteria house in a Bakki Shower but in a filtration chamber. It can be done, of course, but the degassing, cooling and oxygenation functions are gone if you do not use the media in a Bakki Shower. Still, bacteria house is a highly porous rock and would be very good for cultivating a good biofilm. Bacteria house is pretty expensive though, if you use the original stuff, so it'd be a pity if you cannot use it in a Bakki Shower system. Noise could understandably be one of your problems, though.

What do you have in your other filter chambers? It'd be good to have some mechanical filtration like brushes and mats before the water hits the bacteria house. I can't give you any figure on how many kg of bacteria house you need, but I believe your flowthrough rate would have an effect on the number of kg you need. Hope other experts can help you on that.

Cheers,
Paul

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Nov 23, 2008, 11:55 PM

Post #4 of 26 (961 views)
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Re: [87ner] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thank you, at least I have a figure to follow. I guess I have to ask the shop what type of Bacteria house they are selling.

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Nov 24, 2008, 12:05 AM

Post #5 of 26 (958 views)
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Re: [PH8] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thank you for the information.

The first chamber is the settlement chamber with 3 Jap matts (I added a few small pieces of Jap matt when I find it didn't do a good job) blocking all the debris from going into the 2nd chamber.

The 2nd chamber I add on 6 black brushes, initially it is use as a storage for the pvc pipe.

The main chamber (big one) contain all the coral chips, shell. Later on I added about 100 bio balls in multiple small bags.

The last chamber is the pump chamber. I have hang about 5 bag of bacteria house (each bag contain 6 units) with 2 air stone under it. My 2 UV light is spoil I think after 10 months of operation. Now the pond water has turn green.

I am trying to slowly replace all the coral chip/cockle shell to other filter material example bacteria house, bio ball...etc.

etano
Koi Lover

Nov 24, 2008, 10:46 AM

Post #6 of 26 (934 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

I hope this document is helpful for you (http://www.makc.com/bakki.pdf). And I don't think it is a good idea to put UV lights in the same chamber where you hang the BH. The UV rays will probably kill the bacteria as well. I am also planning a bakki shower for my new pond now, but I am planning to try out crystal bio media from Ogata instead of BH.

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Nov 24, 2008, 11:59 PM

Post #7 of 26 (892 views)
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Re: [etano] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thank you for the link. I can't have a bakki shower as the noise will be a problem at night.

The UV light is place by the filteration company.

Abangk
Koi Lover

Nov 29, 2008, 3:23 AM

Post #8 of 26 (836 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Cookpu..

I am not the expert either.. but I wish to share my experience regarding pond filteration (I prefer to call it water treatment instead) because it is not meant for filtering dabris like aquarium but meant for good bacteria house.

OK.. as what I can conclude from your explanation on what you have put in your filter chambers, it could be better if you change the whole thing as below:

The first chamber is the settlement chamber with 3 Jap matts (I added a few small pieces of Jap matt when I find it didn't do a good job) blocking all the debris from going into the 2nd chamber.

** This settlement chamber should be empty at the bottom for the debris to settle down and place the brushes on the top to block the floating substances from going into the second chamber. Place the UV light within the brushes to kill the floating algae that passing thru if necessary.

The 2nd chamber I add on 6 black brushes, initially it is use as a storage for the pvc pipe.

** This 2nd chamber instead you put in the Jap mats to filter the pass thru debris. Hope the water comes in from the top into this chamber and thru the bottom to the next chamber.

The main chamber (big one) contain all the coral chips, shell. Later on I added about 100 bio balls in multiple small bags.

** Empty this main chamber and place a hard plastic netting 4" above the ground. Place the 2 air stones that you have under this netting. Then put in all the bio balls on this netting to fill up the whole chamber. You may also mix it with kitchen green scrub pads that sold in the supermarket (packed in 5pcs) which is cheaper than bio balls but effective. Do not need to put coral or shell in this chamber. This is the chamber for the good bacteria. The more air bubbles the better for enhancing the oxygen for the good bacteria.

The last chamber is the pump chamber. I have hang about 5 bag of bacteria house (each bag contain 6 units) with 2 air stone under it. My 2 UV light is spoil I think after 10 months of operation. Now the pond water has turn green.

** The last chamber should be the treated clean water and put nothing but the water pump returning the clean water back into the pond. You may hang some corals or shell in this chamber to stablise the water PH.

I am trying to slowly replace all the coral chip/cockle shell to other filter material example bacteria house, bio ball...etcit.

** Its done and you may not need to do this anymore...

The above water treatment is called "Skippy System" that I learn from this forum and I am using it for my pond and its very effective to keep algae free and retain crystal-like water ever since.. If you do not have bottom piping and dry chamber, then you just need to scoop off or use wet vacuum to remove the debris at the bottom of this 1st chamber 6 months once or monthly if you wish... Cool

Best regards
Abangk

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Nov 29, 2008, 11:46 AM

Post #9 of 26 (823 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thank you for the detail explanation. I am really appreciated your help.

I don't think I can shift the UV light to the first chamber as there is pipe on both side that attached to the UV light. I am trying to contact the company that do my filtration but they keep ignoring me even though I wish to buy the UV light from them.

As what you have say, it is better to change all the bio material in the main chamber then slowly do it. Thank you.

(This post was edited by cookcpu on Nov 29, 2008, 11:47 AM)

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Nov 30, 2008, 11:05 AM

Post #10 of 26 (795 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I manage to buy a UV light from a koi farm and it is the open system type of UV. Now I put it in the 1st chamber together with the 6 brushes/3 green matt (lay flat on top the chamber).

2nd chamber I put all green matt compact tightly so that less debris will flow down from the top to bottom to the main chamber.

I leave the main chamber untouch first. I have to figure out how many bio balls/BH/Jap matt filter material to buy.

Hopefully, in one week time, the water turn clear.

(This post was edited by cookcpu on Nov 30, 2008, 11:06 AM)

ikankoiku
Koi Lover

Dec 1, 2008, 12:08 AM

Post #11 of 26 (769 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi cookcpu,

My new pond is on the last stage of completion. Before you decide on buying bio ball,boi house or bio ring and etc, consider using new bio medium called "cystal rock/stone". It is the latest boi media suggested by momotaro. It is very light and plenty of small holes which is perfect for bac housing. I have bought 150kg of bio ring to fit into 1mX1mX5ft chamber but I am changing it to this new media.
Since it has plenty of hollow holes, it tends to float easily. I am planning to put a few bags of bio ring on top of it just to submerge it under the water. You can use it as Bakki media as well. I was informed that it is the best/latest bio media.

Only two koi centres having it at this moment(I think), Koi Division(new koi joint in Tropicana) and Atari. I just bought it this evening fr Koi Division. I strongly suggest you to check it out.

koi@kit
Senior Member

Dec 1, 2008, 10:35 AM

Post #12 of 26 (748 views)
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Re: [ikankoiku] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi IKK..

My new pond is on the last stage of completion. Before you decide on buying bio ball,boi house or bio ring and etc, consider using new bio medium called "cystal rock/stone". It is the latest boi media suggested by momotaro..
i think u mean OGATA koi farm.. Laugh

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Dec 1, 2008, 12:50 PM

Post #13 of 26 (730 views)
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Re: [ikankoiku] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thank you I will check it out at my local fish shop.

When I look at 30 big bags of coral chip/cockle shell to be take out of the main chamber I am kind of hesitating. I guess I really need to prepare all the bio filter material before taking out all those CC bags.

Abangk
Koi Lover

Dec 1, 2008, 6:04 PM

Post #14 of 26 (701 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Can you attach your pond & Filter chambers pictures here for better understanding..

Best regards
Abangk

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Dec 2, 2008, 11:44 AM

Post #15 of 26 (668 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Attachments:

aaa 2008-12-02 10-52-25 - DSC_0302.jpg (73.7 KB)

aaa 2008-12-02 10-53-56 - DSC_0313.jpg (68.8 KB)

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Dec 2, 2008, 11:47 AM

Post #16 of 26 (665 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Here is another 2 more picture.

Attachments:

aaa 2008-12-02 10-53-09 - DSC_0308.jpg (62.5 KB)

aaa 2008-12-02 10-53-11 - DSC_0309.jpg (70.2 KB)

Abangk
Koi Lover

Dec 2, 2008, 11:52 AM

Post #17 of 26 (662 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Lets see the pics..

Wow.. I think your pond is critical.. with the "L" shape and your filter looks a bit small.
Trust me, you need to extend the pump outlet tubing right to the other end to push the water back to the filter compartment. My pond is also "L" sape but not so sharp "L" as yours.

You should immediately try the "Skippy System" as recommended as it is very cheap and effective.

I have never experiance any green water ever since day one as this system works very well for my pond and until today 1.5 years already no algae can be seen on the walls or floor of my pond (perhaps because of tiles).

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on Dec 2, 2008, 12:52 PM)

ikankoiku
Koi Lover

Dec 2, 2008, 12:13 PM

Post #18 of 26 (651 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi koi kit,

sorry bro, u r right. its Ogata. Still virgin on this tinge Blush

Abangk
Koi Lover

Dec 2, 2008, 1:02 PM

Post #19 of 26 (642 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Your pond looks very neat and nice..

At first I thought of putting bioballs too but after getting some advised from Skippy expert from this forum I tried my luck to use the pads and it works... Wink

The pump outlet above was extended right to the other ends to push the dirty water back to this filter... I did not put the small pump as shown above but the air bubbles.

It could be better if I got the bottom drainage but I solved the problem by using wet vaccum to remove the settled debris on the floor.

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on Dec 2, 2008, 1:13 PM)

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Dec 2, 2008, 1:11 PM

Post #20 of 26 (636 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have 3 pump and each pump have 2 outlet at each corner. It goes clockwise pushing water around the pond.

Regarding the skippy system, it is ok if I just use Japanese matt as I think I overbought the amount needed and put 2 airstone below it.

This filter system was working properly until recently it start to turn green. It was design by a filtration company. Regret for putting too much trust in this company as I thought they know what they are doing.

Abangk
Koi Lover

Dec 2, 2008, 5:26 PM

Post #21 of 26 (604 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Questions..

1. Are all the 3 pumps placed in the last chambers? it is the best if the pumps are placed in the last chamber to ensure not recycling the dirty water.

2. Try not to make the water in the pond flow round about. Let it flow one way towards the filter. This way will ensure that the flow will carry the debris into the settlement chamber in total.

3. If your single pump can recycle your pond water twice per hour, then it is sufficient and you shall save on electricity.

4. Skippy systems should be able to clear your pond water in 24 hours if the water flow is correct.

Goodluck.. Wink

Best regards
Abangk

cookcpu
Koi Lover

Dec 2, 2008, 7:21 PM

Post #22 of 26 (594 views)
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Re: [Abangk] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Questions..

1. Are all the 3 pumps placed in the last chambers? it is the best if the pumps are placed in the last chamber to ensure not recycling the dirty water.

Yes, all the 3 pumps placed in the last chambers.

2. Try not to make the water in the pond flow round about. Let it flow one way towards the filter. This way will ensure that the flow will carry the debris into the settlement chamber in total.

I have 4 bottom drain, I hope it help in this. Can't do much about the piping now as it is buried under the concrete.

3. If your single pump can recycle your pond water twice per hour, then it is sufficient and you shall save on electricity.

My 3 pump is 15,000 l/hr, I can only turn off 1 pump (this is connected to one switch) or 2 pump (both pump are connected to this switch)

4. Skippy systems should be able to clear your pond water in 24 hours if the water flow is correct.

Goodluck.. Wink

Thank you for all your help, I am really appreciated your help. This weekend I will try to change all the filter in the main chamber.

Abangk
Koi Lover

Dec 2, 2008, 8:33 PM

Post #23 of 26 (587 views)
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Re: [cookcpu] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Regarding the skippy system, it is ok if I just use Japanese matt as I think I overbought the amount needed and put 2 airstone below it.

Sorry forgot to answer this, Jap mat should be ok but arrange it up right and leave a small gap in between the pieces unlike in the 2nd chamber. Remember air bubbles is very important to grow good bacteria. If possible get the AC/DC pump as precaution. Cool

Best regards
Abangk

vincent5
Koi Lover

Dec 3, 2008, 12:45 PM

Post #24 of 26 (549 views)
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Re: [ikankoiku] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi IKK,
How much does the Ogata Crystal Bio costs? Is it sold in kgs or litres.
Thnks.

ikankoiku
Koi Lover

Dec 3, 2008, 2:16 PM

Post #25 of 26 (533 views)
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Re: [vincent5] Regarding the amount of Bacteria house needed? [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi vincent,

KD sold in litre and Atari sold in Kg. Pls PM me for the price coz I am not sure if I should qoute it here. In Japan, it is sold in litre as the weight is very light.

Cheers

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