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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Construction & Water Filtering System:
New pond plan for feedback

 






 


Lauts
Koi Lover

Jun 3, 2004, 3:26 PM

Post #1 of 22 (3016 views)
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New pond plan for feedback Can't Post

Hi all ,

Will be forwarding attached plan to the contractor this week hopefully . So urgent feedback required . The contractor has done a few pond but not a specialist . Will be using one FOK pump which I find seldom utilised here. Pond will be around 40 tonne ex filter. Pls help by scrutinising on the filter design . Hope Kevin , Dttk and all the koi kichi could give some comments . Design was adapted from Dttk 's pond and website info.

Regards
Lau
Attachments: Pond Construct.xls (65.5 KB)


dttk
Senior Member

Jun 3, 2004, 8:50 PM

Post #2 of 22 (2988 views)
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Re: [Lauts] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Lau, will study your plans and comment tomorrow Smile. goodnite!
Always friendly :)


HWONG
Koi Addict

Jun 4, 2004, 1:52 AM

Post #3 of 22 (2977 views)
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Re: [Lauts] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Lau, congratulations. U are finally doing it. These are my opinion and thats is what I have in mind for my pond extension.
Pipes-
  1. Bottom drains 6" is better so that velocity of water is lower. Shit doesnt get stirred up and esaier to settle.
  2. Filter chambers bottom drains shud go individually to sump so that U can drain chambers individually.
  3. All bottom drains shud be centered in the chambers for even pull.

Pond - Finishing / capping dont have any sharp edges like pebble wash at the water level

Filter-
  1. 5 feet for mech chamber is probably ok but other chambers just 2.5 feet will do. that depth is from start of bench to water level. This will save you plenty of water when U need to drain out your chambers.
  2. your slope to bottom drain is too shallow. the shit will be sitting all around and it wont get sucked out to sump. Shud get 60 degree benching and line surface with epoxy. ( I am having this problem and I need to vacuum or waste water by emptying the chamber.)
  3. L shape pipes is good but have a joint at the bottom so that U can pull out the pipe and continue to run your filter when the water level is low. ( I have to wait for hours B4 I can run the pump bcos water level too low!)
  4. I wud recommend having Bypass L shape pipes from pond to individual chamber . You can still run your pump when you need empty the preceeding chambers for whatever purposes.


Hope this is helpful. your drawings came at an opportune time as I am planning to extend my pond from 16 to 28 feet.


Lauts
Koi Lover

Jun 4, 2004, 9:57 AM

Post #4 of 22 (2953 views)
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Re: [HWONG] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Hwong ,

Will incorporate your feedback into my plans. On the filter bio chamber I think 2.5ft is too shallow. I intend to use Jap mat which comes 3x6 approx. maybe 3.5ft is better. 3ft for Mat , 0.5ft for water flow from L pipes. Like your idea on by pass from pond to each filter , rather than pull pipes better to use valves ?

Do you think one Tsurumi is powerful enough for 3 waterfall at 3ft and as bottom push ? Or maybe the FOK is sufficient to act as bottom push.

Thanks.

BTW. Can you ask Yang for his contact / mail . Would like to visit his pond again. Deciding between a semi raised pond or ground level like yours.

Regards
Lau


dttk
Senior Member

Jun 4, 2004, 12:38 PM

Post #5 of 22 (2939 views)
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Re: [Lauts] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Lau Smile, good morning. Looks like HWong got to you before I did WinkSly. Good, more feedback more ideas. I like some of his suggestions too.
Here goes,
1) Bottom drains. I agree with HWong that the 3 main bottom drain pipes should be 6in since you have a large pond. I see that your bottom drains open only to the settlement chamber and from there, there's only one floor drain to the sump. There may not be sufficient pressure to drain the 3 bottom drains efficiently. I feel that each 6in drain should go directly to the sump and to the settlement via a T-joint. What sort of bottom drain cover are you using?
2) L-bends. Your idea of having L-bends connecting the chambers is good as it saves space. This makes it necessary for you to have the standpipe in each chamber. This is fine in the brushes chamber since you'll have to take them out for proper cleaning anyway but in the mats chamber, you'll have problems reattaching the standpipe after flushing the mats, unless you have standing room in the chamber or if you intend to remove each piece of mat for spraying which is done by some members. Let me know which method you prefer Smile. Hwong's idea of having a removable joint at the bottom for filter to continue running at low water levels is good.
3) Surface skimmers. Better to have 4 of these. 2 in the position opposite the falls and 2 more at the opposite wall between the 3 waterfalls. Have 2 venturi at the corner, directed at the opposite skimmers. Do not seal the elbow joint so that vertical limb may be tilted to adjust water flow into skimmer. See attachments. 4) Bottom push. You have not indicated their positions. 2 bottom pushes diagonally opposite each other about few inches above the pond floor should be ok.
5) Bypass to pond. Good idea but I don't use it as I clean the filter all at once twice a year only. Lazy fella I am Laugh.
6) Filter depth. Like HWong, I feel the 6ft depth of the filter chambers are too much. For the sump it is ok. The depth should be width of mat (3ft) + free space below (1ft) = 4ft. Yes, otherwise you'll lose alot more water during filter cleaning.
7) Pumps. If you decide to have water plants, have the water supply for the veg filter come from 2 pumps. That way, if one pump breaks down, the veg filter won't dry up Smile. The water supply to the venturi and bottom pushes are flexible. I do not know the output of a FOK pump. Do some calculations to determine the distribution of the output from the 2 pumps so that in the event of a breakdown, the other pump is still able to oxygenate the pond.
8) Waterfall. Try to create a smooth water curtain to minimise noise produced Wink.
9) Electrical sockets. Make sure you have enough of these in case you want to add more airpumps, UV, etc.
10) Dechlorinator. Recommended. Good to have filtering capabilities too.
11) Air supply. Have 25mm class D PVC pipes concealed in the filter chamber walls to supply air from the Hiblows so that everything looks neat and tidy Wink.
12) Water source. Have a tap with direct mains water having passed thru dechlorinator in the pump chamber. This is used for filter cleaning and topping up water.

Hope I've not left out any important points. If so pls let me know. Smile
Always friendly :)

(This post was edited by dttk on Jun 4, 2004, 12:47 PM)
Attachments: modified.jpg (54.1 KB)
  Surface Skimmer.jpg (15.0 KB)


Lauts
Koi Lover

Jun 4, 2004, 3:03 PM

Post #6 of 22 (2918 views)
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Re: [dttk] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Dr Tan ,

Yep the more feedback the better. My reply and question>
a) Drains will go only to the settlement and flushed from there as sump is not located in a straight line . T joint cannot be installed , well unless you use more bends etc. My concern " There may not be sufficient pressure to drain the 3 bottom drains efficiently " ??!. Drain cover just stainless steel like those by Jeff. Are the any need for customised bottom drain ? Will ask the contractor to make a hole and connect with 6in PVC and cover with stainless steel .

b) My mats will be on a tray like your design . Don't understand why there will be problem to reattach standpipe ?

c) Surface skimmer noted. I have seen FOK pump (35 to 40m3 per hour) at the Kohaku Kois and Jeff's Arowana. I don't think I need venturis and bottom pushes . Comments? For air I will have 1 Hiblow 80 for filter and 1 hiblow 80 for 2 bottom drains .

Ideas noted and will incorporate into plans . Will update forum with new plans soon.

Thanks

Regards
Lau


dttk
Senior Member

Jun 4, 2004, 3:36 PM

Post #7 of 22 (2916 views)
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Re: [Lauts] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Lau, 1) if you were to arrange the mats in a cartridge or tray form like I did, the standpipe will be jutting out in the middle of the arrangement. After pulling out the standpipe during filter cleaning, you'll have difficulty in inserting it back into the floor hole as the mats will obscure your view. To overcome this, have a smaller chamber before the mats chamber and have the floor drain and standpipe there. You will see this in the diagram at the website.
2) Venturi and bottom pushes are just personal choices, if you feel you do not need them, that's fine. I note that you intend to have 2 unrings for your bottom drains.
3) I guess the bottom drain covers from Jeff are ok because better custom made ones are only available with professional pond builders.
4) As for the bottom drain pipes going into settlement chamber, each time you flush from sump, most of the water will only come from the settlement and not from the bottom drain itself. This may result in heavier waste collecting along the 6in drains rather than in the settlement chamber. Can you imagine what I'm trying to say? Smile You could make the sump in line with the settlement chamber. It need not be located as in the diagram. This way, you'll be able to follow my suggestion. Rgds.
Always friendly :)


Lauts
Koi Lover

Jun 4, 2004, 4:44 PM

Post #8 of 22 (2913 views)
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Re: [dttk] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Dr Tan ,

1) I will only have pull pipes in the sump chamber , and no pull pipes in the filters, just like in the pond with the bottom drain. Is this enough to plug the water ?

2) i intend to have bottom pushes but is one Tsurumi able to power 3 waterfall and a bottom push ? i calculated that 1FOS and 1 tsurumi will let me have approx 1 hour pond turnover. Will check out the uniring installation , like the idea.

3) Difficult to have everything in line . Else sump will take up viewing area. Especially if this will be a semi raised pond . Should I go back to 4in drain , don't want things to settle in the drain and not go to settlement chamber .

Regards
Lau


mike c
Koi Kichi


Jun 4, 2004, 6:42 PM

Post #9 of 22 (2910 views)
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Re: [dttk] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

hi dttk,

please enlighten me about standpipes ... i know its a type of drain ... but how does it work? does it have an o-ring? do you buy some sort of coupling? does it have a thread?

thank you very much.



____________________________________

If you know how it works, you'll know how to fix it


HWONG
Koi Addict

Jun 4, 2004, 8:10 PM

Post #10 of 22 (2907 views)
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Re: [Lauts] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Lau, It is difficult to explain on the net. Better you pay me a visit or call me and we can trash this out. Yang is away this weekend. You shud take heed some of the suggestions bcos I am suffering from not having them. I am just waiting to hack the filter to modify.


dttk
Senior Member

Jun 5, 2004, 10:12 AM

Post #11 of 22 (2892 views)
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Re: [HWONG] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

HWong Sly, good to know that you're planning to extend your system. When is work starting? Smile Rgds.
Always friendly :)


dttk
Senior Member

Jun 5, 2004, 10:23 AM

Post #12 of 22 (2886 views)
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Re: [Lauts] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Lau, 1) you could have pullpipes in the sump, but you must have one pullpipe for each floor drain and not join them together as one. Otherwise you'll lose all filter water during cleaning. 2) If your FOK is supplying the waterfalls too, then no problem. The 1.5in bottom push pipe doesn't require much pressure. 3) Good idea to visit HWong or Yang for better idea since it's easier to explain things. You're welcome to visit me too Smile. Looks like it's will be worthwhile to postpone work for another week to avoid costly mistakes. Smile Cheers.
Always friendly :)


dttk
Senior Member

Jun 5, 2004, 10:30 AM

Post #13 of 22 (2883 views)
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Re: [aragorn] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Aragorn, a standpipe or pullpipe is just a PVC pipe plugged vertically into a drain hole to hold water or prevent water from draining away. It is useful during filter cleaning as each chamber could be flushed individually by unplugging and replugging the standpipe. During normal filter operations, the standpipe is of course, plugged in. Smile
Always friendly :)


mike c
Koi Kichi


Jun 5, 2004, 3:57 PM

Post #14 of 22 (2871 views)
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Re: [dttk] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

dttk, i mean, how does this pipe stop the water from leaking?



____________________________________

If you know how it works, you'll know how to fix it


dttk
Senior Member

Jun 6, 2004, 9:28 AM

Post #15 of 22 (2845 views)
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Re: [aragorn] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Aragorn, the standpipe allows the water level in the pond and in the pipe to equalise. This prevents water from leaking into the filter after one have emptied it for cleaning purposes. After cleaning of the filter chamber has completed, the pipe is pulled off and water from the pond rushes into the chamber again. Hope you have a clearer picture now Smile.
Always friendly :)


mike c
Koi Kichi


Jun 6, 2004, 9:50 PM

Post #16 of 22 (2831 views)
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Re: [dttk] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

ok, thanks!



____________________________________

If you know how it works, you'll know how to fix it


Lauts
Koi Lover

Jun 7, 2004, 4:21 PM

Post #17 of 22 (2789 views)
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Re: [dttk] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Dr Tan & Hwong ,

Thanks for advise and will call during the weekend to visit that is if you guys are available then. Dr Tan could you mail your contact no and add , thanks.

My reno guys will start on the house and after that will do pond. Maybe in one month's time. Already forwarded the rough sketch and how the filter will work (based on your website sketch info) to him much earlier . Will only provide the details to the contractor once things are clearer to me .

Regards
Lau


dttk
Senior Member

Jun 7, 2004, 7:13 PM

Post #18 of 22 (2783 views)
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Re: [Lauts] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Lau, pls check your mail Smile.
Always friendly :)


Lauts
Koi Lover

Jul 6, 2004, 4:42 PM

Post #19 of 22 (2573 views)
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Re: [dttk] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Dttk ,

Upon rereading below , what do you mean by below statement ?Crazy I do not plan to have stand pipes other than for the L bend in the chambers. Only standpipes in the sump chambers. Is this OK?

Regards
Lau



In Reply To
2) L-bends. Your idea of having L-bends connecting the chambers is good as it saves space. This makes it necessary for you to have the standpipe in each chamber.


dttk
Senior Member

Jul 6, 2004, 7:18 PM

Post #20 of 22 (2565 views)
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Re: [Lauts] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Lau, when you are cleaning the filter, it is good to be able to clean each chamber individually. This can be achieved in 2 ways. 1) have standpipes in each chamber. OR 2) have standpipes in sump but each pipe should be dedicated to each chamber and not joined.
Hope this answers your question Smile.
Always friendly :)


Lauts
Koi Lover

Jul 13, 2004, 10:19 AM

Post #21 of 22 (2442 views)
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Re: [dttk] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Dr Tan, HWong ,

Attaching my amended pond plan for comments. Contractor will start digging this week. But will be slow as they expect rocks ie mud rocks. Met up and discussed with Jeff and few others including Dave. They are more into pond bottom drain going straight to sump. And the difficulty in unplugging/plugging 6in drain pipes. And how about water feeding to filter chambers from mid water ? Any comments?

Dr Tan , am I to understand that I can expect some waste to settle in the 6in drain and to be flushed out . If so then the water flowing thro must not be too fast else all waste will end up in the settlement's brushes . I do not want that. Which is why I was interested in having the pond bottom drain going to the sump. But I see no reason why waste will effectively collect at the drain even if a uni-ring is used to gather them and waiting to be flushed out. My kois (maybe all kois) has the habit of foraging and picking from the bottom. This action will stir up any waste settled at the pond bottom drain. So I think the T joint with 6in pipes going into the settlement and sump from pond bottom with continuous water flow will be better.

Dr Tan , HWong , Dr Teh and all those koi kichi , pls give me your feedback on the pond plans.

Thank you.

Regards
Lau
Attachments: Pond Construct.xls (61.0 KB)


dttk
Senior Member

Jul 13, 2004, 3:00 PM

Post #22 of 22 (2413 views)
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Re: [Lauts] New pond plan for feedback [In reply to] Can't Post

Lau, thanks for the update. I think this time your modified plans look ok and there's really nothing much left to comment on. I could see that you've decided to open all the floor drains in the sump. This is ok too I guess. The floor drains from the filter chambers should be 3in and not 6in like the bottom drains. You have not included the floor drain from the veg filter in the sump. This means you should have six 3in openings in the sump. You need not have a mid water feed as the waterflow in the three 6in bottom drains will not be too fast. Therefore I don't think the heavy waste will flow straight into the brushes. Furthermore, there're already 2 surface skimmers in place to draw in water.

The greatest advantage of connecting the bottom drains to the settlement and the sump is that when you purge the bottom drains, you're actually draining the settlement chamber as well. Furthermore as you rightly put it, there is a continuous flow of water from bottom drain to settlement chamber making it difficult for waste to collect in pond floor drain for long time. So, there is no worries if you don't have time to flush your bottom drains regularly. Infact I only flush my 3 bottom drains once a week with this system.
Always friendly :)

 
 
 



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