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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System:
Why call dry/wet if dry is better?

 




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jitwee
User

Sep 25, 2002, 7:19 AM

Post #26 of 49 (38661 views)
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Re: [dttk] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi to everyboby,Smile

After increasing and reducing the height of the bio-ball,i don't find any different. The result is still 50ppm. Ialso play around with the flow rate to my TT,the different isn't that much too. My this set up is water splashing/flow down direct to the bio-ball. I let the system run for 2 days,result is the same,reading did not go downCrazyMadFrown. Infact this system have been running for a month but at this moment i'm playing with the height/number of bio ball.

I then change my set. My 2nd setup is not letting the water to splash or flow direct to the bio ball instead water is evenly distributed and trickle down. Within 1 day the result of the NO3 drop. Till today the reading is below 10ppmSlyLaughWink.

Throught weeks of experiment,i find the main trick of the TT system is to let the water evenly distributed and let it trickle down to the bio ball. The best is to cover as many bio ball as possible. I believe that as water is flow down to the bio ball,it is being mixed with the surrounding air.As it flow further down it is being further broken down to smaller droplets of water. The is why i think that the higher the TT and the more bio ball is better. As for the flow rate, there isn't much impact at my system.
My this present TT is able to handle my tank even it is overcrowded. Please correct my findings if i'm,i'm still learning......Blush

I hope my this small experiment can contribute.BlushBlushBlush


dttk
Veteran

Sep 25, 2002, 9:55 AM

Post #27 of 49 (38652 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Good for you, Jitwee Sly. Btw how large is your tank? The smaller it is, the faster you would see the results. I agree with you that even distribution to cover as many bioballs as possible is important and the water should not flow too fast to form thick columns of water. Instead it should form thin columns so that maximum oxygenation is achieved. Cheers! Smile
Always friendly :)


SMW1
Veteran

Sep 25, 2002, 10:18 AM

Post #28 of 49 (38650 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice one Jitwee, you saved me the time and effort. I was going to do a little experiment with the distance between bio and inlet as I was convinced that it made no difference.

I think that the difference between a true trickle i.e. something silly like 5 gph and what I have at 300 gph will not really matter. However if you decided to go with 2,500 gph I think this will have a big effect and the TT will fail to function correctly. But then I don't suppose anyone has tried this volume so again it's open to the critics.


jitwee
User

Sep 25, 2002, 10:37 AM

Post #29 of 49 (38645 views)
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Re: [dttk] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi dttk,

My tank is about 2 tonne and it is over crowded with 9 koi avg 42cm and 2 koi avg 15cm. Staying in HDB,have no space for big tank.Cool
By the way is it true that most of the koi hobbist uses a hi-blow for their tank/pond. Consider to get a hi blow 40.Presentlt using 2 normal air pump.

Regards,
jitwee


SMW1
Veteran

Sep 25, 2002, 10:55 AM

Post #30 of 49 (38643 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that al koi pond oweners should posses an air pump. Hi Blow are one of the best but there are quite a few cheaper models around. Blagdon do a range of KA40, KA50 or KA65 called Koi air. These are quite cheap but very good.

I have had a KA50 running on a timer for about 2 years now.


SMW1
Veteran

Sep 25, 2002, 11:05 AM

Post #31 of 49 (38641 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, It may have been a good idea to tell you why they are so good.

A few air stones in the pond itself will populate the pond with oxygen, it also gives the koi's something to do. My koi love to play in the bubble now and then, they can also use it to clean themselves.

A few air stones in your filter increases the growth of nitrosomonas, nitrobacter and maybe even heterptroph. Which as we know together remove Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates. Air stones in the filter also discourage the anaerobic bacteria from growing.



jsoon
User

Sep 25, 2002, 6:13 PM

Post #32 of 49 (38632 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jit Wee,

I think you can utilised your air-pump better. You have 2 pumps. You can channel one pump to the filter box. Put some air stones in your filter above the filter matt to provide oxygen for the bacteria. Then maybe, you can consider getting another auxilary pump to provide for the main tank air pump.

Hi-blow pump is very good. I nearly sold off one when Eric told me that the pump can last for many years and later change my mind about it. I am using hi-blow 20 which is the smallest. It consume about 17W.

You have to decide if you really want to go for Hi-blow. Hi-Blow 40 means that it can support up to 40 air-stones, (someone told me). The cost is about S$240 and this powerful giant consumes 37W.

For that air output to the ratio of your tank size, the air-bubble generated can "blur" your water and you may not see your Kois from the top at all not unless you control the air outlet or channel them to different air stones.

For me, instead of buying one more Hi-blow pump, I bought one AC-DC pump and it can switch over to battery mode when the electrical power fails.

Accordingly to the manufacturer, it claim that the pump can provide 8 HOURS of battery life to the pump.

The pump use only 8W and has 2 outlet but personally, I find it just enough to cater for a disaster need. The cost is about S$50 for the pump. The brand is HAILEA.


Think about it....


jitwee
User

Sep 25, 2002, 6:50 PM

Post #33 of 49 (38630 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi jsoon and SMW1,

Thanks for your advises.CoolCoolCool
In this case i think that a hi-blow 20 is more sutible for me considerating it is operated at 17W.


dttk
Veteran

Sep 26, 2002, 5:03 AM

Post #34 of 49 (38622 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jitwee Smile, there you go! Stuart and jsoon have given some excellent info...Wink. I think a Hiblow 20 is sufficiently good for your koi too.Smile
Always friendly :)


johnson lee
Veteran

Sep 26, 2002, 6:25 AM

Post #35 of 49 (38618 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi JItwee

Good to hear of your experiments with the TT!Smile I am a little confused though! You mentioned that your 1st experiments with different height and flowrates did not make much of a difference but then when you switched to a uniform flow of trickle over all the bio-balls it worked wonders for you right? At the end you concluded that height does make a difference but the water must trickle evenly/uniformly. Am I getting you right there?

If so, then you are not at all far from my thoughts!Wink I have mentioned that the height between the bio-balls and the trickle makes a difference. I did not mention that for a TT filter to work well, you need to have very even spread of the trickling water. That's what I have with my TT filter.

I may be wrong, but apart from the even flow, I still believe that height plays a significant difference.


jitwee
User

Sep 27, 2002, 6:49 PM

Post #36 of 49 (38598 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi johnson,

Thanks for remainding meBlush. I did say that the height does make a different. The height i'm referring to is the height of the bio ball.The taller the height of the bio ball colume means that there are a lot of bio ball in the TT system.The short the bio ball colume meaning the amt of bio ball is lesser. So in this case I'm refering to the more the bio ball the better it is.

The large amt of bio ball will further break down the water flowing throught the TT to even smaller droplets. They will also provide even more space for the good buds to grow/stay/hide. As for my second set up,i have increased the amt of bio ball/height of bioball almost to the top.

As for the dist between the trickle to the bio ball, i have yet to try out. Hope to try out the different between them once i'm free...WinkCoolLaugh.At this moment i'm still closely monitoring the reading of the NO3,still trying out the different between heavy feeding and normal feeding....See which of the parameter will affect the most (NH3/NH4,NO2 or NO3).Of this is only for a short period.Cool This will allow me to understand the nitrogen flow even better.

Regards,
jitwee


johnson lee
Veteran

Sep 30, 2002, 5:58 AM

Post #37 of 49 (38586 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello JW

Thanks for the clarification!Smile Yes, it is true that the more bio-balls in a taller container will allow more time for the water to trickle down to the bottom thus allowing more oxidising of the nitrates by the O2 and good bugs!

Look forward to hear about your continued experiments. Pls let us know the results as soon as you have them.

Rgds

Johnson


patrick123
Veteran


Sep 30, 2002, 11:40 AM

Post #38 of 49 (38577 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do anyone know if Hiblow can be used outdoor and explose to rain and shine?

Cheers,
Patrick


johnson lee
Veteran

Sep 30, 2002, 11:51 AM

Post #39 of 49 (38576 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick

Hiblow is best kept indoors and away from the rain and sunshine. Rain may cause the electronic circuit to go haywire and too much heat on the hiblow may also shorten its lifespan. If you need to place outdoors for obvious reasons, place on top of 2 bricks and provide shade for it and try not to get it wet. Just my suggestions.Smile


jitwee
User

Sep 30, 2002, 12:21 PM

Post #40 of 49 (38570 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi patrick,

How are you?Cool
Johson is right about that.I have just bought a Hi-Blow for my tank. There are some warning outside the pump.One of the warning is 'Not to place the pump where it might come contact with liquid'.If you were to place a Hi Blow outside your house,it is good to have shade or shelter above it.Sly
I'm looking for a long air tube but prefer not make of stone.Some thing that produced fine bubble.Does anyone have recommdationCrazy? Thanks.

Regards,
jitwee


patrick123
Veteran


Sep 30, 2002, 12:39 PM

Post #41 of 49 (38563 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jitwee,

Good to hear from you. In Thailand, I can find a kind of air tube that is flexible and black in color. This is probably what you are looking for. Not too expensive. 1 ft flexible tube is round S$10. My problem is that the tube seems to comsume a lot of "air" from the compressor. When I connect the compressor to an air stone, I can see the air pressure is very strong, but when I connect to the black tube, the bubble is very light. I suspect is because I have not soaked the tube in water long enough.

I believe you should be able to find it in Singapore too.

Cheers,
Patrick


jsoon
User

Sep 30, 2002, 5:28 PM

Post #42 of 49 (38559 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jit Wee,

Which Hi-blow did you buy and how much roughly you paid for it ?

If you want a flexible tube, someone bought this black tube about 1" in diameter and it help to produce a lot of bubbles. The tube is connected to a Eheim 1" tube to the pump. The person got it from rainbow.

Patrick, I think the black flexible tube you are refering to is sold in Local Fish Shop (LFS). I got one too and is not very good as what you describe. There is another better one which I mentioned above and I seen it and is much better.

Patrick, I have not come across any air pump that is meant for outdoor. If there is one, I won't be surprise how expensive it will be.

There is some alternative. Either use a venturi with a pump or you built a small housing (like a dog kennel) to house your air pumps etc.


jitwee
User

Oct 1, 2002, 4:00 AM

Post #43 of 49 (38554 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

To patrick,

i have 2 of those inside my tank at the moment. The air pump you are using is not strong enough to drive the flexible air tube.I have this problem too when i'm using the normal air pump.Using a high blow is not a problem.Smile

To jsoon,

I'm a bit K.S, i bought the HB 40.The reason is as time goes by i will increase my stock (sometime just can't control), therefore many O2 is needed. Once and for all,go for the HB 40. I'm paying $200 and the HB 20 is $150(petmart). Some place are selling $250 to $280 for the HB 40......
You are right that the bubble will burr the surface water (using normal also the same) but i only spent some time seeing them swim, so is ok.I would like them to enjoy as much O2 as possibleWinkWinkWink if i can afford.The different betwween the operating cost for the HB 20 and 40 are $2.15 and $4.67 (operating at 24hrs for 31days).Not so bad lah.
I'll go to take a look at the air tube once i'm free....

Cheers
jitwee


patrick123
Veteran


Oct 1, 2002, 6:25 AM

Post #44 of 49 (38547 views)
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Re: [jitwee] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

jitwee,

Just so that I'm not missing something. Since you already have 2 of those black tubes in your tank and they work ok according to your post. Why are you still sourcing for more air tube?

Cheers,
Patrick


jitwee
User

Oct 1, 2002, 10:55 AM

Post #45 of 49 (38540 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Patrick,

I have 6 outlet at my pump. 2 inside my bio chamber, 2 inside my tank and 2 inside my last chamber (where my pump is). Try to put one more to my main tank.

Just a question to all. If i put the air stone at my last chamber,will it supply O2 to my main tank since my pump is at my last chmaber pumping the water to my main tank CrazyCrazy? I do intend to post this question at the 'General discussion' for more answer.SlyCool

Cheers,
jitwee


dttk
Veteran

Oct 1, 2002, 3:17 PM

Post #46 of 49 (38526 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jsoon, my Hiblow 40 is located outdoors. Eventhough it is under the pergola, it does get a fair share of direct sunlight and rain. No problem so far as it is entering it's 2nd year of operation. I think a pump like the Hiblow is safe to be kept outdoors too. Smile
Always friendly :)


jsoon
User

Oct 1, 2002, 5:54 PM

Post #47 of 49 (38517 views)
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Re: [dttk] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dr Tan,

That was a great insight. Thanks


slim
User

Oct 2, 2002, 5:46 AM

Post #48 of 49 (38504 views)
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Re: [jsoon] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

I installed mine outdoor too. However I cover it with a terracotta pot not because of the rain but to prevent it from being stolen as its just next to my fence. Sly It cost me Rm850 for Hiblow 80! BTW mine is located below my pond water level, and I have to make 'n' shape pipe with the top raising 2feet above the water level to prevent water from flowing back into the pump if there is a power failure.


wan
User

Oct 2, 2002, 9:13 AM

Post #49 of 49 (38499 views)
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Re: [slim] Why call dry/wet if dry is better? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Hiblow 40 installed under the timber deck of the Pergola. So far mo problem with the rain or shine.

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