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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System:
Which is more dangerous, high or low pH?

 




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Anonymous
Anonymous

Feb 16, 2000, 4:49 AM

Post #26 of 43 (39914 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi cch,

I think you are right. But I'm worried about adding acid. I think the reason why pH swing the first place was due to adding acid via pH down chemical. Because my pond hardness is very low, the acid reduced the KH further, causing the pH crash.(This is my humble opinion)

What I'm trying to do now is increase the KH by adding baking soda 100g daily. The pH might stay there at 9. One of my indicator is one 6 inches cheap local koi. So far, the koi seem untrouble but very shy. May be she is the only one in there. Tomorrow, I will buy one more cheap koi so that she will not be lonely.

Thanks


Oh Tian Huat
User

Feb 16, 2000, 5:18 AM

Post #27 of 43 (39914 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Alan,

High pH will not kill fish pH crash will and very quickly. Any pH down stuff are potential problem to pond. Acid is worst. pH 9 is OK. Worry about it only when it hit 10. Smile I'm sure that you had a pH crash.

Test your tap water for KH as well. Don't be surprised to see KH of 1 or below Wink If you buy the baking soda idea, go for it, pump it up to 10, it is good for your filter as well. I have done 12 before pH still 8+.

-oh-

(This post was edited by Oh Tian Huat on Mar 2, 2001, 9:00 AM)


Mark
Veteran

Feb 16, 2000, 5:59 AM

Post #28 of 43 (39914 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

No way for b/soda to work in new concrete pond... no way. Alkalinity is already 'sky' high in new concrete pond, adding b/soda worsen the situation.

Go back to basic.


rahim
User

Feb 16, 2000, 6:22 AM

Post #29 of 43 (39914 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I have new pond quite similar. So, I'm monitoring this topic as much as possible.

Wish me luck

Thanks


rahim
User

Feb 16, 2000, 6:27 AM

Post #30 of 43 (39914 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi everyone and especially to Mr. Khoobg,

I've registered 2 minutes and 3 seconds ago. And I posted a reply. To my surprise, I am a senior member. I think some people in this forum might hate my luck.

Beginners luck ha.... wish it will happen to my koi keeping hobby.


cch
User

Feb 16, 2000, 5:39 PM

Post #31 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Alan,

Your pond is about 3.2 tons and by adding 100g of soda, you pump up 1dH. If you happen to add Soda again, just keep us informed on the development.

Cheers


cch
User

Feb 16, 2000, 5:44 PM

Post #32 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Alan,

cch again.

As your pond is just completed on Jan 28, 2000, it is basically still a brand new pond. Either you drain the water and refill again or just let it be, keep some low quality fish, start feeding, continue with some water change from time to time and your pH will lower as time go by.

Cheers


Anonymous
Anonymous

Feb 16, 2000, 7:20 PM

Post #33 of 43 (39916 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

If I no talk this, Mark is to kill me la.

Me pond 500gal built 16 Nov 1999 completed. Alakline pH always very high >10. Very no good and cannot put koi into pond. Ponder builder talk 1 month ready to put fish. Water very green. Put fish, fish died tomorrow monrning 1 month tomorrow. Talk to pond builder one time more and he talk wait 1 more month tomorrow. Now 2 months tomorrow. Before Christmas, Mark ask me to put 50 gal of vinegar and tomorrow wait 1 week. Very smelly and my lover complained "cannot ta'han". 5 days I wait and changesd all the water. Akal for 2days very good at 5.5 yellow color marking on tetra paper. Put 5 koi and is ok today. Added 4 big big one New Year 2000 and also ok tomorrow. pH no problem today. Always 7.0

Mark thank you and hope my talking help you.


Anonymous
Anonymous

Feb 16, 2000, 7:44 PM

Post #34 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi everyone,

Today result: pH 9
KH 4

Add 100g Baking soda,
20 minutes after: pH 9
KH 5

Change 5% water,
30 minutes after: pH 9
KH 5

Tomorrow I will continue adding 100g of baking soda.

Wish me luck
Thanks


cch
User

Feb 16, 2000, 8:08 PM

Post #35 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Alan,

Thank you very much for posting of your pond test result.

By the way, just curious to know how many times you have totally drain the water since the pond was completed on Jan 28, 2000.



Anonymous
Anonymous

Feb 17, 2000, 12:33 AM

Post #36 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

If I'm not mistaken, I've drained the pond around 5 times

Thanks


Bancherd
User

Feb 17, 2000, 6:44 AM

Post #37 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote
Originally posted by Mark Richman:
No way for b/soda to work in new concrete pond... no way. Alkalinity is already 'sky' high in new concrete pond, adding b/soda worsen the situation.

Go back to basic.


Hi Mark:

I guess the keywords here are "new", and things being normal. If the pond is properly leached out, would it be possible for alkalinity to drop to dangerous level? My pond exemplifies this.

1) My pond was leached out using HCl, pumped out a few times.
2) My filter is undersized, it only has the settlement-chamber hooked up, all filter materials are in the settlement-chamber.
3) My pond is overstocked(sorry, newbie problem, could not resist)
4) My pond has severe green water problem(which would consumes carbonates during day time).

Comments?

Bancherd
P.S. Should I move this to a new topic so not to distract the main discussion?


cch
User

Feb 17, 2000, 7:03 AM

Post #38 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bancherd,

Anything that make with cement or concrete will basically require up to 28 days to cure to achieve maximum strength. Along the way, the process contribute to Alkalinity in the water.

In your case, if you are worry about pH crash, place small amount of coral or oyster shell in the filter and these will act as buffer against pH crash.


Doc Conrad
User


Feb 18, 2000, 12:41 PM

Post #39 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

A useful general guideline I developed for our local koi club is to add two pounds of baking soda per 500 gallons of water. I see only 100 gram being added to 600 gallons of water, so you need 10 times more baking soda to reach the total alkalinity levels we find optimum for keeping koi. As mentioned above, this should stabilize pH in the 8.0 to 8.5 range by providing the perfect chemical buffer for the pond.


Mark
Veteran

Feb 18, 2000, 7:32 PM

Post #40 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

In my opinion, now that you don't hv fish in the pond, I would rather concentrate on pH & alkalinity of the water.
Yes, b/soda helps to maintain a contant pH at around 8 ~ 9. But within 3 days, it will shoot up again if the basic is not right for a new pond.
Looking at the present situation, you can keep adding b/soda till the cow comes home but pH remains high.

Go back to basic. I believe Khoobg and Hans H. will be able to help us.


Hans Ham
Deleted

Feb 19, 2000, 12:33 AM

Post #41 of 43 (39912 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello ALAN!

Alan mark is right,
My suggestion to you is.
1)Dump all your water.
2)Fill up.
3)Add Hydrocloric acid (37%).
4)Circulate the water about one week
5)Dump,&rifill,circulate,2days.
6)Dump again.let it dry for about two days.
7)fill up ,circulate one day,check PH.
8)If more as 8.8-9/ suggest rewaterproofet

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A POND WITH 10 PH,UND I BEEN BUILDING PONDS FOR SOME TIMES .

rdgs.Hans


Anonymous
Anonymous

Feb 21, 2000, 10:46 AM

Post #42 of 43 (39915 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Allan,

"The pool pH is about 7 also. I put in some sodium bicarbonate."

Under no circumstances should you use bicarbonate of soda to achieve a better pH .... it is deadly.

Use oyster shell which is widely used in Japan to maintain a good pH.


Anonymous
Anonymous

Feb 21, 2000, 4:45 PM

Post #43 of 43 (39917 views)
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Which is more dangerous, high or low pH? [In reply to] Can't Post

For the period of eight years of keeping koi, I have been using only some oyster shell and coral to buffer against pH swing. With that in my system (small amount), there weren't a single instance that I have to use Soda in the past eight years.

Cheers

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