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Rebuilding pond in Jakarta........any advice welcome

 




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Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 21, 1999, 11:32 AM

Post #1 of 56 (94185 views)
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Rebuilding pond in Jakarta........any advice welcome Can't Post

Hi Guys, My name is Ridwan Goh and I live in Jakarta. First of all I have to salute your web-site and members, you are one of the best web-site of Koi Club. I got the most from here in planning to rebuild my garden pond to a real koi pond, and you are also the one to be blamed for my spending to rebuild my pond..... Smile
I sincerely thanks you guys, from knowing nothing, and now I have a little knowledge to do the pond sketch. I wonder where to send after I scan it so it could back up all my question below.

My next pond is about kidney-shape about 2.3 m x 2.55 m, with the surface of 5.17 m2 and 8 tons of water, the filter in L-shape with the total length of 4.75 m, width of 0.6 m, and depth of 1 m described as follow :
- Settlement 0.42 m2, Bio-filter 1.73 m2 in 4 chamber, pump chamber 0.35 m2
- Vegetable filter used in the 4th bio-filter + pump chamber, it’s about 0.65 m2
- So based on the surface the filter is 48.3 %, but on the volume it’s only 31.25 %
- I use glass to separate filter chambers in order to get the max. surface and ease of construction
- Media filter are : 2 layer of carlnet for settlement, and bio-ball + zeolite for bio-filter

For I plan to start the construction in real soon, I have several questions which I think you expert guys might help me out....please.. Smile

1. Is the filter size enough, which is should be taken to account, the surface area or the water volume ?
2. I plan to have the pond bottom level averagely at 1.55 m, but why sometime it was built with difference level like Mr. David’s from the depth of 1 m to 1.7 m
3. What is the trickle tower and green mat, for I read in the forum it was suggested to use the bio-ball in the trickle filter and green mat in the bio-filter, while I plan to use bio-ball in my bio-filter.
4. How to install an effective surface skimmer, where it goes to, for the water level of pond and filter is the same.
5. What the Water Dechloronatio System looks like and how to install the system, and how about the price ?
6. I plan to use 2 pond bottom drain of 4” PVC pipe, and 2” PVC pipe for bottom drain of each filter chamber. Is it big enough ?
7. What is the best system at the standing pipe joint so it could prevent the water leakage, since I have no space to use the valve for bottom drain
8. The last is how to choose the air pump, because my existing pond is only 60 cm and I just use small aquarium aerator.


Advices are welcome from you all…………

Sincerely,

Ridwan Goh
Email : ridwan01@cbn.net.id


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 21, 1999, 6:20 PM

Post #2 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi Ridwan,

Just email your sketch to us at webmaster@koi.com.my and we will post it up.



Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 23, 1999, 5:43 AM

Post #3 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi Ridwan,

The following picture taken from KOI Kichi (by Peter Waddington) show how a green matting look like.



It basically consist of a lot of fine synthetic fibre that offer a great surface area for bacteria to colonise.

The bioball is more suitable for wet and dry filter such as trickle tower. Having said that, there are also others who actually use bioball for bio filter but we are not sure about its effectiveness.

(This post was edited by Khoobg on Jan 5, 2000, 9:00 AM)


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 23, 1999, 6:02 AM

Post #4 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi Ridwan,

1)
With filter size equal to 48.3% of the surface are of the pond, it should be good enough.

2)
In normal case, most pond is built with taper depth to facilitate the flow of fish waste towards the central discharge bottom drain pipe.

3)
Green matting is shown above. Right here in Malaysia, we made trickle tower using big PVC pipe (12") and filled with bioball. Water that gone through the biofilter is pump to the top of the tower and spray through the bioball.

4)
Please read this thread for water skimmer http://www.koi.com.my/...um3/HTML/000010.html
After you start the pump, there will be a slight different in water head. The water can be directed to filter or to waste, it is up to you.

5)
Water Dechloronatio System is basically a carbon column. Costing less than RM 2000 in Malaysia.

6)
If possible use 2 4" bottom drain.

7)
Use 80 watt Hi-Blow air compressor and discharge compressed air via uniring.


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 23, 1999, 6:05 AM

Post #5 of 56 (94132 views)
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A drawing by Hans Ham show the installation of uniring.



Read this thread for more information http://www.koi.com.my/...um6/HTML/000005.html


(This post was edited by Khoobg on Jan 5, 2000, 9:00 AM)


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 23, 1999, 9:47 AM

Post #6 of 56 (94132 views)
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Ridwan Goh,

The following is the reply posted by Hans Ham :-

Mr. Ridwan Goh

Trying to answer your questions:
1) Take only surface area from the Bio.filter in account,min.30%from pond S.a.
2)Suggest bottom benched to centre gravity feed or drains,about 8",and have also mid water feed.
3)Green or blue matting or sinking bio ball ,used for bio. filter media.Flowting bio ball use for trickle tower.
4)Check on swimming pool skimmer ,or use 4"overflow pvc pipe powered by a small pump.
5)Dechlorinattion system ,comprising, activated carbon filter or anthracite silica sand.Option :For manual or fully automatic operation,size :floor space 12x12 to 14x14,overall height50"to60",price approx.1500 to 3000 rinngit for automatic.
6)use two bottom drain in pond ,one each filter chamber.
7)Suggestuse only quality pvc. fitting and pipe 5mm-8mm.
8)use high blow air pump size 80 lph.or 100lph.

Trickle tower:
The t. t. filter or wet dry filter is designed to convert ammonia to nitrate ect.by incorporating an oxygen rich environment,and a very large surface area for aerobic bacteria to perform.
Water enters the top of a trickle filter through a spray bar or drip plate,no debris can pass through. The small openings that distribute water,evenly over bio ball or plastic media.
During this process,fresh air is pumped upward through the media columm ,insuring constand high oxygen level in all areas of the media,suggest to install after a sand filter or last chamber befor return to pond.

Rdgs. Hans



Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 23, 1999, 10:35 PM

Post #7 of 56 (94132 views)
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Thank you so much Mr. Khoo and Mr. Hans Ham

I have print out all your answers, I am in the office now so I have to read it later. But I got it all, maybe need alittle bit detail (I am beginner) so please don't get bored with my beginner-question.
I will send my sketch too tonight because I draw it on color milimeter-block paper so the file is quite big when I sanned it last night. I have copied it to B/W this morning so I can send it tonight.

Thanks,
RIdwan Goh


Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 24, 1999, 6:50 AM

Post #8 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi Mr. Khoo and Hans,
It looks like you two are the persons who always there when somebody need help on the pond-consstruction, where are the others... Smile

I have send the sketch of my pond to the webmaster, please advice me on the sketch because I will start the construction tomorrow by demolishing the existing pond and start the excavation works. My workers have come and if I don’t start it by now I am afraid it won’t be completed by Christmas time.

Thanks for the answers and advice, but I need more detail because what I can get here in Jakarta so far, even from the shop is not so sophisticated as yours.
1. How thick is the green matting, is that 1.5” ? I can’t read it clearly on the forum. And what is the price and the unit size sold there, I have never seen this thing before even in the shop, any Indonesian friend information ?
2. Is uniring made of the air stone and the diameter quite big, 75 cm, how about the price ?
3. Yes, I use 2 bottom drain of 4”, but is it enough to use 2” bottom drain at each filter chamber ?
4. I don’t get it for the stand pipe joint; is that a special fitting joint, and what do you mean of the pipe 5 mm – 8 mm ?
5. So the Dechloronation system is like a tower, where is the water inlet and outlet-upside or bottom side. Any picture ? What is the difference between manual and automatic Dechlorination System, is the price difference worth to be considered ?
6. I will change my bio-filter media to green matting and I am very interested to made a trickle tower. Any picture of it ?
- Can we install the trickle tower on the wall above the small waterfall so the outlet of trickle filter will go to the waterfall.
- If I use a 12” PVC trickle tower after my pump chamber, how tall it’s gonna be ?
- I have a 250 Watt DAB Submersible pump with capacity of 275 ltr/min, can I direct all the water to the trickle tower or I split the outlet of pump to the pond directly and the other to trickle tower ?
7. I don’t have knowledge about sand filter, I just saw it on the photograph of Mr. David’s pond. It’s like a metal pond, right ? What is your suggestion about this by considering its effective and price ?

I think that’s all for this time, looks I become the one who post the most questions in each posting…………..malu..ah…..

Sincerely,
Ridwan Goh


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 24, 1999, 7:52 AM

Post #9 of 56 (94132 views)
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Picture on filter submitted by Ridwan



Picture on pond layout





(This post was edited by Khoobg on Jan 5, 2000, 9:00 AM)


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 24, 1999, 8:37 AM

Post #10 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi Ridwan,

1)
Green matting come in 2 metre x 1 metre dimension and is available in several thickness, 1", 2". It cost about RM 200 per piece (I am not sure about the exact price now)

2)
Uniring is one type of porous black hose, flexible type. The hose can be connected to PVC pipe with a T-joint. It can then be connected to Hi-Blow air compressor via pbc pipe. This hose is light and to enable it to sink to the bottom of the pond, you need to insert a circular stainless steel via the centre hollow of the hose. When place near the bottom of the pond, there must be a gap between the uniring and the pond bottom. See the above picture again for detail.

3)
I use DAB pump before. It is not so efficient and most important of all, it consume a lot of electricity. Better pump will be OMNI pump which has a 150 watt rating. It has 2" outlet compared to 1.5" outlet of DAB pump.

4)
I can see that you intend to use Zeolite in every bio filter compartment. Zeolite should normally be placed in the last chamber to absorb any remaining ammonia not treated by biofilter.

5)
There are many way of building a trickle filter. You can use 12" pvc pipe or you can use rectangular containers stack one on top of the other. Drill a lot of holes at the base of each container to let water flow down. Stuff the container with bioball. The flow rate passing the trickle filter should be slow.

6)
Sand filter is a mechanical filter which normally used to further polish the water before letting the water going back to pond. To run sand filter, you need the powerful centrifugal pump of possible 500 watt or 750 watt rating. Very heavy on electricity. Sand filter need to be backwashed everyday. Sand filter will no doubt trap a lot of fine waste and make your pond very clean.

7)
Water can be introduced into settlement chamber sideway. Not necessary via the bottom. You also need discharge pipe for settlement chamber. May be you should consider building a bigger settlement chamber. A good settlement chamber will ensure very small amount of physical fish waster is pass to your biofilter. Less likehood of blockage later.


Hans Ham is a specialist in pond construction. Possibly he can give you much more advice.



Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 25, 1999, 7:51 PM

Post #11 of 56 (94132 views)
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Thanks Mr. Khoo,
- Is it enough if I change the size of the settlement chamber to 600 mm x 1,050 mm by taking up half of the surface of Bio-Filter 1.
- Following your advice I have decided to change the bio filter media to green matting, and put zeolite at the end and then reduce zeolite gradually.
- What is the difference function between biofilter using green matting and trickle tower. My assumption is green matting to convert the ammonia to nitrite and trickle filter is for bacteria to convert nitrite to nitrate, am I right ?
- Is there any calculation for the trickle tower volume or capacity ?


Hans Ham
Deleted

Nov 26, 1999, 1:47 AM

Post #12 of 56 (94130 views)
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Hello Ridwan Goh,
What ever you do, Don't make the Bio-filter smaller.You need to have minimum 30% surface area, counting only the bio-filter.Better have it bigger.
-Trickle Tower : see my previous note on trickle tower.
You can divide the Pump to the water fall. And to trickle tower as you don't need to much water to spray over the trickle media.
As i have used 12 inch pipe PVC, 6 Ft long , 1 Ft off bottom, Drip Plate to support the media. I use it approx. 2000 bio ball.Fill it to the top,1 Ft space on the top.Have spraying bar going in there.Cut round green matting.Install on top of bio-ball,Have valve to control the flow.
Regards,
Hans


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 26, 1999, 2:13 AM

Post #13 of 56 (94132 views)
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Ridwan,

Like Hans say, do not reduce the size of your bio filter. Create more space for settlement chamber.

Your bio filter with green matting alone will be able to do the job of converting ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate. Trickle filter is additional but is very effective.


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 26, 1999, 7:42 AM

Post #14 of 56 (94132 views)
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Ridwan

The following picture was scan and email to me by Hans Ham for your information



(This post was edited by Khoobg on Jan 5, 2000, 9:00 AM)


Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 26, 1999, 7:50 PM

Post #15 of 56 (94132 views)
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My name is Ken Sutanto, leaving in Jakarta, a beginner as well. I am also plan to construct a Koi pond and have been following this discussion for quite some times and it comes more and more interesting. My planning is to make fish pond size 3.36 M (L) x 2,05 M (W) x 1.50 M (D) Rectangular shape.
Biofilter size is 1.65 M (L) x 0.60 M (W) x 1.50 M (D). so Biofilter surface area only abt 24%. Due to the space constraint I prefer not to increase the surface area for biofilter by making the pond smaller. Is it possible if I add 2 tricker tower 12" x 6 ft as replacement for the shortage 5% of biofilter to meet the minimum of 30% biofilter ? Thanks and appreciate much for any advise.


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 26, 1999, 10:07 PM

Post #16 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hello Ken,

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, if the space contraint allow you have have a filter size that is only 24% of the surface area of the pond, then you can just install several trickle tower.

While there many company commercial sell factory made trickle tower, you can actually make them with PVC pipe of 12" and six feet long. Add a few towers if you like.

In my case, I use rectangular containers stack on top of each others and drill a lot of hole near the base to let the water drip down. Very cheap and easy to install. In my case, I can even remove the container from the tower from time to time to clean (of course with pond water).

To give you some idea about trickle tower, take a look at the following URL & pictures of Nitritech

http://www.nitritech.com/PAGES/TF.HTM

http://www.nitritech.com/PAGES/TT.HTM

Hence I think trickle filter will be a solution to those who wish to add their water filtering capacity without having to build permanent undergroung filter.

Hope that help Smile



Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 26, 1999, 10:20 PM

Post #17 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi Ken,

You have not mentioned about your settlement chamber. Do not forget to include one.

Cheers


Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 26, 1999, 11:40 PM

Post #18 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi Mr. Khoo,


I still can't grasp the trickle tower filter method and how to make it DIY. I'm a big fan of DIY. I would appreciate if you can make some kind of drawing and how it works. I believe many of us hobbyists are out of space for bio filter but eager to add the kois.

Thanks


Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 27, 1999, 12:54 AM

Post #19 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi, Mr. Khoo,

Many thanks for your advice, it helps a lot. also from this forum I feel more and more understanding about Koi and Koi's pond. I really appreciate that. I am now still working on the drawing, once ready I will post to this forum you for yours and other advices.


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 27, 1999, 12:54 AM

Post #20 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi Rahim,

Find rectangular container that you can stack on top of each other. Now you want the water to flow from the top to bottom, what you need to do is to drill holes on the base of the container. Drill a lot of small holes so that water can drip down.

Drill holes for all except the most bottom container where you can install a PVC pipe to lead water back to pond.

Fill all container with bio balls.

Water can be spray onto the top container by shower head or many other means.

If you still do not understand, then I will have to take a digital photo and post it up later.

Hope that help Smile


Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 27, 1999, 1:45 AM

Post #21 of 56 (94132 views)
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Thanks Mr. Khoo,


I think I can understand the concept. But if you have time and the digital camera, why not? I guess many people can benefit from it.

I really appreciate your help.

Thanks


Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 27, 1999, 1:55 AM

Post #22 of 56 (94132 views)
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Thank you for this great forum.

I say this because from my observation, there are more and more people building new pond due to reading through this forum. That means your forum scores a lot because it benefit a lot of people including me.


Anonymous
Anonymous

Nov 27, 1999, 5:42 AM

Post #23 of 56 (94132 views)
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Thanks a lot guys,
Hi……..Ken, at last you join too... Smile
My construction has come to the 3rd day, demolish and excavation works will be completed by tomorrow.

- I cancel the change of my bio-filter size, now I move the discharge chamber right next to the wall (in drawing it is moved downward) and size become 500mm x 600mm. Consequently I can have a settlement of 1,100mm x 600 mm, is it OK ? Seems I can’t make it bigger due to the space constraint.
- Thanks Mr. Hans for the drawing of the dechlorination system, what do you mean by the writing of 50 and 180 at the left side. And in automatic system they do the backwash automatically, then where the dirty water of backwash go to ?
- About the trickle tower used by Mr. Hans, is it dry or no water at the bottom or we have to maintain a certain level of water and then how high is the outlet should be from the bottom.
- Mr. Hans, can I use the air from the air pump of uni-ring as the fresh air pumped up from bottom of the trickle filter as you mention earlier ?
- As I’m gonna start the plumbing works very soon, Hans, would you please help me again about the stand pipe joint, because I worry about it and there were pipes of 5mm – 8mm I cannot understand on your earlier posting

Thanks


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 27, 1999, 8:56 AM

Post #24 of 56 (94132 views)
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A drawing showing trickle tower (from Koi Kichi)



(This post was edited by Khoobg on Jan 5, 2000, 9:00 AM)


Khoobg
Webmaster


Nov 27, 1999, 9:00 AM

Post #25 of 56 (94132 views)
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Hi Ridwan,

Water level at the bottom of the trickle filter is not important (look at the drawing above). It is important to let the water spray down slowly through the media (bioball)


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