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What pump & filter system?

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 14, 2007, 4:55 AM

Post #1 of 25 (2182 views)
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What pump & filter system?	Can't Post

Hi all.

Please go easy on me as I'm a total novice but I have just dug my pond and I'm about to line it but am totally
confused about what pump and filter system to use? My pond is about 8ft long by 4ft wide and 3ft deep. Can I get a
complete unit in 1 that will do everything? by that I mean pump and filter at the same time.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

All the best, matthew

koiguyoz
Member

Apr 14, 2007, 9:49 AM

Post #2 of 25 (2176 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Recommendations:

*External filters are better for maintenance and access. There are many commercial and do it yourself filters to make and buy online.

*Bottom drain - a potential consideration for yourself if its not too late. It goes through the liner at the bottom, or is sat above it near the base of the pond above the liner. It sucks crap into the filter provided the filter is built at the same depth and level as the pond.

*Solids handling pump - best choice for people not wanting to install bottom drains. Sucks in solids to deliver to filter. May churn larger chunks of debris and make it harder to remove at the filter stage.

*All in one units Ive seen are small and expensive, and won't work on a pond your size.

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 14, 2007, 5:29 PM

Post #3 of 25 (2164 views)
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Re: [koiguyoz] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Many thanks for your recommendations.

I think im too late for a drain? Is a drain just needed to drain the pond when cleaning? Blush

I found this pump and filter system on the web. Let me know if it would do to start me off. It's the 5000l model.

Here is the spec for it: Fishmate Gravity Filter / UV Kits
These kits contain a Garvity Filter with UV and the correct size Pump to run them.

Filter / UV

The revolutionary design of Fish Mate UV+Bio Pond Filters combine U.V. clarification and biological filtration to guarantee crystal clear, purified water at a very attractive price.

The full Fish Mate UV+Bio filter has the following features:

Combined U.V. and Biological Filtration for crystal clear, purified water

Clear Water Guarantee (see below)

Includes SUPRA Bio Media

Designed and coloured green to blend with natural surroundings

Gravity Models feature U.V. tubes positioned over the water, thus eliminating problems of scaling, quartz tube replacement and frost damage associated with conventional U.V. clarifiers.

Additional features include:

Flip up lid for easy maintenance

'Frostproof' quartzless U.V. chamber

Medium and Large models feature removable media tray(s)

Pump

These "NEW" synchronous pumps are particularly suited for any combination of filter, waterfall and fountain. Key features include - Anti-clog filter design - Superior wear resistance - Low running costs . They all include fountain sets with four options and 10 metres of cable. They all carry a three year guarantee.
The kits are available in 2 sizes:

GS2500 - for ponds up to 2500 Litres (500 Gals) including a Gravity Filter/UV 8w Compact and fishmate 2000 solids handling pump.

GS 5000 - for ponds up to 5000 Litres (1000 Gals) including a Gravity Filter/UV 16w Compact and fishmate 3000 solids handling pump.

Attachments:

fishmate-gs-kit.jpg (15.5 KB)

smithy
Koi Lover

Apr 15, 2007, 11:44 PM

Post #4 of 25 (2116 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Are u intending to add any fish or koi to this pond at any stage? If you are they will put added pressure on your filters. From all the experience i have gained bigger is always better. I started off with one of those compact filters/Uv lights, however it soon needed replacing for something bigger.

koiguyoz
Member

Apr 16, 2007, 3:09 PM

Post #5 of 25 (2101 views)
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Re: [smithy] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Mattie, I would have to agree with Smithy.

You see, if you do a search on the Fishmate and other various pressurised filter systems (especilly pump fed pressurised filters) you will find a majority of koi owners have had problems with the system, especially in regards to continious maintenance and under performance when called to do so with large koi loads.

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 16, 2007, 9:40 PM

Post #6 of 25 (2083 views)
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Re: [koiguyoz] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I only plan to add my 2 koi and maybe a couple of goldfish at a later stage. My koi are only 4 inch long.

Please guys need to know for definate what pump and filter I will require before wednesday or thursday this week. I dont really want to spend more than �150 ifI can help it.

Thanks for your replies and I will listen and take on board your expert advice

Matthew

smithy
Koi Lover

Apr 16, 2007, 11:37 PM

Post #7 of 25 (2076 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well aslong as you keep stocking low the filter will cope. However i gurantee you that you will end up getting more fish and then you will require a new filter. So that setup will probably be ok for the time being however i can gurantee in time u will be wanting to upgrade it.
A good alternative is DIY drum filters- cheap and effective- chek out koi38's post under the DIY section
I havnt worked out the volume of your pond yet. But u will need a pump that can circulate your whole pond contents between 1-3 hours ideally- The lower the better. Calculate the volume of your pond and compare that against the specs of the fishmate all in one's you have been looking at.
Regards
Andy

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 17, 2007, 5:07 AM

Post #8 of 25 (2070 views)
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Re: [smithy] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks andy for your help and advice.

Please can you tell me if the pump will sit directly in the middle of the pond at the bottom or does it need to be kept up a bit? It's 3ft deep in the middle.

Thanks

Matthew

koiguyoz
Member

Apr 17, 2007, 7:18 PM

Post #9 of 25 (2044 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mattie!

Is this the link to the product you wish to purchase?

http://www.aquatics-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/FISHMATE_GRAVITY_FILTER_UV_KITS.html

I like the fact that the pump is a solids handling filter which will mean that larger debris can be sucked up by the pump into the filter.

I'd prefer you use the larger GS 5000 kit because it will be able to process plenty of waste (twice as much as the GS 2000 kit).

I'd recommend placing the pump at the deepest point of the pond so very little debris will accumalate at the bottom of the pond :).

smithy
Koi Lover

Apr 17, 2007, 11:15 PM

Post #10 of 25 (2033 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

As your not using a bottom drain u need to put the pump at the deepest point which usually is the middle. All the dirt and debris will eventually settle here and as the pump can handle solids these will go through your pump and into your filter system.
I think in the other thread someone had worked out your pond dimensions to give around 2600 litres. Therefore i would definitly recommend you buying the 5000 model as this will state it can handle up to 5000 litres and in effect your filter can almost handle twice the amount of your pond.
As you have said in previous posts you will have to keep your stocking levels relatively low otherwise this type of filter simply wont cope and will need regular maintenace which is a chore.
Hope this all helps

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 2:09 AM

Post #11 of 25 (1943 views)
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Re: [smithy] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes that is the link to the filter. I think I will go for the 5000 model.
Thanks so much for your help and avice wich I take on board with great interest ,
as I'm totally new to this game and getting rappidly addicted, and im already planning
my next and bigger pond next summer.

I have just been reading a litle bit on "new pond syndrome" ?????

Geting worried now about putting my fish in there.

What do I need to do to the water to make it safe for my little fish?

I have filled it up with tap water just now. Do haveto treat it or add anyting to it?

Mattie

koiguyoz
Member

Apr 22, 2007, 12:33 PM

Post #12 of 25 (1933 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

With tap water, you can either:

*Leave the pond water running with the filter for the next two weeks without any fish so you can degas the chlorine; or

* Use a dechlorinating agent.

A combination of both would be good. Ideally also check your nitrite, ammonia and PH before you put any fish into the pond.

Stock the pond gradually so that the positive bacteria can grow gradually at the same time as the fish loads increase. Increasing fish loads in a instant will cause rapid rises in ammonia and nitrite that can potentially kill all occupants.

Like a turtle, be slow and steady when adding your fish into the pond.

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 5:15 PM

Post #13 of 25 (1924 views)
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Re: [koiguyoz] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks koiguyoz.

I have 2 koi and 2 gold fish and are all in a 6ft tank together. They get on fine.
Can I add them all at once to my pond?

can I purchase a testing kit to test for ph, nitrate and ammonia?

could you let me know what is a acceptable reading of the above and maybe let me know
what I could do if the levels are incorrect?

Should I add plants now (before the fish go in) or after?

Thanks,

Matthew

smithy
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 5:34 PM

Post #14 of 25 (1923 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi dont add them all at once- put your 2 goldfish in to begin with, make sure u have had your filter running for a few days. If you were to add them all in at once there wouldnt be enough bacteria to change ammonia to nitrates and then to nitrites, this would result in an ammonia spike which is toxic to fish.
Yes testing kits are readily available- you want your ammonia levels to be 0, nitrates shud also be low as nitrates are changed to nitrites by the same nitrfying bacteria- by adding plants they use nitrates so i would add them fairly soon aswell.
Nitrites build up in the water-theyre arent as toxic as the products mentioned before but thats why you need to do frequent water changes around 10-15% every week or so which removes nitrites.

Also just on another note-when your filter becomes dirty it will need flushing out-do not use a hosepipe with fresh tapwater- as the chlorine in tap water will kill the good bacteria on your filter sponges, if it has a drain valve all you need to do is open it and tip half a bucket of water throuh it to remove the solids trapped in the sponges.
Hope this helps

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 6:06 PM

Post #15 of 25 (1922 views)
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Re: [smithy] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks smithy. What country are you in. Im in the uk. (scotland)

What type of plants do I need to add and where should I locate them? On the bottom of the pond
or on the 2 shelves I dug in which are about a foot deep?

You mention changing the water every couple of weeks? Do I just add tap water back in.

Im a window cleaner to trade and I use the high reach and wash system for cleaning which uses 100% flitrated water.
I purify my water with a reverse osmosis unit which brings my tap tds (total disolved solids) down from 037ppm to 000ppm.

Would that water be suitable for my fish pond. Oh...... I just remembered something. The last stage of the ro system uses a di vessel to polish the water to ooo. Its a resin and could harm the fish?

Cheers

Matthew

smithy
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 6:16 PM

Post #16 of 25 (1919 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

i am also in the Uk- the North east near newcastle.
Im no expert on plants- it was my mam who bought the plants to go in. Water lillys thats the only one i know lol.
If youve built special shelves for them- then use them. I have got my plants on shelves aswell. I would try and keep the bottom of you pond clear for your pump as this will be sucking up all the debris and if theres a plant in the way that will just get clogged up with all the debris- so go for the shelves.
100% filtrated water would be fine to use in a pond-however if it uses chemicals or resins like you say to filter the water it is probably best to stay clear- Just fill your pond with a hose pipe and get the filter and pump running for a few days. This will get rid of the chlorine in the water through evaporation

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 6:23 PM

Post #17 of 25 (1918 views)
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Re: [smithy] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Smithy,

Thanks for your reply.

I have another problem! There is a large tree near my pond and there is a lot of debris floating and stuck on the bottom of the pond. Will a pump get rid of this???

Also, I still dont have a pump or filter Frown

Im so confused by the 100's of different ones on the market. I want the type where the pump sits on the bottom and pumps the water up to a box at the top of the pond which filters the water. Can you recommend one? I was looking at the fish mate one, but im not sure. I really need to order one by this evening!!!! HELP!!!!! What about the hozelock ones?
I dont really want to spend more than �150. And it needs to be low voltage as its my girlfriends fathers house and he's moaning about the electricity it will use.

Cheers

Matthew

smithy
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 6:45 PM

Post #18 of 25 (1917 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just buy a net and you will have to fish out the debris-alternatively drain it and clean it.
As your just starting that fishmate one will do aslong as your stocking isnt high.
Once youve got into the hobby u will find theres a lot of things you would of done differently and then in the future u may build a bigger better pond, e.g. bottom drain skimmer etc.
For beginners the UV/filters are probably better- i believe the hozelock ones are a similar idea- doesnt really matter- chek the wattage of the UV's the more watts the more power-however the more watts the Uv the better and finally make sure u buy as big as you can afford, e.g. dont go for the 2500 one you wer looking at. Make sure that it can handle more than the amount of water you have

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 7:00 PM

Post #19 of 25 (1916 views)
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Re: [smithy] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Smithy.

I want to show you my pond but im too embarresed to post on the forum Blush

Could you let me know your email and i will send a couple of pics. I need some advice on how to finish it off around the edges. Thanks for your help and advice so far.

Cheers

Matthew

smithy
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 7:14 PM

Post #20 of 25 (1915 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Haha no problems
i bet it isnt bad- we all have to start somewhere and from there we just continually adapt and make better
I will advise as best ican

(This post was edited by smithy on Apr 22, 2007, 7:26 PM)

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 7:25 PM

Post #21 of 25 (1913 views)
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Re: [smithy] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

you have mail.

matthew

smithy
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 7:39 PM

Post #22 of 25 (1909 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

(This post was edited by smithy on Apr 22, 2007, 8:22 PM)

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 7:51 PM

Post #23 of 25 (1907 views)
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Re: [smithy] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

No, never got it yet?

Matthew

ayranjim
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 9:39 PM

Post #24 of 25 (1902 views)
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Re: [mattie132] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello, GO SLOW!!! most of us started like you, and we made ALL the mistakes you are about to make, read as much as you can and ask all of us your questions, I started alone in this and have had to learn the hard way in many cases, There are steps to take that will make all this much easier and cheaper, first is FILTRATION= WATER QUALITY, and this means healthy koi. So investigate everything about filtration! And I would say FORGET all those DEALS that do EVERYTHING, they are not what you want! The reason is, EVERY pond is different in many ways, so your filter system should be done for you and your conditions! Once you have a good understanding about HOW filtration works ( bio filtration) for example , then go on to study other parts and aspects.
The filter system is like understanding the principle of the motor in a car, once this is done you can worry about things like the tires or such, same applies to the pond! But without this filter understanding , its like building a car by first choosing the stereo or tires! let me know if I can help more! But also read as much as you can!

mattie132
Koi Lover

Apr 22, 2007, 11:06 PM

Post #25 of 25 (1898 views)
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Re: [ayranjim] What pump & filter system? [In reply to]	Can't Post

you say im about to make misstakes????? Please explain.

If you think that pump and filters won't do please let me know wot will do bearing in mind I dont have a bottm drain.

What other filter system could I use instead?

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