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Building new pond

 




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SiChang
User

May 15, 2002, 3:36 PM

Post #1 of 105 (98179 views)
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Building new pond Can't Post

I need help to design a new pond for my new house. I have measure the area is 6ft x 27ft with 5ft deep.
1. Should my pond be 6ft x 18ft and the filter to be 6ft x 9ft?
2. How many chambers should I build? And what should be ideally in each of the chamber?
3. How many pumps should I have for this size of pond? I believe it should be in the last chamber.
4. Should I have 2 bottom drains or 3?

Appreciated if someone can help me to design the filter which I really need help of.

I have a pond builder who is charging me for RM20K without any rock mountain. Do you think it is expensive? Any recommendations?


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 15, 2002, 4:17 PM

Post #2 of 105 (98088 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

If he gets the filter right, I think 20K is reasonable. :)



KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 15, 2002, 4:21 PM

Post #3 of 105 (98085 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh and if you'd want another quote for the pond to compare prices, email me for the contact of a koi pond builder. Wink

my email: tanyongkoon@hotmail.com


fortune
User

May 16, 2002, 9:16 AM

Post #4 of 105 (98049 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

For the price of 20k of such size seems to be reasonable. Take Kev's advice and compare first before u make any mistake. I'm quite new here last few weeks but I felt I can offer u some advice. Kevkoi, If any of my advice are wrong please correct me.Laugh

Alright, The most expensive thing for a koi pond is the filter. If for the size u stated, the koi builder promise u a half your pond size filter inclusive of:
1. Hi blow air pump
2. Uv filter
3. Bio filter(The one with at least a 1,200 bio balls)

Then I think the price of 20K is reasonable. Last but not least where are u from? As I know the price for building a pond in Penang is quite expensive as I'm staying in Penang.
Smile

Last advice is, make sure u get a good filter. If you regret later it cost you a lot of money to repair it.

All the best in KOI Hobby!
Kelwin
Best regards,
Kelwin


SMW1
Veteran

May 16, 2002, 9:56 AM

Post #5 of 105 (98047 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi sichang,

Sounds like a nice size pond you will have.

1) I would agree that 6' x 18' is a nice size pond. and 6' x 9' would be an idea filter size for this pond. The volume of water in that size pond would be 15289.8 Litres which is quite a nice size (about 3,800 gals).

2) Ideally you need to have at least 2' x 3' would fit nicely. If you can fit more in then the more the better. I would make each chamber at least 2.5' deep. the first chamber should be your mechaninal chamber consisting of brushes or netting. the 2nd should be your bio chamber, consisting of stinted glass, flo-cor , bio balls or matting. the last chamber should be anothe rbio or chemical chamber consisting of again stinted glass, flo-cor , bio balls or matting with some PH buffering like Oyster shells. Each chamber should have a bottom drain to waste.

3) I assume the filter is going to be gravity fed. which mens you will need room in your last chamber for the pump. This is usually placed in a chamber of its own, but if you can build a shelf into the last chamber for the pump this will be fine. The pump will then feed your waterfall or trickle tower etc. for this volume of water 1 pump will be fine, I would reccomend something like an aquamaster 15000 which is 15000 litres an hour. so you will be turning over the volume of the pond once an hour which is perfect for koi ponds.

4) 2 2" bottom drains or 1 4" bottom drain would be enough. However if you want to put 3 x 2" in or 2 x 4" in, then thats completely up to you. If you bench the base of the pond towrds the bottom drain you shouldn;t have any problems. For the size of your pond I would reccomen 9" of benching to the bottom drain. When I say benching I mean slope toward the drain.

If you search through this forum there are lots of filter designs posted. However if you are still stuck contact me on stuartmwaterman@hotmail and I will help you design your filter.

I can not give you my opinion on the price as I am from the UK and prices vary. all I know is its so much cheaper in malasyia then england Frown.

I hope this information has answered most of your questions

Stuart


SiChang
User

May 16, 2002, 10:37 AM

Post #6 of 105 (98045 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the quick and good advise from all of you.

Kelwin, I am currently live in BU and will move to my new house in Damansara Indah. I have a very small pond in my current house with a total of 10 kois. I started to keep Jap. Kois for a year and a half now. I was from Penang too. I have also visited the Tanjung Bungah Koi farm and the koi farm near Free school. Kois there are much cheaper compare to KL. I was thinking to buy in Penang and bring it back to KL after my new pong is completed.

Stuart,
Point 2, Regarding the depth of the filter (gravity fed), you mentioned 2.5' deep, how would the pond water flow into the filter via bottom drain if it the filter depth is higher than the depth of the pond. I thought the filter is always deeper than the pond? Or only the settlement chamber to build it deeper than the pond? Would you please clarify? I am thinking of building 6 chambers. Please advise how deep is each of the chambers? How deep should the last chamber should be for the pump?

You quoted " Each chamber should have a bottom drain to waste", how do I design this as the bottom drain to waste is always lower than to the drain. i.e. How do I let go the waste from the chambers? I appreciate your valuable advise. Many thanks.


SMW1
Veteran

May 16, 2002, 10:42 AM

Post #7 of 105 (98044 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

The bottom drain works on preasure. as long as the filter water level at top is the same as pond water level at top then you have no probelms.

The bottom drains from the filter will also work the same way. as long as the waster is lower than the surface of the water graviety will always push the water to the lowest part.

Hope this answers your questions. If not I will send you a mail.

Stuart


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 16, 2002, 11:59 AM

Post #8 of 105 (98041 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

No.. your filters DON'T have to be deeper than your pond. U'll need just one chamber to be the same depth or slightly deeper than the bottom of your main pond if your filter is fed thru the bottom drains. The rest of your filter chambers would be between 2 1/2ft to 3ft deep. U may also need a dry sump chamber if your drains are higher than the bottom of your pond for you to completely empty the ponds should the need arise. In any case, if you're intent on designing the filter yourself and have problems, u can email me too. OR, the pond builder I recommended could solve your problems too.

Zen Koi at Tanjong Bungah, I feel have quality koi for good prices. I've quite a few pieces from there as well ('cos my grandparent's place is in Penang and I go there a couple of times a year.). Rinko Koi (Free School Rd), have over inflated prices and fish in bad shape.... besides I think they're more interested in 'Flower Horns' than koi now. Well, as you can see, my kois make the journey from Pg to KL too....

Around the PJ area, UCP Koi Farm carry a lot of kois, and sometimes their prices are really quite good (actually, sometimes they make mistakes..... LOL).

Good luck.


SMW1
Veteran

May 16, 2002, 4:42 PM

Post #9 of 105 (98029 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I'd just like to say at this point although Kev reccomends that one of your chambers needs to be the same depth or deeper than you pond. I do not agree.

I woul dhave one chamber at half the depth of the pond. The reason being that it is not reccomended that you change more than 50% of your water at once. Therefore you would only need a chmaber 50% of the depth of the pond.

If you do need to get all the water out (very rare that will need to do this), then I would suggest moving the pump from the last chamber to pond. this way you ar enot left with a filter chamber which is 6' deep but only 3' wide which would be very difficult to maintain.

Stuart


SiChang
User

May 20, 2002, 5:27 AM

Post #10 of 105 (97997 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the pond builder told me, he always build filter at the same depth as the pond or deeper so that the water is cleaner.

Is that true deeper filter will have a better filteration?


johnson lee
Veteran

May 20, 2002, 6:06 AM

Post #11 of 105 (97993 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi

In my opinion, I do not think that a filter should be as deep as the pond depth. A very deep filter will not make much of a difference to the filtration process, it just makes cleaning your filter chamber much harder.Crazy

However, having said that, I believe a filter chamber should be at least 2 ft deep but no deeper than 3ft.

I think your pond builder wants to make more money by telling you to make a deeper filter!Wink Clean and clear water depends more on the type of filter media used, the arrangement of the media and sufficient good bugs to eat up all the bad bugs.

Just my opinion.

Rgds

Johnson


(This post was edited by johnson lee on May 20, 2002, 6:21 AM)


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 20, 2002, 6:08 AM

Post #12 of 105 (97993 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

BS..... that's all I can say. Imagine maintaining a filter chamber that is 1ft x 2ft x 6ft deep. Anything drop to the bottom, u can just about forget retrieving it. Usually most of the chambers are between 2 1/2ft to 3ft. I have a few chambers as deep as the pond, but that houses the dry sump, and the first chamber of my settlement chamber. The rest of the bio chamber and settlement are 3ft deep. (Couldnt' even go to 3 ft some places because had sewer pipe running thru.;)


SiChang
User

May 21, 2002, 8:05 AM

Post #13 of 105 (97954 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

I have almost talk to 4 pond builders. Each pond builder has their own way of doing his business. Some never listen to what customer wants and request the customer to follow their way of designing especially the filtration design. I do not want to name the builder here but as the more popular of the pond builder is the more boasting they are. I think most of the pond builders are more interested to build koi pond for people who do not know about anything about filtration system, so that they can B.S. you all the way and charge you with a big price tag, I mean a huge price. We are in Malaysia, labour is chaep, sand and cement are cheap as well. So why cost so much to build the pond which is nothing in the pond but only the filter system which also does not cost that much. Pond builder would like to take advantage to those who do not have any knowledge at all so that they can slaughter them and cook them well done. Furthermore, every of the builder always said there are the best but none of them have the similiar way of designing the filter. I am in doubt with all of them. One of the pond builder even said this web site is totally useless and ask me not to follow this web site. I don't think I will bet my money to him. I would think if someone could really help me in designing the filter system which I then will make decision on how to do it with my own way. I do not know who has the same problem as me but I am really upset to those builders who really trying to slaughter me. Again my pond size is 6'x18' and the filter should be at one size of the pond of 6'x9'. Please help as I know all of you here is to share and give the most honest opinion. Thank you.


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 21, 2002, 8:26 AM

Post #14 of 105 (97950 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

BOY, u sound frustrated..... Unsure Hang in there. Wink

I do believe that all the pond builders have their own way of building/designing filters and have their own idea on what they consider successful ponds.

They are also out to make money (they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't!), and in some ways, they build for a small niche market so they don't get jobs all the time and they do need to make that little bit extra. That said however, it's up to you give the job to the contractor that gives you the best price (and not necessarily the cheapest.).

Have a look at their 'resume'. They would be glad to show you some of the ponds they have built and you can judge for yourself if it's any good.

I think HWONG gave us a pretty reasonable quote to go by..... RM1000 to a ton of water. Note however, if your pond is small, it will exceed that above quote simply because the fixed priced items wouldn't vary too much..... plus they have to mobilise the ppl and get all the logistics done.

If possible, u should get the builder to give you at least a sketch of what their filters would be like. If they suggest filling all chambers with coral, I suggest u show him the door. Other wise, I don't see how the basic design of a filter will differ so much. Some contractors feed the filter from the bottom drains (like my pond), some ppl prefer their filters fed from mid water (because the mid water contains less heavy particles and supposedly won't clog up the bio filter if the settlement is not big enough) and the bottom drains go straight to waste.

U basically can get the basics of filtration from this forum and judge to see if the filter designed by the contractor works or not.

good luck... and cheer up.


SMW1
Veteran

May 21, 2002, 9:12 AM

Post #15 of 105 (97944 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Sichang,

If you search for filter or pond design, you will find a vast amount of information you can use to design your own pond.

Two recent examples are :

http://www.koi.com.my/...forum.cgi?post=10428

http://www.koi.com.my/...forum.cgi?post=10599

Stuart


dttk
Veteran

May 21, 2002, 10:04 AM

Post #16 of 105 (97940 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi fellas, what a discussion...Pirate. Let's take it easy on the BS...Crazy.We've heard from kevkoi, stuart, johnson and others already! This discussion would not be complete without my input....Sly. I generally agree with kevkoi. 1) the bottom drains should open into a) a dry sump which should be as deep or slightly deeper or slightly shallower than the deepest part of the pond. This would facilitate easy removal of heavy waste during flushing. And Stuart...maybe you've misunderstood the idea for having a deep sump. It's not only for the purpose of large water change but also for ease of waste removal as mentioned above. A bottom drain with a long up-bend opening into a shallow sump will not function very well in waste removal as alot of water is required for flushing. b) the settlement chamber. Some ponds have this system. c) both the dry sump and settlement chamber. My pond has this system. Hence there is no need of midwater feed. I could flush the bottom drain and settlement chamber at the same time. I feel that midwater feeds are more suitable for very deep ponds, >6ft. 2) depth of bio-filters. Definitely need not be more than 3ft 6in below water surface. Reason, good bugs thrive in shallow water where DO is higher. Maintenance is also easier. 3) Pond builders. In this part of the world, it is not easy to find a pond builder who is widely read, widely travelled and truly knowledgeble. Most of these so-called professional pond-builders were actually ex-contractors who also happen to keep koi. They boast of their years in the business and the effectiveness of their systems. Many are not willing to listen to your opinions or ideas. In this forum, there are many learned people with wide experiences. Ideas are discussed, challenged and debated. Hence, it would not be right to say that this forum is useless. We are the best people to give our honest opinions about the working conditions of our ponds, not the pond builders. 4) Making money. Who wouldn't want to? In this materialistic world, it would be even harder to find a good pond builder who would not take advantage of his talent to make more money. Those who've been to any Medical Specialist centre would know. So, be it good or bad pond builders, they're out to make money. In my case, I burned a big hole in my pocket but I'm now beginning to appreciate the results. Smile
Always friendly :)


johnson lee
Veteran

May 21, 2002, 12:34 PM

Post #17 of 105 (97931 views)
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Hi sichang and the rest

I can sympathise with sichang and understand the frustrations he is going through!Crazy

To be fair, there are a number of honest and good pond builders out there who is willing to listen to your ideas, designs and plans for the pond, filter etc. but I agree with sichang that some pond contractors are only out to make as much money as they can from people with little or no knowledge of pond construction. They also have a one-tracked mind about pond building. If you try and argue with them, they will sneer at you and say "I have built more ponds than you can ever imagine, so who knows better?"

Then they will quote you an astronomical sum and say, "If you want clear water from a hassle-free filtration system etc. then this is the price to pay!" And if you say to them that your budget is say RM5K, then they will give you a dirty look and tell you why are we wasting their time! I had one contractor who quoted me RM28K for a pond that comes complete with zen garden, bonsai plants etc. which has got nothing to do with koi-keeping!

So out of frustration, I decided to read up on pond building from bookstores, internet and then based on my budget and financial constraints came up with a pond that best suited my needs. I got a contractor friend to help me with the pond building. It costs me about RM5K to build the pond with a 4 chamber filtration system. It is very basic, no bottom drains or mid-feed. I am satisfied with what I have done based on the money I had. My kois are happy, I am happy and my pocket is happy!Cool

So my advice to all would be koi-ponders is to read up as much as possible about koi ponds, the nitrogen cycle, filtration systems etc. and you form an idea in your head how you want your pond to be. I am realistic enough to know that since I do not have a bottom drain or back flush in the filters, I have to put in extra work to keep the filters in tip-top condition. That's something I have to accept for the choices I have made.

Once, you can accept that, then work within your budget. Who says that you need RM10K and above to build a pond? Of course, I may offend some connoisseur koi keepers for having an 'incomplete' pond. I guess, ultimately as long as my kois are not 'suffocating' or dying due to diseases, and are growing well, I consider myself to be a responsible owner.

I have learnt a lot from this forum and if any contractor says that this website is nonsense, then pls do not engage his services. So sichang, do not give up hope, I am sure you will be able to build your dream pond soon but be patient. For all you know, you might end up designing your own pond and supervising the contractor on what to do!Cool Kevkoi has written and illustrated some excellent ideas on pond and filter construction and I suggest you study them and perhaps can incorporate some ideas from there. I am sure Kevin wouldn't mind?Laugh

Good luck to you and keep hanging in there!

Rgds

Johnson


SMW1
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 12:22 AM

Post #18 of 105 (97913 views)
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Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all,

I'm still not sure why you would need such a deep sump. I understand that if you wanted to remove the entire volume of water from a chamber into the sump you would need a sump twice as deep, as gravity would cause the water to seek the deepest point. However if you are only going to flush the chambers which is about 20 - 30% of the chamber volume, you could have the sum the same dept as the other chambers.

If you do need to remove all the water from the chamber, why not just have a slide value on the inlets from the pond (i.e. bottom drains), this way you could shut the bottom drains off, but still pump the water back to the pond. The same way you would to flush the bottom drains of the main pond.

I'm still not convinced.

Stuart


SiChang
User

May 22, 2002, 5:16 AM

Post #19 of 105 (97899 views)
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Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

First of all, I would like to thank all of you for your good comments and feedback. KevKoi is very-very kind and he is helping me to design my pond. Thanks.

I do agree that all pond builders out there are to make money but I do think the price they are charging has to be reasonable based on the work and materials they are using. I don't think we (the koi enthusiasts) should give pond builders to take advantage to slaughter us. One of the pond builder has hinted me they are making 80% NETT profit! I have realized that most of the pond builders always think koi keeper has to be a rich man hobby, if you are not rich, forget about this hobby. This is what they are trying to tell me. I even heard one of the contractor said to his partner, "Itu IKAN besar, tangkap dia kuat-kuat' " He is a big FISH, catch it tight" I won't give my money to this kind of contractor. Will you? Out in the market, they are not many who are really reasonable and honest. Even though if you pay them, you have to follow what they said and they never listen to your ideas and inputs. I'm having a tough luck.


johnson lee
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 5:33 AM

Post #20 of 105 (97897 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi sichang

Hang in there and be patient!Smile I am sure you will find a good and honest contractor somehow to help you build your pond.

But all said, it is good if you too have sufficient knowledge about the pond and filters so that you will not be conned by them. Let me say that HWong gave a good guesstimate about pond prices-approx. RM1000 per ton sounds a reasonable price to me! So if you are making a 10 ton pond then expect to pay RM10K for it! We've got to be fair to the pond builders too!Wink

Good luck to you and think positive!

Johnson


dttk
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 5:52 AM

Post #21 of 105 (97895 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Stuart, good morning to you. Okay I know what you mean. In my case, during the half yearly filter cleaning, the standpipes in the mechanical and bio-filters are removed one after another. These 4in drains goes to the dry sump. The mechanical and biological chambers are completely drained of water. These chambers are quite deep, abt 4.5ft eventhough the media only occupies the top 3ft. The opening of the drain goes down another few inches, then elbows and goes to the dry sump. By the time it reaches the dry sump, this opening would be about 5ft deep already. There is a drop of another 6in before the floor of the dry sump is reached. A pump with an automatic trigger is placed here. It starts up when rising water level raises the trigger. Water in the sump is pumped out into the drain. So that's the reason why in my case, the sump has to be as deep as the pond. Hope you understand what I mean. Any comments.....Smile?
Always friendly :)


SMW1
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 9:06 AM

Post #22 of 105 (97884 views)
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Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Dr Tan,

Ok, I see what you mean now. So rather than having the dry sump the same depth as the pond, you just need it at the right depth to be able to gravity feed the chambers. I think this is where all the confusion is. If I am right in saying this, this is the point I was trying to make earlier. I didn't realised that you would actually empty all of the water in the chambers to dry sump. I doubt that I will do it this way, but I see what you mean now and I can imagine that it would be very effective. My personal preference is for a gravity fed sump/waste chamber, control by slide values from each bottom drain of the other chambers where the sump chamber whould be almost the same depth as the other chambers, as I would only ever flush out 20 - 30% of the water from 1 chamber at a time and them pump this or vaccume it to waste. I just don't like the idea of having to get down that 2' x 2' x 6' hole if things went wrong (probably cause I'm quite a big guy (210 lbs) and my shoulders are likeley to get stuck in there Crazy.

Thanks for the explanation Smile.

All,

It seems as though in Malaysia and S'pore most of you guys/girls have your ponds built for you by a contractor. I think this is where the UK varies slightly as I would say 90% of all the UK members in this forum built their ponds themselves.

Is it not easy to get hold or the materials to build you own pond, or do you guys/girls over there just work so hard that you don't get the time Cool?

Stuart


TonyG
User

May 22, 2002, 9:09 AM

Post #23 of 105 (97883 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Errr.... sorry guys, i read this tread with great interest and i learn alot about pond construction myself through this topic..Wink I do not have any pond as i live in a high rise building like most S'porean is, so i can't contribute on this topic.Blush But what interest me is the problem you have with pond contractors and i fully understand all this. I have a friend which also been through all this crab so finally, he went to his kois dealers for help. This kind gentlemen recomend him to a contractor and actually sit together with him and the contractor to design his pond. The last time i heard is that he is very happy with the outcome ( i have yet to see his pond)Tongue

What my point is that i'm sure you have a lot of reputated koi shops that you can trusted on, so why not apprached them for help. I'm they will have contacts and by recommending, they are actually put their stakes on it right?

Just my commentsTongueTongueTongue

Tony


dttk
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 9:52 AM

Post #24 of 105 (97879 views)
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Stuart, yes, you guessed right. Over here, it's the hired pond builder who does the job. Not us. It's not because we're lazy or anything, it's just that most of us(in my case) do not have the time. No problem with getting the materials either. Many are not as adventurous as you people in the UK, US or Australia. Hats off to you people who build your own pond...Wink. Coming back to the drains and chambers, I understand why you prefer your gravity-fed system. But don't you think you'll be able to do a more thorough cleaning job of the mechanical/settlement chamber if it was empty? The same goes for the bio-mats chamber. Once empty, I flush it well with pond water, drain off the debris and fill up again. The mats don't go out of place when you flush because they arranged in the form of cartridges and hold on very well. This is just my experience. Do whatever you think will suit you most...Sly. As for the 2'x2'x6' dry sump, you could make it 3'x3'x6' to suit yourself, isn't it...Tongue? Cheers!
Always friendly :)


SMW1
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 9:59 AM

Post #25 of 105 (97875 views)
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Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

I see your point about the cleaning, and I suppose while I'm in the design / construction phase It couldn't hurt to go deeper with the sump/waste chamber. However, I still have a pond vac if all else fails Sly.


dttk
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 10:09 AM

Post #26 of 105 (48294 views)
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Re: [TonyG] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tony, you're right. The best thing to do is to sit down with a good recommended contractor who would listen to you...Smile. The problem starts when this recommended pond builder charges a sum that is beyond ones budget...Unsure.
Always friendly :)


mattloui
User

May 22, 2002, 11:56 AM

Post #27 of 105 (48292 views)
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Re: [TonyG] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi koi friends,

After reading all the frustrations and opinions, i can't help but to contribute in my simple and humble way.

Well. one thing is for sure, constructing a koi pond definitely costs a lot. I used to know friends who built all their ponds to the tune of RM 20,000++.

Anyway, in my line of work, i used to deal with many contractors in the housing and building construction including plumbers. That day i just sort of check with them and try to gauge their ability in constructing ponds and to my surprise they seem to know all the basics of waterproofing and plumbing and even considered pond construction as chicken-feed as compared to the high-rise buildings. And they sing to the tune of approx. Rm 1k to 2k for a 8X5 pond ( don't know how many tons).

So, the point is whether any of our good friends have actually consulted the building contractors for a quote as you be surprised that they know just as much as those so-called pond construction experts. And the design can be entirely yours as they just construct and not ask unnecessary questions to question your knowledge.

well, just a simple thought.

cheers
CHEERS


patrick123
Veteran


May 22, 2002, 12:59 PM

Post #28 of 105 (48286 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Sichang,

First of all, you are not alone. I have encountered exactly the same problem in Singapore. I wanted to build a pond of 12ftx6x5 (inclusive of filter). With this in mind, I had the help of Kevkoi who came up with the initial design. With the design, I went to 3 separate contractors. To my surprise, the price gap is very huge. The prices are S$6k, S$13k, S$22k. The cheapest one being the main-con who built my house. The other two are claimed very experienced pond builder.

When I talked to them about the design, they have absolutely no interest in hearing what I want. They just keep boasting off how they guarantee that the water will be crystal clear. Later, I found out that one of the actually proposed to use coral chip/sand. Based on my past experience with marine fish keeping, I wouldn't be surprise the water will be crystal clear from day 1 if you dump in tons of coral chip/sand into it. But the problem will come sooner or later.

In the end, I decided to just get my main con to do the work. The only problem is that I have to take 2-3 weeks leave to supervise them. Unsure

So, don't be discouraged. BTW, if they tell you not to listen to this forum, don't even use them since they have no idea what they are talking about.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Patrick


patrick123
Veteran


May 22, 2002, 1:15 PM

Post #29 of 105 (48283 views)
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Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

DTTK,

If I understand correctly, you are using 4in standpipes. In between your half yearly maintenance work, these standpipes are going to be filled with stilled water to the same level as the mechnanical and biological chamber. How do you prevent these pipes from becoming mosquito breeding ground?

Stuart,
In your case, you will be using a slide valves but these slide valves are going to be 4 or 5ft into the dry sump. How do you turn them on/off without having to get in and out of the dry sump?

With deeper chamber, isn't it true that debris has better chance to settle down at the bottom so that you can drain them out?

And isn't it better to build deeper chambers than to chambers that are too shallow after the pond is completed? You can always fill it up with cement later (of course you have to cure your pond again) if it bugs you that much.

Above are my opinions. Please comment.

Cheers,
Patrick


SiChang
User

May 22, 2002, 1:58 PM

Post #30 of 105 (48280 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Johnson - No easy to find a pond builder who is honest and reasonable. One of the pond builder even tell me your pond is too small. We do not build small pond for customer. This is true. Do you think I should put the pond builder name here??? I am very angry.

TonyG - It is a good idea. I have also planned to consult my pond dealer and see what he is going to recommend me.

Mattloui - Would you recommend the contractor for me?

Patrick - Exactly the same problem you are also facing in S'pore. I guess all pond builders out there are just waiting for the BIG FISH to come. They will start telling u that he has just completed a RM100k pond with the bungalow at so and so….etc…etc. They are not interested at all of what you want and what you said. They are just trying to find out how big is the FISH so that they can ask as much as possible. I am not kidding. I got the price range from RM18k to about 40k with the similar design and size. I do not know why the range is so big?

Please recommend me if you think any contractors or pond builders who are sincere and charging reasonable price.


thtan
Novice

May 22, 2002, 3:53 PM

Post #31 of 105 (48274 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

When Kev and I went around looking for a pond builder we knew little about the subject. We went around Sg Buloh and met with some landscape contractors. They really don't know much about filters and koi. Even their display pond was green. All they do is to ask for a design from you and the responsibility is yours. ( Ask for your watch and tell you the time). Many are only interested in the landscape, rockery for which they charge more than the pond, engaging foreign workers. Be weary of such "experts".Angelic

When it comes to aesthetics, I can proudly say Kev has a good sense of that.Wink Simplicity is what he aims. No rockery ( esp imitation stones). He planned for the pond which is effective ensuring clear water and healthy koi, one with minimal maintenance. His mom has to care for the pond not him!

We have had our pond for a year already and wished we had learned more from the forum before we contracted it. We have benefited from your experiences. I am surprised Kev is now able to discuss in this forum such a wide spectrum of koi topics convincingly(?) when we only had the pond for a year.Wink.Certainly should a pond contractor be unaware of this site it refects his ignorance of the subject.

Due to the lack of information contractors are taking advantage of the hobbyist, consider that as a niche market. If more information is circulated, cost compared with specifications,all will benefit. hobbyist and contractors. Specifications and drawings are a must when we ask for a quote. Proton and Merc are both cars but prices differ significantly.Apple to be compared with apple. Unfortunately many hobbyist are unable to design let alone specify their requirements. May end up asking for a quote for " A koi pond 18'x 8'x 5' with apprpriate filtration system". That's where the problem arise.

Interested contractors should be encouraged to promote their expertise in the forum. Pictures of their ponds will an added attraction. A link to pond contractors and suppliers' websites may be useful. Through the forum capable and reasonably priced contractors and suppliers will get more businesses while those who fall by the wayside weeded out.Laugh


HWONG
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 6:52 PM

Post #32 of 105 (48267 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Sichang,

I can confirm that Kevin,s pond design is definitely a good working design and is a "replica" of his own pond. I have seen his pond and it is definitely a marvel with crystal clear water. Considering that he is seldom ever there, it is also very efficient. Eh Kev, who routinely flushes the muck from your pond? So you can safely adopt his design, work out the construction details. Find a reliable building contractor, use the Rm 1,000 per ton price ceiling. Bargain like hell from there. By the time he finish with your project, he will be bl--dy grateful to you for teaching him about proper pond design and overnight he becomes a learned pond builder!

After that your "nightmare" begins! Ammonia too high! Aiyah nitrite!...Nitrate... Green water. how come cannot see no fish.UnsureMadPirate. Then names like Stuart, Dttk, Johnson,Mark is like stuck to you tongue for the next 3to 4 months.

Still want to build your pond ah? WinkLaughSly Relax lah. By the way Sichang I did not check if you had apond B4, if so the last para does not apply lah!


SMW1
Veteran

May 22, 2002, 7:10 PM

Post #33 of 105 (48266 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Stuart,
In your case, you will be using a slide valves but these slide valves are going to be 4 or 5ft into the dry sump. How do you turn them on/off without having to get in and out of the dry sump?



patrick123
Veteran


May 23, 2002, 4:52 AM

Post #34 of 105 (48251 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Stuart,

Is there something missing in your post? CrazyCrazyCrazy

If my memory didn't fail me, I kind of remember someone did that to you once. SlySly

Cheers,
Patrick


dttk
Veteran

May 23, 2002, 5:38 AM

Post #35 of 105 (48245 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick, I'm glad you asked those interesting questions.

1) the 4in standpipes are in place to prevent water from chambers leaking into drains which go to the dry sump. So they are dry all the time. Therfore no mosquito problem.Smile

2) my dry sump has 3 valves, one for each bottom drain. These are about 5ft deep. I operate the valves using a long 4in PVC pipe fitted at the end with an improvised gear made of cut PVC which locks onto the valve. By a twisting action clockwise or anti-clockwise, the valve is opened or closed. The sump is large enough to accomodate me if I need to go in.

3) yes, you're right. The chamber may be 4 ft deep, but the media only occupy the top 3ft of water space. This leaves a one foot deep space below for settlement and water flow. Smile
Always friendly :)


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 23, 2002, 5:42 AM

Post #36 of 105 (48242 views)
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Re: [HWONG] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Who routinely flushes the muck? Errr.... this guy I got from a koi farm nearby comes to do the maintenance. (Side job for him so cheaper.... bypass his boss, so can't mention him online... Wink )

But if anyone needs someone to maintain their pond, drop me an email...... ;)

To be honest, the muck flushing is not very 'routine' either. Major chamber clean-ups occur every 3 months. Vege filter maintenence of plants done by 'Super MOM' whenever she can afford the time.... gee and I think it's almost everyday she'll go cut any dead or dying leaves. (She hates the look of dying/dead leaves! Laugh )

As for ceiling price of RM1000 per ton..... Wow, bargain hard man! REAL HARD. Just make sure they don't end up giving you cheaper material like Class 'O' pvc pipings instead of class 'D', cheaper pumps (some chinese made subersible) which might conk out in a month or so after the guy finishes, or dumps coral as filter media, or use some unknown cheap and thin wood for your filter decking cover. (if posible insist on Resak wood if you're in M'sia or S'pore. Good resistance to fungus and rot. Avoid Chengal for filter decking, it leaches toxins.). If you end up making him an impossible price for him to build with all the right material the contractor will find ways to cut corners..... so be fair.

When the water conditions start to sour, then start screaming for help on the forum again.... LOL

cheers.
kev.


johnson lee
Veteran

May 23, 2002, 5:46 AM

Post #37 of 105 (48239 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi sichang

I am not offended by the contractor's statement that my pond is too small for kois. He hasn't seen the space I have available so I consider his comments to be irrelevant. Tell him we must cut our clothes acording to the cloth!Cool

My pond size is 10' x 6' x 5' and I have about 25 kois living happily in there with sizes ranging from 15-45cm. I do not intend to add anymore kois for now and when they grow bigger and the filter cannot cope, I will transfer some to another pond which I will be building soon in my parent's house. They have a piece of land about 8000 sq ft in size so you can imagine what I have in mind when planning for this new pond!!Wink

The rest have also given their opinions about the current situation about contractors and at the end of the day it is you who will be paying the money, so plan your pond design wisely, choose your contractor wisely and all will be well. Do not be too bitter but take a deep breath and take it easy. Koi-keeping is meant to be a stress reliever not stress giver!!CoolSmile

As suggested, I believe Kevkois's designs have all the necessary ingredients of a good pond so why not use that as your starting point? You might not want to have the vege filter. so dispense with that and so on. Modify, to suit your needs. By the way, what pond size do you have in mind anyway?

Just to give you a hint, since joining the forum, I have learnt a lot about pond building as well. So using all the available knowledge and info, I will design a pond to suit my budget and the space available. I will even go to the extent of buying all the materials myself. The cement, the sand, water proofing sealant etc. etc. from the hardware store and I am getting a contractor who isn't a pond builder by profession to help me build. I do not need his opinion and suggestions, I get them from the forum!Smile His job is to build, I supervise and then I pay for his workmanship. Very importantly, is to have sketches and illustrations to show him as a guide. I do not want to end up arguing with him about wrong design, dimension etc.

Be patient, take a step back, inhale deeply and slowly and you will have a clearer perspective of what you want! I wish you all the best in your pond building endeavours!Smile

Johnson


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 23, 2002, 5:53 AM

Post #38 of 105 (48239 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Patrick, I did tell you about putting the stand pipes in the chambers itself (intead of the dry sump) while doing the design for you but you did insist it would be more convenient to just open one compartment (the dry sump) and pull all the pipes from there.

There's a pretty hefty fine here if the ppl from the health department catch you with mozzies larvae around your house in stagnant water. They've come around my place to check and luckily found nothing... phew. They know exactly where to check and they'd be checking your stand pipes.... WATCH IT! U suggest you go with me on this (and dttk) and put the stand pipes IN the sumps themselves.

As for the bottom drain stand pipe in the design I did for you, u can change it to a ball valve and I can design that neat little contraption dttk is talking about for you to turn that ball valve leaver Wink.....
I have one of those too... he he he. Tongue


patrick123
Veteran


May 23, 2002, 6:08 AM

Post #39 of 105 (48237 views)
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Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

DTTK,

Thanks for your reply. If I understand you correctly, the standpipes are in the mechanical and biological chambers instead of in the dry sump. In the dry sump, you actually have valves to shut off the bottom drains as a double protection.

Isn't it better to have the standpipes in the dry sump instead of in each individual chamber so when you do flushing, you don't have to open the decking cover for all the chambers. Also, isn't it true that to have standpipes in the mechanical and biological chamber is going to take up space and obstruct the brushes and bio-materials?

What about the bottom drain of the main pond, you can't have a standpipe in the main pond right? Shocked So in the case of the main pond, do you just use the valve in the dry sump instead?

Just one more stupid question BlushBlush, since your dry sump is as deep as your main pond, is there anyway to prevent the main pond from being completely drained in the event that the valve fail?

In my design (or should I say Kevkoi's design), I have the standpipes in the dry sump. There will be bottom drain for the mechnical, biological, and main pond (so total 3 standpipes in the dry sump). When I do flushing, I just have to pull out the standpipe for each of the chamber to drain off the water.

In this case, the standpipes are going to be filled with water (to the same water level of the main pond and filter chambers). I actually thought about putting a plastic cover on top of the standpipe to prevent mosquito breeding.

To avoid having the entire pond being drained in case of standpipe failure, I'm thinking of making the dry sump (and all the filter chamber) one foot higher than the main pond so that if my clumsy maid decide to pull out all the pipes, I will still have 1 foot of water left in the pond (no koi meat dinner for the family).Wink

Please provide your comments.

Thanks,
Patrick


patrick123
Veteran


May 23, 2002, 6:19 AM

Post #40 of 105 (48234 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Kevkoi,

Wow...this post is getting pretty hot. I see posting keep coming in..... just finished replying to DTTK's post and immediately found yours.

May be you guys are right. I'm just trying to take a lazy short cut to have the standpipes all in one location since that will make me do more frequent flushing.

I can see there are two problems with this: 1) Mosquito. If I cover the standpipe with a plastic cover, that should take care of the mosquito (i think). 2) Without the double protection of standpipe and valve. Don't have an answer for this yet.

What do you guys think If I have two standpipes instead? One in the chamber and one in dry sump?

Cheers,
Patrick


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 23, 2002, 6:27 AM

Post #41 of 105 (48228 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Redundant isn't it?(about the 2 sandpipes).
One good enough what.... with 2 u'll end up having to open more chambers and move more wood. Maybe that's ur intention.... build some muscles. LOLLaugh


patrick123
Veteran


May 23, 2002, 6:41 AM

Post #42 of 105 (48227 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Kevkoi,

You know how expensive to join a health club in Singapore? This way, I can have my own dumbbells at home. LaughLaughLaugh

But seriously, correct me if I'm wrong. Having 2 standpipes one in chamber and one in dry sump is exactly the same as having 1 standpipe in the chamber and one value in the dry sump.

So by having the latter design in your house, you are already unconsciously building your muscle (or the guy you are paying from the neigbouring koi farm WinkWink) by opening more chambers and moving more wood.

Please let me know if I'm completely off the mark. CrazyCrazyCrazyCrazy. If that is the case, then it must be due to the lack of sleep dreaming about my next pond. Angelic

Cheers,
Patrick


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 23, 2002, 7:00 AM

Post #43 of 105 (48222 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no valve where there is stand pipe and no stand pipe where there is a valve.

The only valves come from bottom drain of main pond. All the rest are stand pipes....

When you pull your stand pipe and replace it, look inside the pipe.... it should be dry.. If it isn't.... It's leaking... so push the stand pipe in harder (not too hard or else u'll end up like me, one stand pipe cannot pull out, had to get contractor back to pull out! LOL!). The KEY is to CHECK stand pipe to make sure they're not leaking b4 closing up the chambers. Oh and if it isn't raining and the floater pump in the dry sump kicks in, one of your stand pipes is loose!! CHECK IT!!

Ure right about the leaving some water behind... I think I have bout 1 foot left too (although it would take hours if not days to empty the huge pond on a small leak.).

Oh, and just to let you in on some operational knowledge... if your pond is full (max capacity) and your filters are running, the water level in the pond will be slightly higher than that of your filter. Water pumped out faseter than it can flow in... that way you get a heavy drag which sucks all the shit from the pond into the filters. Should you have a power cut or shut off your pumps, the water will fill up in the filter chamber (water level in pond drop) and equalise that of the pond. This will cause your stand pipes in the filter chambers to over flow and u'll lose some water into the dry sump. When it rains, the stand pipes in the filter also act as overflow pipes.

cheers.


dttk
Veteran

May 23, 2002, 7:12 AM

Post #44 of 105 (48221 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick, don't worry abt the questions no matter how simple they may be...Smile. Just shoot....Pirate.....and I'll be dead happy to answer them. Standpipes in the sump will as kev mentioned attract some mosquitoes. I only open the decking over the mechanical and bio-chambers once in 6 months.(maybe I should open it during the pond visit in August. Hope you'll be able to join us...Smile ) The decking over the dry sump is opened twice a week to flush the 3 bottom drains. My pond builder has designed the filter in such a way that there is a standpipe chamber for each media chamber. So there is no obstruction to filter media.Smile. Yes, of course I flush the bottom drains by opening the valves in the dry sump. I hope these valves don't burst suddenly as there is no way water in the pond will be retained high enough for the bigger koi to survive. A slow leak can be detected on time and measures can be taken like switching off the automatic pump in the sump and plugging the outlet from sump with an up-bend. That's why it is always better to switch off the pump in the sump and plug the outlet before such a disaster could occur. Kevkoi's design for your pond is great and simple. You just need a wider dry sump & filter for reasons mentioned earlier. Never let your foreign maid have access to the dry sump...Mad.
Always friendly :)


patrick123
Veteran


May 23, 2002, 7:40 AM

Post #45 of 105 (48217 views)
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Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Kevkoi and DTTK,

Thanks for the useful information. These information will be great help to me when I build the pond.

Kevkoi,
I like the idea of using the standpipe as an overflow in the chambers. But come to think of it, I will have a natural overflow system if I have the standpipe in the dry sump too. This reminds me to measure the length of the standpipe properly when I construct the standpipe.

DTTK,
Is it correct that you flush the main pond twice a week and the mechnical and biological chamber twice a year? I think it is a great idea to have standpipe chamber in each media chamber....only if I can afford the space.

So based on what we discussed, I think none of us have double protection. It will be either standpipe for the chamber or valve for the main pond. Actually, we can have standpipe in the dry sump (to replace valve) for the main pond too (another natural overflow for main pond).WinkWink

What do you guys think of the idea of building the dry sump one ft higher than the main pond so that water in main pond will not be completely drained in case of disaster?

Thanks very much,
Patrick


dttk
Veteran

May 23, 2002, 8:11 AM

Post #46 of 105 (48212 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick, yes, the standpipes in the chambers can act as overflow pipes in case of rain. As for protection against faulty valves and standpipes in the dry sump, 1)make sure you have an additional outlet from the sump which is at a higher position. Water level will equalise if the valve burst and your pond will not be empty 2) always switch off the pump in the sump when not in use. 3) make your sump higher than the pond. Smile
Always friendly :)


thtan
Novice

May 23, 2002, 8:20 AM

Post #47 of 105 (48212 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh my god. Where in the world can you get free and instant consultation from a panel of international experts - doctors, IT expert, construction expert, architect and others. Yet the home ministers suspect we are on some adult site or chat room.Cool


SiChang
User

May 23, 2002, 11:12 AM

Post #48 of 105 (48196 views)
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Re: [thtan] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

That's right! I received so many help here and I think I will be very confident to get my pond built very soon. This koi site is really great. Everyone is so helpful. Please keep posting the good advise/suggestions as I am gaining good knowledge.


SMW1
Veteran

May 23, 2002, 11:20 AM

Post #49 of 105 (48193 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Simon,

It may be worth adding your picture you sent me to the members pond sections. This way everyone else can also give you their input.

Thanks


SiChang
User

May 24, 2002, 4:20 PM

Post #50 of 105 (48163 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

How do I attach the digital pic.?


(This post was edited by sichang on May 24, 2002, 4:24 PM)


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 24, 2002, 4:53 PM

Post #51 of 105 (46808 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Go to member's pond section and there's an upload picture function there. U can upload on the thread of your koi pond which I started for you already.


Khoobg
Webmaster


May 24, 2002, 6:14 PM

Post #52 of 105 (46801 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

You can email the file to me and I will post for you


SMW1
Veteran

May 24, 2002, 6:16 PM

Post #53 of 105 (46801 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

You can only attach it in members ponds section.

Click on reply, click on browse (botom left of window). Select the file you want to attach. then click on upload attachment.


SiChang
User

May 24, 2002, 6:25 PM

Post #54 of 105 (46797 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks. I have posted it at the member pond.


SiChang
User

May 28, 2002, 5:01 PM

Post #55 of 105 (46770 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

All,

After searching for a pond builder for about 2-3 weeks, I am getting more ridiculous quotation from builders. I was almost had a heart attack this afternoon. A freelance contractor quoted me of RM70k for the first design that Kevin has put in at the member pond forum (without the stepping stones). Pond builders have really no standard of quoting the price. First question they will normally asked is where is your house? A bungalow or Semi-D. If you don’t mention the location and type of house, they will not talk to you until they know where you live. Then they will ask you what is your budget…etc. I am getting pricing from RM20k to all the way of RM70k for the similar design. I am very dissapointed with all these so called ‘expert’ pond builders. They are CON-MANS. I am still have not met any honest people out there. Please help.

Simon.


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 28, 2002, 5:23 PM

Post #56 of 105 (46768 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm dissapointed... terribly dissapointed. Frown


Lynne USA
User

May 29, 2002, 2:42 AM

Post #57 of 105 (46756 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi sichang,

Most pond builders here in the U.S. are the same way. They want to charge allot of money and don't know anything about koi ponds or filter systems.

I have a friend who is about to spent $10,000 US dollars to have a pond built. This man is cooking her good and she won't listen to me. I have had ponds for 40 years and learn something new every day.

I sure hope you can find a builder that you can trust and will listen to you. Good luck.

Lynne


patrick123
Veteran


May 29, 2002, 5:06 AM

Post #58 of 105 (46747 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Simon,

You should stop asking for more quotes. The more quote you get, the more confused you are.

Since you already have quote for RM20k, which I think is quite reasonable for the size of pond you are getting, why don't you just go with that and make sure you specify all the "scope of work" and the materials they use. I'm sure you are very familiar with this term since your background is Program Manager from Cisco. :)

Also, have you decided what design you are going for? Stepping stone or bridge? I personally don't see the price go up significantly with the stepping stone.

In this part of the world, everything is expensive if you live in a landed property (especially semi-D or bungalow). Even electric bill is higher than people who stay in HDB. You are just "big fish" to a lot of the opportunists out there who are trying to snatch your money. Hang in there.

Cheers,
Patrick


thtan
Novice

May 29, 2002, 6:48 AM

Post #59 of 105 (46741 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Simon,

I agree with Patrick that the price is reasonable and need a quick decision . I know which contractor Kevin is referring to. I have no doubt he can deliver. But beware the variation costs if u don't specify the scope and materials. Then there will be unhappiness later. Be prepared for contingencies approx Rgt 10000 will cover those. including terra cotta vase, pergola etc. It would be good too if you check in the forum specifications and materials, esp pump size. Don't forget it is not only the capital cost, the operating cost can be a killer too. We have had this experience.

We look forward to your visit with your wife to meet our koi. Certainly your home minister has to approve the budget and for long term co-existence with your other love.Wink

Forget the contractor with the 70,000 Rgt quote.He will learn that it is no place for sharks (only kois) as long as there is this forum.

ThtanSly


johnson lee
Veteran

May 29, 2002, 8:17 AM

Post #60 of 105 (46733 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Simon

I agree with the rest. For the size of your pond, RM20K is quite reasonable.Smile As I have suggested to you earlier, make sure you have all the drawings and specs ready and explained thoroughly to your contractor. The more detailed the better! If something goes wrong (I hope not!), you don't want him to say, you didn't mention this or that to him!

Alternatively, ask him approx. how much of cement, sand, bricks, stones etc. etc. that is required and you can actually go and buy them from the hardware shop. Tell your pond builder you will only pay for the workmanship alone. Get a quote from the hardware shop and add up the workmanship cost and the materials cost, if there is not much of a difference, then you might as well get the contractor to do everything but if there is a significant difference, tell him you buy the materials and he builds the pond. I did it this way and save about RM1500.

Good luck!

Rgds

Johnson


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


May 29, 2002, 8:58 AM

Post #61 of 105 (46736 views)
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Not many capable contractors I know would let you do what u just said.... buy the concrete and all. The people who do that are probably not very experienced and again, I wouldn't trust a pond to them. Imagine if they screw it up.... u'll spend more trying to rectify the problem.


SiChang
User

May 29, 2002, 9:28 AM

Post #62 of 105 (46733 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Patrick,

I am not so confident with this contractor as he did not able to tell me how to build the filter before I gave him kevin's filter design. I think he is not so familiar with the koi pond building. Making artificial rock mountain pond is his expertise which I do not like personally. His quotation to me is ok but I am not very confident when I discussed with him as he did not sound good.

There is another Indian man who is doing landscaping also claims he is able to build the pond. He is chraging me for RM6k just for the pond materials, rock and piping. Wood, filter materials, pumps, and all other decorations are from my own. After I spoke to Kevin, I also not so confident with his capability. If I can take time off to monitor his work that probably doable. Oh, well. Not really an easy to do this pond building job.

Today, I will talk to my main con. and see what he can come out with. I have no choice but have to continue to search...


SiChang
User

May 29, 2002, 9:50 AM

Post #63 of 105 (46730 views)
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Re: [thtan] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Mr. Tan,

Thank you for your kind offer to visit your house. My sincere thanks to you and Kevin. Kevin has given me a lot of good advise regarding pond building.

You are certainly right, my home minister (wife) is making so much noise earlier regarding this pond. In her mind, safety is number one as I have 2 young kids. Building a pond with 5' deep can be very dangerous. After she knows I am getting a lot of helps from this forum and heard about all the pros and cons of the pond builder. She indeed asked me to engage a more reliable contrator to build it, don't worry so much about $$ which is a good thing. But on the other hand, the $$$ is my hard earned money. I agreed with her, but I still can't find a contractor who is able to do the job. The contractor who is asking for RM20k is proposing to use corals. In this forum, no one is proposing corals for their filer which worry me. I am really confused and very stressful.


patrick123
Veteran


May 29, 2002, 11:46 AM

Post #64 of 105 (46723 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Poor Simon,

I thought Koi keeping is supposed to be a relaxing hobby. PiratePiratePirate

Don't be surprised there are many "experienced" koi pond builder who will propose coral chips to you. First of all, corals are relatively inexpensive. This way, the contractor's profit is higher. Secondly, corals clear up the water very quickly (if you dump in a lot of it). In this way, the contractor can claim that their job is done and boast to you how clear the water is and collect their money and run quick quick.

Using coral chip is only a short term solution and disease and problem will occur in the long run.

I would suggest since you have the drawing, just get the contractor to do the pond and filter chamber construction for you. Buy your own filter materials. In this way, you don't have to argue with your contractor why you don't want to use coral chips.

Main con is good if they are willing to do the pond for you. In this way, you will not void the warranty of the house and they cannot point fingers to others.

Cheers,
Patrick


DANNY
User

May 29, 2002, 12:00 PM

Post #65 of 105 (46723 views)
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Hi Simon, I feel so sorry knowing about your frustration and hassle. Well, it is true that there are many pond builders out there and some of them are really greedy sharks that are looking for every opportunity to have a bloody bite out of you (or into your pocket!) but I still think there are some good people out there to make some beautiful ponds for people like us. What I am trying to say is: just think about it. Keeping koi is suppose to be a relaxing and peaceful hobby which you can enjoy with your family and make you feel living happier everyday. And yet you have already stress out just by looking for a pond builder. Imagine if you face any problem during the construction of your pond and pond maintenance......so, give yourself some room to relax and think about what you are going to do.....don't rush and don't panic.

Of cause we can't rule out there are people out there trying to get fat by charging us high price to build a simple pond. But some of them might have their reasons to do so, some of them might have unique skills and methods and experiences to build good pond which you and I can't. (We can all describe what we want for a perfect pond but in reality, we can't build it ourselves, right? I know I can't) Some of them must have their special ways which they might not like to share with you unless you have already engaged them to do the work, or they wouldn't have stay long enough to make a living out of pond building, right?

I would like to share with you one story: remember the friend I recommended you to call in KL and to visit his pond? I talked to him but he wouldn't want to recommend his pond builder to me or anyone who would like to build a pond anymore. Why? My friend built his pond about 5 years ago. He engaged this at that time still "green" contractor to build his pond for about RM15-16k for a pond size of 10'x8'x4'. The pond is till nice and my friend is very happy about it till today. Since my friend has his new pond, he started to introduce the contractor to friends and families and to friends' friends. After a while, this contractor started to get famous and start to build bigger ponds for bigger houses after another bigger ponds for bigger houses....you know what happen now? He is so busy now that he will only build a pond for you if you have a bungalow or semi-D lot. And of cause you can image his price of building a pond now....it started from RM10-20k a few years ago to RM 80-100k now (of cause for big pond I meant). Crazy So, do you think my friend will still introduce more friends to him? of cause not. But this contractor has make enough already Lah.....

Luckily, he is not the only pond builder my friend knows, during his 5 years of koi keeping experience my friend made a lot of friends who are also keeping koi and own koi pond and then get to know other contractors.....

Why don't you give him a call and talk to him? Frankly speaking, I didn't look for more than 3 quotations myself when I started to build my pond. I guess I am just being lucky to get a good contractor who charge me a good price for a reasonable pond before I ran out of patience. I can't imagine spending that kind of energy to compare their ideas, method, prices and more designs and so on........too much for me. As long as the price is "reason", I will go for it (your RM 20k proposal sound reasonable.) If they quote you too low, you can't trust them, if they are too high, you can't afford to engage them anyway, Am I right? so why not have a peace of mind and take the one you trust and you believe that is capable of building you a good pond. Don't stress out yourself, and stay relax. Just remember, koi keeping is a relax activity, don't spend to much time and energy on trying to get the best deal you think you can (probably? but not untill you're burn out) and risk loosing all the joy and fun of watching your beloved koi's. Pond is important but it is never the main theme...right? Koi is.

Good luck and be brave,

Danny


patrick123
Veteran


May 29, 2002, 1:39 PM

Post #66 of 105 (46714 views)
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Re: [DANNY] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Simon,

Just imagine, one question you ask and you received 67 replies from all the "kaki" koi friends on this web. This tells you that we are either too free LaughLaughLaugh, or we are all nice people who care a lot about your pond.

So don't forget to invite us to your house for pond visit when it is done.

Cheers and good luck,
Patrick


Chingbee
User

May 29, 2002, 4:16 PM

Post #67 of 105 (46709 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

It is really very difficult to look for a real pond builder, I also have a bad experience Pirate with our pond builder in Boracay. They are a landscaper and knows how to build a pond, but no experience how to make a proper koi pond. Since my hubby let them do all the work - look what happened?!? Mad Now we have to add sooo many things in order for the water to clear out.

So now here at home, my new pond is under going construction and I (only I!!) personally designed the pond, I did a lot of research, ask a lot of questions Sly and finally a sketch! I did call our engineer to draw and calculate the materials to be used. Got a good contractor (we've been using him for all our building projects) He is charging me P 70,000.00 pesos (about $1400.00 US dollar) for the labor. I will buy all the materials needed for the project, including the filter materials, pumps, turbo cleaner, TT etc.

Overall design of the surrounding is a good friend of mine who did part of my garden here at home. Cool


TonyG
User

May 30, 2002, 3:41 AM

Post #68 of 105 (46697 views)
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Re: [Chingbee] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Always good to have someone you can rely on
SmileSmileSmile
Tony


SiChang
User

May 30, 2002, 5:57 AM

Post #69 of 105 (46687 views)
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Re: [DANNY] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Danny,
Thanks for the good advise. I have called up your friend, Cheah and he will pass me the contractors contact by next week.

All,
Some updates, I met up 2 contractors last evening. One is the building contractor and the other one is a artificial rock pond builder. The aritificial rock pond builder honestly told me he has not done this type of pond before but he is willing to learn and providing me the labour job. He has yet to tell me how much is his labour. Is this a good idea? or the building contractor who has totally no experience at all for pond building?


SiChang
User

May 30, 2002, 6:04 AM

Post #70 of 105 (46686 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Patrick,

Koi lovers are very friendly. I called up Danny's friend Cheah, we talked like we know each other for a long time. The feeling is great and everyone here is so helpful as well.

All of you are welcome to check out my pond once its completed. Just hope my pond will turn out nice.


DANNY
User

May 30, 2002, 6:39 AM

Post #71 of 105 (46684 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Simon, It is nice to know that you contacted Cheah and I told you he is a nice person and he will sure tell you what he knows honestly.

Personally, when I decided to build my pond, I only talk to the people that have experience building pond, I wouldn't want to risk giving the job to any contractor that only do building work. Sometime, experience is the value we are paying them for. You want to build a pond, why get someone who is good at building a house? right? No matter how cheap it may sound, the risk is too great and it doesn't justify any saving you think you might have. I feel better if you would use the artificial rock pond builder, at least he has experience building a pond, you see. He should be able to build you a good filteration system, but then you have to communicate with him your ideas and fancy designs.

Talk to Chech, he is truly a responsible koi pond owner. Get the telephone numbers and make some calls. You can make up your mind after this round of inquiry, you have been planned and waited for so long after all.

Good luck and keep us posted of your decision.

Cheers,

Danny


SiChang
User

May 30, 2002, 3:55 PM

Post #72 of 105 (46656 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Kev, I visited your pond today. It is so beautiful. The water is very clear and of course those kois are very nice. I am so jealous that you have such a big pond. I wish I am as lucky as you Smile


patrick123
Veteran


Jun 3, 2002, 2:39 PM

Post #73 of 105 (46626 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Kevin,

It is not fair, how come we don't get to visit your pond?

May be we should organize a visit to your house like the one to Dr. Tan's except that it will be without your presence (since you are in Aust). LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

Cheers,
Patrick


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


Jun 3, 2002, 4:59 PM

Post #74 of 105 (46619 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, my dad just suggested if you all can wait till the end of the year (around late Dec), when both of us are back we could have a 'koi pond walkabout' within Damansara Jaya neighbourhood. I know of at least 3 koi ponds in that area within walking distance.... including Colins pond. (so if you're reading this Colin, is your place available?)

What ya say? Another trip down to PJ?


SiChang
User

Jun 4, 2002, 5:11 AM

Post #75 of 105 (46606 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

This is indeed a very good idea. I do hope my koi pond turn out nice and beautiful. Pls. count me in, I would like to join the 'koi pond walkaround D'sara' in Dec. I can ask my maid to prepare lunch at my place. My maid is a good cook. Smile


johnson lee
Veteran

Jun 4, 2002, 6:05 AM

Post #76 of 105 (46828 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, another koi gathering!Wink I certainly have lots of things to look forward to! Now, the World Cup, next dr tan's koi gathering then the damansara koi walkabout! this is sheer bliss!Smile

So, we will leave it to Kev and his dad to organize this do and all we have to do is to sign up. What say you, guys and gals?SmileWink

Johnson


newgen
User


Jun 4, 2002, 6:05 AM

Post #77 of 105 (46828 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow! That will be perfect!

Can you all count me in too?! really have to prepare some films! then we can take some photo!



Regards,
JohnCool


thtan
Novice

Jun 4, 2002, 6:37 AM

Post #78 of 105 (46827 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Simon,
Certainly your pond will be included in the circuit. Within DJ there are few ponds worth visiting.

Please include a special Indon dish in your lunch menu: "Ikan Masak Merah"!Sly


patrick123
Veteran


Jun 4, 2002, 8:29 AM

Post #79 of 105 (46818 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Sound really good. May be we can arrange another car pool in Dec for the Singaporean.

What about friends from UK? I guess they must be busy with Christmas right?

Cheers,
Patrick


johnson lee
Veteran

Jun 4, 2002, 11:10 AM

Post #80 of 105 (46810 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick

If all goes well, we intend to hold the koi gathering annually but at a different house!Smile Stuart from UK, has taken on my challenge to be thrifty and would want to be here for next year's koi gathering!

It would be good if you guys from S'pore will be able to join us as well.

JohnsonSmileCool


patrick123
Veteran


Jun 4, 2002, 11:38 AM

Post #81 of 105 (46809 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Johnson,

Annual gathering sounds fantastic. This way we can see each other's face and exchange more ideas. I'll love to join. Angelic

Cheers,
Patrick


newgen
User


Jun 4, 2002, 12:03 PM

Post #82 of 105 (46807 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

LOL! this is getting more fun! Fantastic!

CoolAngelicLaughSlyBlushWinkSmile

But i don't have a pond yet!Tongue

i think 10 more years lah! LOL



Regards,
John


patrick123
Veteran


Jun 4, 2002, 12:55 PM

Post #83 of 105 (46804 views)
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Re: [newgen] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Who say it has to be pond visit? May be we can arrange for an aquarium visit specially for you. LaughLaugh

Cheers,
Patrick


bendict
User

Jun 5, 2002, 6:43 AM

Post #84 of 105 (46790 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Kev..

Cool.. sound great to have a pond visit and koi's kaki gathering.... Could i join as well?? That would be my first experience to have a pond visit others people's pond...Tongue

Unfortunely my pond wasn't in KL.... maybe when u in Muar then i can bring you around Wink...

Ben


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


Jun 5, 2002, 6:58 AM

Post #85 of 105 (46787 views)
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Re: [bendict] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll most definately be in Muar if my friend is back from the States at the end of the year. Sure we could go koi-looking in Muar and U and Tat can go remember old times.... LaughLaughLaugh. (Small world.... turns out that a good friend of mine is also Ben's friend!)


bendict
User

Jun 6, 2002, 2:36 AM

Post #86 of 105 (46760 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Kev,

Cool.... yup. the world is small...... Hopefully he can still remember who am i Wink, we never see each other for about 12 ~13 years liau.... hahhaaaTongue

Looking forward to see you in Muar.... and mind see u in sydney during this winter too.... if i have extra time when i back from Perth then i might drop by sydney to meet up few of my old friends.... Laugh

Take care..

Ben


newgen
User


Jun 6, 2002, 12:20 PM

Post #87 of 105 (46744 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

You're a big time joker Patrick! Thanks!


Coz you really cheer me up!


Regards,
JohnAngelic


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


Jun 6, 2002, 4:52 PM

Post #88 of 105 (46734 views)
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Re: [newgen] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I have 2 aquariums too John, so you won't be left out. Wink. Got one for my goldfishes and one small planted tank for tropicals (basically tetras).

Cool


patrick123
Veteran


Jun 10, 2002, 9:22 AM

Post #89 of 105 (46702 views)
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Re: [newgen] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

John (newgen),

I'm glad you catch the joke...not everyone does and sometime people take offensive of my joke. UnsureUnsure

The point is, it doesn't matter whether you are rich or poor, have a giant pond or a small aquarium, no one can deprive you from your favorite hobby. I have an aquarium in my Thailand service apartment and I'm keeping two med size koi. In my Singapore home, I only have a 5ft FG tank and I have 9 koi. In the process of planning to build a pond. Still working out the final details with Kevkoi who is my main consultant. SmileSmileSmile

Cheers,
Patrick


newgen
User


Jun 11, 2002, 6:12 AM

Post #90 of 105 (46688 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

TongueBlushSmileWinkLaughAngelicSlyLOL!

Be cool buddy!Cool


johnson lee
Veteran

Jun 11, 2002, 7:10 AM

Post #91 of 105 (46689 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Best wishes for your new pond, Patrick! And be sure to post some pics once it is completed!Smile

So, I hope to see you at the koi gathering in August?

JohnsonSmile


patrick123
Veteran


Jun 13, 2002, 2:53 PM

Post #92 of 105 (46658 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Johnson,

I will certainly post the pictures when my pond is ready. This is a forum not only for all of us to share our problems but also to share our joy about our loving koi/pond right?

Unfortunately, I will not be able to make it in Aug. I'm looking forward to go in Dec though. Smile

Best Regards,
Patrick


dttk
Veteran

Jun 14, 2002, 5:42 AM

Post #93 of 105 (46648 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't worry Patrick, you could also visit my pond in December because it's also in the Damansara SS20 area....Smile.
Always friendly :)


patrick123
Veteran


Jun 14, 2002, 6:04 AM

Post #94 of 105 (46645 views)
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Re: [dttk] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Dr Tan, you are so kind. SmileSmile

Lets see what is the schedule Johnson, Kevkoi and Simon come up with. Smile

Best Regards,
Patrick


johnson lee
Veteran

Jun 14, 2002, 6:19 AM

Post #95 of 105 (46644 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Patrick

Looking forward to see the pics soon!Smile

It's a shame you can't make it in Aug but I look forward to meeting up with you in Dec then!

Rgds

JohnsonCool


SiChang
User

Jun 17, 2002, 5:32 AM

Post #96 of 105 (46618 views)
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Re: Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

All, finally my new pond building will start today. I have been looking for at least more than a month to look for pond builder and I can't find one to suit my budget and the filter design I need. They are either charge me too expensive or do not want to follow our filtration system. Therefore, I decided to use building contractor to build my pond. I specified of what I need and they will build for me. The only problem is... I have to take days off to instruct them on what and how to do? Again, I would like to thank to the members who has given me a lot of feedbacks and good advise regarding pond building.

I have one more question? Does anyone know where to get the MULSIFIX component to use it with my concrete pond? I was told by a koi shop owner that MULSIFIX will ensure leak prrof. Thanks.


wan
User

Jun 17, 2002, 11:19 AM

Post #97 of 105 (46610 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Are u building a pond in Damansara Indah ? I would sure like to see what u have done. (Hope I am not imposing) Thanks


johnson lee
Veteran

Jun 18, 2002, 6:38 AM

Post #98 of 105 (46590 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi

Good luck to you!Cool How much is this contractor charging you? RM20K?

Anyway, I have not heard of Mulsifix but you can purchase any good quality pond sealant from hardware shops. G4 is one of them.

Send us pics of your completed pond, OK?

JohnsonCoolSmile


SiChang
User

Jun 18, 2002, 6:58 AM

Post #99 of 105 (46587 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Johnson,

Mulsifix is a product Made in England, I think. I was told this is a very good sealer and they will ensure no leakage and it is very expensive.

Anyone know where to get this please let me know.

I will keep posting my pond building progress. Work has began yesterday. By end of the week, I should have my pond digged.


SMW1
Veteran

Jun 18, 2002, 10:06 AM

Post #100 of 105 (46575 views)
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Re: [sichang] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I would not reccommend Mulsifix. This is used to repair concrete.

Its very rarely used in the pond industry in the UK, I would suggest using G4 as Johnson suggests. This is designed for water features and ponds.

Although, Mulsifix is very long lasting, there is no way of telling what effect it can have on your koi. Mulsifix is a resign based material which may be highly toxic.

I think this Mulsifix product need some deep investigation before using it with ponds.


johnson lee
Veteran

Jun 19, 2002, 7:00 AM

Post #101 of 105 (35482 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Building new pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Stuart

Thanks for letting us know that Mulsifix may not be suitable for ponds. Has anyone ever used this? PLs share your experience. Thanks.

JohnsonSmile


lingaz
New User

Aug 19, 2005, 8:07 AM

Post #102 of 105 (31827 views)
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pond liner [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,


I recently used a new method of building pond using liner.It seems to be working well .The actual dimension of the pond is about 17' X 17 ' X 5' .I've attached the picture of construction and it's absolutely DIY.Please feel free to email me for any question lingaz@gmail.com. I can't attach the file here bcause it's too big in memory.As for the filter , I've used vortex filter.So, email me if you would like to see how pond liner looks!!Wink


(This post was edited by lingaz on Aug 19, 2005, 8:23 AM)


cckeong
Novice

Oct 7, 2005, 10:50 AM

Post #103 of 105 (31510 views)
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Re: [lingaz] pond liner [In reply to] Can't Post

I have an old concret cement septic 4'x15' depth 4 feet,5 year never use & it sustain by water 1 feet few month old.
I want convert to Koi pond,any suggestion?

1.I have a Waterco BOMB sand type filter(quite Big),last time I actually wanna for SPA but didn't use it,it has Backwash function.
2.I have a Waterco 1.5HP pool pump,it actually can for whole swimming pool 30'x40'.
3.I have experience with my exiting 3'x3' fiberglass koi pond,I use small submerge pump & this waterco sand filter without problem but most of the time if I outstation a week,some fish must dead or all dead.
4.The Johor area pipe water are dirty,possible to use rain water after filter?

My question is I wanna fully ultilise my equipment,how to make this happen?


cckeong
Novice

Oct 7, 2005, 10:50 AM

Post #104 of 105 (31510 views)
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Re: [lingaz] pond liner [In reply to] Can't Post

I have an old concret cement septic 4'x15' depth 4 feet,5 year never use & it sustain by water 1 feet few month old.
I want convert to Koi pond,any suggestion?

1.I have a Waterco BOMB sand type filter(quite Big),last time I actually wanna for SPA but didn't use it,it has Backwash function.
2.I have a Waterco 1.5HP pool pump,it actually can for whole swimming pool 30'x40'.
3.I have experience with my exiting 3'x3' fiberglass koi pond,I use small submerge pump & this waterco sand filter without problem but most of the time if I outstation a week,some fish must dead or all dead.
4.The Johor area pipe water are dirty,possible to use rain water after filter?

My question is I wanna fully ultilise my equipment,how to make this happen?


koiguyoz
Koi Kichi


Oct 8, 2005, 5:36 PM

Post #105 of 105 (31485 views)
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Re: [cckeong] pond liner [In reply to] Can't Post

Lingaz,

You'd get a better response if you post a brand new message for yourself instead of adding onto this message.

 
 



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