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help trying to build a koi pond!

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StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 3, 2007, 6:27 PM

Post #1 of 29 (2562 views)
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help trying to build a koi pond!	Can't Post

hi there. i started making akoi pond.. am still on digging the pond.. i want a person to email each other and he/she can answer my questions about building a koi pond such as how much will it kost me? its a pond about 4.5 m X 3.2 m and 3ft depth.. will i need any expensive equipment for such a small pond?? many questions more pls email me for helping me! i appreciate ANY help! thanx..

ANDREAS

AEL Limassol for EVER!

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 3, 2007, 11:55 PM

Post #2 of 29 (2542 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1646qj1.jpg

http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1649il8.jpg

AEL Limassol for EVER!

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 5, 2007, 7:43 PM

Post #3 of 29 (2504 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

how much more should i dig??

AEL Limassol for EVER!

(This post was edited by StasisAEL on Jun 5, 2007, 7:46 PM)

dubtaco
Koi Lover

Jun 5, 2007, 10:42 PM

Post #4 of 29 (2486 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

For a koi pond? About 5 - 6 more feet...What is your budget?

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 6, 2007, 12:48 AM

Post #5 of 29 (2478 views)
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Re: [dubtaco] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

no offence but am digging this with just a hoe! its very difficult in such a stiff soil! i think i should make it a 3 feet in depth.. i have found in a local pet shop a water pump with bio filter(with some kind of sponges for filtering) $64 which is neat i believe and is lower than 45w which is great! i also found a product (drug or something like that) which is in dust form and u put it in ur pond once in a while to remove algae and prevent its growth and also green water situations! this is $32 i also found a koi 45cm i dont know what kind it is but it has 2 colours orange and white and its $50, the owner will sell me as much small koi i want 11-15cm long for just $2-4 and i finally found there a device for oxygenazing the water just $14! now i have to find some liner which i dont know how much and what size should be.. any recomendations appreciated.. about any matter...

so for now the list includes:
-------------------------------
liner ???
oxygenazing device $14
bio-filter/water pump < 45w $64
koi big 45cm $50
koi small 11-15cm each $2-4
+
_________________________________

finished pond $143 excluding the liner... Wink

AEL Limassol for EVER!

Abangk
Koi Lover

Jun 6, 2007, 9:35 AM

Post #6 of 29 (2458 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi

You may consider this proposal. The minimum depth should be 3' or more. Cool

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on Jun 6, 2007, 9:38 AM)

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koiguyoz
Member

Jun 6, 2007, 4:54 PM

Post #7 of 29 (2448 views)
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Re: [Abangk] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Although it feels that you have your heart set on a 1 foot deep pond, we as experienced koi keeps recommend the deeper depths for many reasons includig:

*Stable temperatures
*Great volume of water per koi
*More volume for your koi to enjoy swimming around
*Better protection from predator animals

I have clay in my yard and dug the hole by myself with a shovel. The size was around 5 metres long x 90cms deep and around 1.2 metres wide. I'd recommend a shovel with a standing edge (situated neat the handles left and right) so that you can stand on the shovel, rock left and right until the shovel is deep in the ground, push down and lift. I have also one like that in the picture and I found it to be ineffective for digging deep holes efficiently.

The pump and filter combination sounds too small to be of any use on a koi pond that requires a biological filtration to be more powerful than those created for goldfish as Koi create more waste than goldfish. I'd suggest having a look around for a DIY pond filter, with the filter located external of the pond water.

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 6, 2007, 7:52 PM

Post #8 of 29 (2441 views)
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Re: [Abangk] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Abangk this bottom piping what is it? do u have a picture? it leeds water into filter and pump?
do i need 2 filters? because i have found a device which is a bio-filter with sponges and a water pump also! it has a switch so if water flow is too great, use the flow control under the water pump to adjust to the correct setting! so i think this is the best i can dream of with low cost! i hope it will work! its a trio 3000 underwater pump! u can tell me if it will work for my upcoming pond! i will post some pics in a while with the progress of the pond digging.. for now i have dug for 4 hours and that what i got! (i will post in a while) Tongue

thanx for ur replys! Smile

AEL Limassol for EVER!

(This post was edited by StasisAEL on Jun 6, 2007, 7:53 PM)

Abangk
Koi Lover

Jun 7, 2007, 9:53 AM

Post #9 of 29 (2416 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

The bottom piping is to simplify the cleaning process of the pond, all the waste and debris will sliding down into the bottom piping via sloppy flooring and sucked by the water that flow to the pump into the settlement chamber and later you can discharge it to the drain. This is the simplest method but if you have a bigger pond then you may need a dry chamber to use gravity to suck the dirt from the bottom piping.

You can use your portable filter and to my recommendation, it is better if you can make the bottom piping and channel it to a small settlement compartment at the side of your pond let say 2' x 2' x the depth of the pond. Then make an outlet piping from this settlement box somewhere higher at the middle of the pond water level and connect it to your pump filter where you can place it next to the box in the pond itself.

So the pump will suck the top clean part of the water from the settlement box and the settlement box will suck the water thru the bottom piping where the dirt collected via sloppy flooring. So no need to clean the pond floor already... Wink

OK.. the what so called "filter" is not exactly function as a filter!.. it is more to a water treatment system or be more specific is a bio house, the place where you need to grow the good bacteria. As what I learn from the sifus in this forum, the good bacteria needs good oxygen supply to the water for it to grow, this can be enhanced by air pump or waterfall.

This bacteria must be sufficient enough to consumed the ammonia and nitrite in the water of your pond to make the water clean and clear from algae. That is why the recommended filtration size is 30% of your pond.

The sponge, brushes, bioballs or biorings used in the filtration system are not meant for filtering the debris but are the media to grow the bacteria. Cool

Other than that you may need to put some corals in a netting in that settlement box to stabilise the PH of the water.

Please visit to "DIY" section in this forum for more info.

Sifus... please correct me if I am wrong...

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on Jun 7, 2007, 10:40 AM)

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koiguyoz
Member

Jun 7, 2007, 3:33 PM

Post #10 of 29 (2390 views)
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Re: [Abangk] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

The sponge, brushes, bioballs or biorings used in the filtration system are not meant for filtering the debris but are the media to grow the bacteria. Cool

Abangk is pretty much on track. People new to pond keeping are confused over the meaning of the word "filter" when it comes to pond keeping.

Often they believe the filter is used as a "wall" to trap particle matter ONLY, akin to how a car's air filter traps crap.

However when it comes to water filtration, thanks to the wonder of nature we can grow microscopic bacteria that can consume the nitrogenous waste produced from the excretion and respiration of the koi in the water. The bacteria are often known as nitrosomonas and nitrospira, are invisible to the naked eye but are extremely important in keeping the ammonia and nitrites away in the pond. As Abangk pointed out, this is why we have media like bioballs in a separate and often large section of the pond filter buildout. Housing enough media to fish load and the water quality will be good and you won't fall into a green pond syndrome for months or years on end. If you don't have enough media, then expect water quality problems.

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 7, 2007, 9:28 PM

Post #11 of 29 (2376 views)
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Re: [Abangk] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Abangk i need to know what things exactly are high priority on making a nice koi pond.. also i want to know if damn cats can be a threat for my future koi fish, how to form a lip to the pond so the rain water doesnt flow in my pond, and what water should i put in my pond? from the tap? would it be ok for the fish? ph etc? thanx very much for helping guys! Wink

i dont know how to connect the piping system and where but i suppose thats why instructions in the product box exists!! i want to buy a liner first and i dont know where i can find one can u tell me what type of companies sell that stuff?? thanx again! am going to resume digging now! its 4:28 pm here!

AEL Limassol for EVER!

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 8, 2007, 12:17 AM

Post #12 of 29 (2362 views)
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Re: help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

here! i have finished the digging process!!!

max depth 69cm
max length 320cm
max width 190m

am excited! Cool

AEL Limassol for EVER!

(This post was edited by StasisAEL on Jun 8, 2007, 12:31 AM)

koiguyoz
Member

Jun 8, 2007, 2:35 PM

Post #13 of 29 (2340 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Keep digging Cool

.

The greatest priority is filtration.

Threats
Birds such as egrets, herons, owls are a constant threat, along with bears, snakes. Cats are also known to be threats.

Some things used to fend off threats include complete netting of the pond when you're not around (this is by far the most effective method), along with automated water sprayers, auto turn on lights, tightly strung lines across the ponds and much more.

Water
The water used in the initial fill and top up should always be treated with a dechlorinating agent before introducing it to the fish. The PH of the tap water should be around 7.0 (from 6.5 to 8.0) should be fine, and have 0 mg/l of ammonia and nitrites.

Plumbing
There is nothing better than a pond plumbing primer here:

http://www.koiphen.com/members/harveythekoi/plumbing.pdf

Liner
I recommend an EPDM liner. It's basically a synthetic rubber liner and will outlast and stretch better than cheap PVC and vinyl liners. A well known brand are Firestone Pondguards.

You can get them from Landscape suppliers, Pond specialists, koi specialists, water garden centres and the local nursery.

Regards,
Koiguyoz

P.S. SOmeone will give you an answer on the lip :)

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 9, 2007, 5:44 PM

Post #14 of 29 (2304 views)
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Re: [koiguyoz] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

thanx koiguyoz! can u tell me what thing goes first?? Unsure

putting the liner over the pond, put some rocks over the edges so it is loosely holding it, then add water, try to remove wrinkles of the liner as much as i can, and then what?? filtration system and pump? chlorine remover?? what??!!! Crazy

and should i replace the first time used for filling water?? also i want to place plants in my pond.. should i leave them into their pots? won't the soil from the pots blend in to the water and then murky water??? Unsure

i have so many questions so i dont make any mistakes! i dont want to be disappointed!! am so excited about this and i want the pond to be finished!!!!!!!! Laugh

AEL Limassol for EVER!

Abangk
Koi Lover

Jun 10, 2007, 12:50 AM

Post #15 of 29 (2296 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think you should fix all the piping especially the bottom piping before the liner.
o Then the piping to your filter either portable or build-up type. This piping is running below/outside the liner.
o If you are going to build the settlement chamber, do it at this point.
o Make the outlet piping from the settlement chamber to the pump filter. If you were to place the pump in the pond you need to cut a hole on the liner for this but don't cut the hole on the liner yet until you fill up the water to ensure the liner get straighten first.
o Get ready the overflow piping too, but don't cut the liner yet, as above.
o Once all the piping are ready you can lay over the liner. Cut the hole to fix only the bottom drain first.
o Once the bottom drain has been fixed, fill up the water to straighten the wrinkles of the liner until the filter outlet level first.
o Next cut the hole for the filter outlet from settlement chamber and fix it accordingly.
o Continue to fill up the water until the overflow level. Again cut the hole for the overflow piping accordingly.
o Then finally you can arrange the rocks over the edges and trim the balance of the liner.
o Run the pump to clean all the dirt during the fixing process, it should be sucked from the bottom drain into the settlement chamber.
o Once clean, stop the pump and discharge the dirt to the public drain accordingly. If your settlement chamber is lower than the public drain, then you need a small pump to pump it out.
o Fill up the water again and arrange all the plants accordingly. Plants can be place in the clay pot, and dont wory of the small amount of murky water from it.
o Run the pump and filter continuesly for at least 1 day.
o Then pour in some salt (about 10kg) on 2nd day.
o Add in the bacteria growth if necessary on the 3rd day.
o Finally put in your kois and enjoy...

Sifu.. pls correct me if I am wrong... Cool

Best regards
Abangk

koiguyoz
Member

Jun 10, 2007, 9:33 AM

Post #16 of 29 (2290 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree with Abangk!

I will add that you should only introduce small numbers of kois once every few weeks. Initially you should allow up to 16 weeks before introducing the next batch, This is because it can take anywhere from a few days (for a trickle tower) to many weeks or months before the positive bacteria can grow enough in the biological filter to match the waste produced in the pond by the koi and its other inhabitants.

As for the plants, take note that kois love plants and will uproot any plants you plan to put into the pond. It would be better to have the plants in a separate pond up or downstream from the main pond.

You should also consider using a geotextile liner underneath the pond liner to protect the pond liner.

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 10, 2007, 11:04 PM

Post #17 of 29 (2280 views)
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Re: [Abangk] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

abangk what is this settlement tank? do i have to make it? or buy it?? i dont know pls help! i need all the help that is available! appreciate the so far help i get from u guys! tomorrow i will go and buy oxygenation device for making bubles, a pump which works also as a bio-filter, and maybe the liner also which will be 6x5 m!

AEL Limassol for EVER!

Abangk
Koi Lover

Jun 11, 2007, 8:45 AM

Post #18 of 29 (2256 views)
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In Reply To

abangk what is this settlement tank? do i have to make it? or buy it?? i dont know pls help!

Emm.. you should know if you read and look carefully my threat on Jun 7 @9.53am above...

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on Jun 11, 2007, 8:48 AM)

koiguyoz
Member

Jun 11, 2007, 3:41 PM

Post #19 of 29 (2224 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

1. abangk what is this settlement tank? 2. tomorrow i will go and buy oxygenation device for making bubles, 3. a pump which works also as a bio-filter,

1. A settlement tank is like tank that is used to settle out debris from the pond. Usually it is either empty or has brushes or other media to mechanically remove debris at this stage of filtration before proceding to the next stage which would be a biological stage of filtration.

2. It's called an air pump. I hope you bought a reliable high volume air pump.

3. I have a feeling that the biofilter will not be enough for you koi in the time to come, and that you won't be enjoying the work needed to take it out from the pond water.

Abangk
Koi Lover

Jun 11, 2007, 5:33 PM

Post #20 of 29 (2216 views)
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Re: [koiguyoz] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Looking at the dimension given, your pond volume is about 4,000 litres. You should look for at least 5,000-8,000lit/hr pump to recycle the treated water into the pond twice per hour. Once you do it right, you will spent once and enjoy forever... Cool

Best regards
Abangk

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 11, 2007, 6:01 PM

Post #21 of 29 (2212 views)
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Re: [koiguyoz] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

guys thanx for ur help.. ill consider the things u have told me... now i wanna know how i can make that settlement tank and will it need an extra pump since theone i will get would be i suppose in the pond? becaus of its operation o being a bio-filter and a water pump... i really hope this pump would be enough for my pond.. after all it not a big pond as everyone would say! regardless fro the huge effort needed to be dug!

now as for the settlement tank.. which i dont know how to make it and i hope it is on some shop's stock! i understand that i will need a bottom drain so with sloping it will suck the waste from the bottom of the pond and send it into the settlement tank... which there should be accumulate to the bottom of the ST and the pump will take the water from the surface of the ST and send it back to the pond... right?? Unsure

i hope that is the thing..

AEL Limassol for EVER!

StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 11, 2007, 10:30 PM

Post #22 of 29 (2204 views)
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Re: help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

i also would like to know how much money and time this project should cost and take me
with a list! Smile

so i know if that is taking more money and time than it was supposed to! thanx Cool

eg water pump $50
liner $70 etc Crazy

AEL Limassol for EVER!

Abangk
Koi Lover

Jun 12, 2007, 11:04 AM

Post #23 of 29 (2186 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Your annimation is great but, the flow of the debris is not so accurate. Crazy

The debris is the waste from the fishes and perhaps unconsumed fish foods etc. It will settle down and sliding into the bottom drain, then flow slowly into the settlement chamber via gravity and movement of the water by the pump and finally accumulate at the bottom of the settlement chamber. It will not going up to the pump outlet. The pump should pumping the clean and clear water after the settlement process and back to the pond.

Perhaps you may consider this design... no annimation.. Smile

o The sloppy flooring is very useful.

o Make the bottom piping straight to the settlement chamber for better transport of the debris.

o Make the pump outlet from the settlement chamber a bit lower to ensure sufficient water supply to the pump.

o You may hang brushes in the settlement chamber to block any floatings to get sucked buy the pump.

o Don't forget the discharge piping to the public drain. Another option, you can design it where the outlet piping to the pump can be extended with a hose right to the bottom of the settlement chamber to suck the debris and also extend the end outlet of the pump to the pond with another hose diverting it to the public drain for easy cleaning process. Cool

Best regards
Abangk

(This post was edited by Abangk on Jun 12, 2007, 11:30 AM)

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StasisAEL
Koi Lover

Jun 13, 2007, 12:37 PM

Post #24 of 29 (2124 views)
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Re: [Abangk] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

in this drawing a pump appears... now about the other pump ive told u about which works also as a bio-filter.. will it be needed? or i just should buy a straight bio-filter? Unsure

anyone who can give me his/her email/msn to talk live would be even more helpful! Smile

because to get an answer i have to wait approximately one day and with the questions i got it may take a year to complete! Crazy

and any ideas of how to make the settlement tank? maybe with a picture of anyone's from his pond?? pls post!!

AEL Limassol for EVER!

WSC888
Koi Lover

Jun 15, 2007, 12:22 AM

Post #25 of 29 (2073 views)
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Re: [StasisAEL] help trying to build a koi pond! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

Can I suggest that your settlement chamber to be 1 foot shallow than your main pond, just in case of any leak in your settlement chamber, your main pond will not drain off completely. My 2 cents worth only.

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