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The Perfect filter

 




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SMW1
Veteran

Apr 23, 2002, 1:33 PM

Post #1 of 28 (81965 views)
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The Perfect filter Can't Post

Hi all,

This post is for the new koi keepers amoung us.

As most of you will know, when it comes to keeping koi you must have near perfect water parameters. But the question that most of us are constantly asking, is how do we get near perfect water parameters. This is probably the biggest question in all koi keepers. I hope that will help from sifu's of this forum we can get to the bottom of this.

The description in this thread is based on a gravity fed filter system (i.e. bottom drain, surface skimmer etc.).

The first thing we need to understand is how our water becomes un-perfect. Well it's all to do with the Nitrogen cycle that is present in everything fom a goldfish bowl to the sea.

This diagram along with my note below should help you understand it. Although kevkoi has given us a pretty good descrion in a previous thread:



1) As you can see Ammonia is produced by a) fish respiration, excretion and constant urinating. b) plants decomposing c) excess food (this is the biggest contributer).

In a basic koi pond there are not many plants, so the next steps are done by the process of our filters.

2) Within the first chamber we have brushes and/or nets. We need to get rid of some of these ammonia producing particles. So we have a mechanical filter. This will catch excretion and waste food and also parts of decomposing plants. At this stage Ammonia will still be present in the water. Please note that Ammonia is highly toxic, even in small concentrations.

3) The next stage is the bio filter. This will consist of Flocor, Stinted glass, Japanese matting etc. the higher the surface area, the better. This filter must be covered to protect from sunlight. Within this filter and on the filter media live bacteria called Nitrosomonas. These bacteria are aerobic which means they require oxygen to survive. So it is essential that you provide these guys with as much Oxygen as possible via an airline (i.e air pump with air stone). They also need food, their favourite food is Ammonia. So, by eating Ammonia (NH3) and breathing Oxygen (O2), they excrete Nitrite (NO2).

Also within this filter chamber you will have bacteria called Nitrobacter. These guys are also aerobic so they also need a constant supply of oxygen. Unlike the Nitrosomonas, the Nitobacter eat Nitrite, they excrete Nitrates.

4) The next stage ideally should also be a bio chamber, again made from Flocor, Jap Matting, Stinted Glass etc. The more bio chambers you have in your filter the more likely that all the Ammonia and Nitrites will be minimal on exit of these chambers.

5) The next chamber should be a pump chamber or a vegetation chamber. We know now that the main element in this chamber will be Nitrates. So we need to get rid of these.

5a) If this is a pump chamber then this will consist of some sort of PH buffer material (in netted sacks) i.e. Coral chips, Oyster shells etc. and your pump(s). From here you have two options: a) You need to pump the water back to the pond via a waterfall that consist of plants. These plants use Nitrates as a form of fertiliser, and in return they supply that water with Oxygen. b) You need to pump this water back to the pond, but some of this water should be diverted via a trickle tower which will remove Nitrates from the water.

5b) If this is a vegetation chamber, unlike the other chambers, this should not be covered as most plants need sunlight to live. In here you need water plants that produce lots of leaves. The more leaves the better. I would recommend that at the exit of this chamber you have another row of brushes or netting, to stop large particles of debris feeding back into your pumps. This chamber will eat the Nitrates and produce oxygen. After this chamber you should have your pump chamber, see section 5a) for more info.


I hope this helps. Please feel free to comment and ask questions. I'm sure myself and some of the sifu's of this site will be please to help you.

Stuart


KevKoi
Koi Kichi


Apr 23, 2002, 5:05 PM

Post #2 of 28 (81814 views)
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Re: [SMW1] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

WoW, very comprehensive.... I'm impressed. Even got nice graphics and all. Wink

U the MAN Stuart! LaughCool



TonyG
User

Apr 24, 2002, 3:44 AM

Post #3 of 28 (81787 views)
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HELLO STUARTLaugh

You make our day. Beautifully explain and a very nice illustration. To all new hobbyist which are still unsure about the relationship of filter and the nitogen cycle, please print this out, it is a very good material.

Bravo Stuart.SmileSmileSmile

Tony


dttk
Veteran

Apr 24, 2002, 5:25 AM

Post #4 of 28 (81779 views)
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Re: [SMW1] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

Good Job Stuart! Beginners will find this helpful Smile. Since the topic is The Perfect Filter, besides water filtration, maybe we should mention abit about waste removal too. This may seem obvious to us but to the beginners, I feel it should be mentioned at this stage. Each chamber should have at least one 2-4in. drain outlet with standpipe. This is to facilitate removal of accumulated debris during filter maintenance. Hope this completes the picture Sly.
Always friendly :)


johnson lee
Veteran

Apr 24, 2002, 5:49 AM

Post #5 of 28 (81774 views)
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Great article Stuart!Wink

Comprehensive and easy to understand! I recommend this heartily to all newbies and this is a 'must read' for all beginners.

Just a note: Marine biologists have done lots of research on the nitrification process and have even conducted empirical tests. It has been a known fact that nitrobacter is not the bacteria that 'eats' nitrites but rather nitrospira marina.

Those who are interested in this can check out this link: http://www.coloradokoi.com/nitrific.htm

Keep it up, Stuart!

Rgds

Johnson


SMW1
Veteran

Apr 24, 2002, 9:12 AM

Post #6 of 28 (81768 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Guys,

Totally agree with you Dr Tan, there was so much information, and I didn't want to write a book in one post. The waste removal completely slipped my mind.

It's never to late to add. I will edit the first article with all you comments.

Thanks


SMW1
Veteran

Apr 24, 2002, 11:10 AM

Post #7 of 28 (81760 views)
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Re: [SMW1] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

In reference to the explanations above it is important, when you first construct your pond and filter to ease the filter in gently. You have your pond filled with fresh water that you have added your de-chlorine solution to. Your filter is up and running, the water is crystal clear as you have only just put it in. You take some readings, PH 7.5, ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. Every thing looks good, so you can now add all your koi into the pond as the water is perfect right ?. Wrong !!!!. The filter in not yet mature. Lets compare it to a weight lifter in the Olympics. Does he walk up to that stage and say, ok put all the weights on I’m sure I can lift it ?. No he doesn’t he starts with a light weight and works his way up. This is how you need to treat your filter. You should start with your filter running for 2 weeks, then add 2 – 3 fish per week, taking water reading every few days. If you find that your ammonia levels are high but these are not much traces of Nitrite and Nitrate, then the Nitrosomonas in your filter have not developed yet. If you find that your Ammonia are fairly ok but your Nitrate is sky high, then your nitrospira marina have not developed yet. Just for reference: Ammonia is three times more toxic than Nitrite.

Lets have a closer look at the cycle. Please note that time scales can never be accurate due to the impossibility to determine how quickly a filter take to mature. Below is just a rough example of the process.



Day 1 - 10


Note the first 10 days on the above graph. Ammonia begins a rapid rise up to lethal levels and then drops dramatically to close to a zero level. The replication of the bacteria determine this rise and fall. Since they replicate geometrically, the hypothetical first "bug" becomes 2 in 8 hours, then 4 (16 hours) then 16 (24 hours) the 32 (32 hours) then 64 (40 hours) and so on..... It takes about ten days in relatively ideal conditions for the bacterial to replicate to population where all the ammonia produced within the aquarium is immediately reduced to nitrite (please note that this is based on 1 pond that was tested and will not be the same for every pond). What is shown on the graph is the sudden drop of ammonia concentration slightly after the 10 day maximum.




Day 10 – 21


The next 21 days, after the ammonia spike drops to minimal, now show a low to zero level of ammonia residue, but a steadily increasing concentration of nitrite, rising much higher in concentration than the ammonia graph, about double in fact. Nitrite is toxic, but not as toxic as ammonia, thus the simple fact that the concentration can rise so high without a total loss of fish. As nitrite becomes more evident, so do the populations of nitrospira marina removing the nitrite from the system and changing it into nitrate [and energy for the bacteria]. As the populations grow, they gradually become able to reduce nitrite as soon as it is created by nitrosomonas acting on ammonia production. After 21 days from the beginning of nitrite build-ups the spike falls rapidly to the low levels of the graph. From there the nitrate levles start to rise over time.



The Glitch


There is a problem with the above simplistic view, Mother Nature has thrown a curve into the straightforward Nitrogen Cycle reviewed above. The bacteria that reduces nitrite to nitrate, nitrospira marina is inhibited by a free concentration of ammonia in the water. This is the reason that the nitrospira marina population is essentially kept at a zero level until day ten when the ammonia spike reaches the minimum level. Once the ammonia inhibition is removed, then (and only then) nitrospira marina can begin to replicate. They are also lithotrophic so they require the same things that nitrosomonas require, oxygen, their food source and clean hard places to attach and populate.



After Day 31


Once the nitrite is removed as fast as it is produced by nitrosomonas, the final by-product of the Nitrogen Cycle is nitrate. It is a compound which is not easily reduced any further by aerobic bacteria. Because of this, the nitrate levels begin to slowly rise and continue to build over the rest of the life of the pond. The best way to get rid of nitrate is simply to practice proper water maintenance procedures. With regular water changes, nitrate is diluted, removing water with high nitrate concentrations and replacing it with low nitrate conditioned tap water is one of the most effective ongoing ways to eliminate nitrate. A second method is by using a vegetation filter, the plant life in this filter use Nitrate as a form of fertilise and give back Oxygen into the water. If you have this then think of how much time you can save by all of those water changes. The last way which has been tried in various ways by members of this forum, is the trickle tower. For more information on this see the hot topic list on the main homepage.

Again I hope I have helped someone by this explanation, comments, additions (or corrections in johnson's case Wink) agin more than welcome.

Stuart



johnson lee
Veteran

Apr 24, 2002, 11:29 AM

Post #8 of 28 (81757 views)
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Way to go Stuart!

Impressive charts and an equally good explanation. Attention all newbies: Take time to read up on this as it will help you a lot in understanding the way your filter works and also the nitrogen cycle.

By doing this, I assure you that you will accidentally 'kill' less fish.

Good job, Stuart!

JohnsonSmile

PS. Did you do the experiments yourself?


mattloui
User

Apr 24, 2002, 12:47 PM

Post #9 of 28 (81751 views)
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Hi Stuart

great job and most refreshing to know the basics. All the explanation in the presenation only indicates what a great guru you are, well, at least to amateurs like us.

Anyway, on the filter, i am aware of the compartmentalisation of the filter and the up/down flow to achieve maximum flow to the filter media. But suppose the chambers are not distinct as in a DIY case, would the function of the filter be in anyway compromised. In my case, after the first chamber(mec), i virtually stacked all the hollow rings and volcanic rocks together without physical boundaries; the only separation is for the last chamber with activated carbon and some money plants to extract the nitrates. Even then, it is only a mat( supposed to be bio mats) i bought from the shop. Pl note this is only a temporary measure. Would the filter work well under the above situation. Unsure

would appreciate good advise from a guru. BlushBlush
CHEERS


SMW1
Veteran

Apr 24, 2002, 4:19 PM

Post #10 of 28 (81739 views)
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Re: [mattloui] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Johnson / Matthiasloui,

Unfortunately, I did not perform this test myself. I borrowed the diagrams off of another web site.

Matthiasloui, your filter set-up has all the media you need to complete the nitrogen cycle.

Correct me if I am wrong but you have a 3 bay filter. The first is mechanical, 2nd bio and 3rd vegi. If you want to make this more effective then you need to enhance the bay needs it the most. i.e. if you water is reading high nitrates then you need to increase the size of your vegi filter. High Ammonia or Nitrites would mean you need to increae the bio filter.

If the water is flowing from the mech filter from the top (whcih it should be otherwise you will get all the debris in yourbio filter, not good) then it should leave the bio filter from the bottom. however if your filter is long then you have dead spots at bottom left and top right. to enhance this more you willl need to put some splitters in. so within the bio filter the water flow goes from up (mech filter outlet) , down, up again, down, up again, down (and out to yourvegi filter). This way the dead spots are removed and the filter would be functioning to its full ability.

Hope this helps. let me know if its still not clear.

Stuart


mattloui
User

Apr 25, 2002, 7:38 AM

Post #11 of 28 (81706 views)
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Thanks for the reply, Stuart

Yes, it is a 3 bay filter. The mec filter is separate container put on top of the bio filter and vegi filter. Water from the pond flows down to the bio filter (via the mec filter at the top) and hereby get soaks into the filter media and then gradually flows to another bay(vegi) and ultimately down back to the pond. Ratio is 1:2:1 and so far so good except for some minor flashing of the kois which i think( i hope) can be overcomed with rock salt.

well, after your advise on dead spots, i think i will improve the spiltters to maximise coverage of the bio filter. My main concern is anaerobic bugs( the bad guys who do not need Oxy to live) which may multiply and create unneccessary toxic to the habitat. this thing may hit you when u least expected.

By the way b/4 i go, one last advise. In the first chamber, the mec , are we suppose to trap only the solids and dead leaves and leave the brown "dirt" to flow to the bio filter. I was under the impression that this brown dirt is rich in ammonia content and i do not want to deprive our good friends from their feast. If this dirt should be trapped at the first chamber then i wuld like to use cotton wool instead of the more perofated type.

thanks again
CHEERS


SMW1
Veteran

Apr 25, 2002, 11:03 AM

Post #12 of 28 (81699 views)
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Re: [mattloui] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

Morning,

Do you say you mech filter flows down to the bio filter.

Usually I would advise against this as the deris will fall to the borttom of your mech filter, but if this is on top of your bio then you mat have allot of deris in your bio chamber (not good). A simple way to overcome this is to skim the water down to the bio filter. By this i mean the water should come form the top of the mech filter to the bio filter (you probably have this anyway and I have just waffled on). Sly.

If you koi are flashing. what are your water parameters ?

I was puzzled by this fro a long time when I first started in the koi hobby. My kept changng the water cause the kois were flashing and the nitrate was at 10mg. In the end one of my friends took a scape and it turned out I have Ich (white spot). Are you able to take a scrape of your koi and check it under a microscope. Anything with aout 500 x should be fine.

Brown particles into the bio filter. Ok, the purposed of a mech filter is to stop ALL visible particles in the water. ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate are too small to see and will always get through your mech filter unless you have good guys in there too. If you let too many particles into your bio then this will require more maintenance to clean.

You ,may need to improve your mech filter to include a waste pipe at the bottom and a little more reinforcement.

Stuart


Lou Ann
New User

Apr 26, 2002, 5:26 AM

Post #13 of 28 (81671 views)
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Hi Stuart, thanks for the clearly explained data. i aggree with all of it. I will be passing it on to a friend who needs to read it. Thanks!

In Reply To



mattloui
User

Apr 29, 2002, 12:58 PM

Post #14 of 28 (81606 views)
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Hi Stuart

Upon your good advise, i revisited my filter and change it into a slightly bigger one and improve it with splitters. The mech filter has a skimmer which flows into the bio filter. There are now four chambers with the last chamber being the smallest. Will give a goer first and see how it turns out. Tongue

As for the minor flashing, I administered some medication on the parasites and changed 20% of the water and the flashing disappeared completely the next day. Thanks for the concern anyway but it wasn't a severe case as mentioned earlier

Now, I run out of space for the coral chips in the filter. Would it be good if i just leave the coral chips inside the pond near the outlet pipe from the filter. OR could I leave the chips at the settlement chamber (first chamber). I understand that this chips can also act as bio filter , is it so??Unsure Would the function of the chips as a ph buffer be affected.?Crazy . By the way, i read on many occasions that ph crash can be a disaster. PiratePirate. What is a PH CRASH and how do we know when it happens. Ph crash means fluctuation in ph levels Cool????

Stuart, I am a beginner and i hope my simple questions do not take too much of your time and keep u away from your beloved kois.

thanks


SMW1
Veteran

Apr 30, 2002, 9:18 AM

Post #15 of 28 (81577 views)
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Re: [mattloui] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mattloui,

That was quick !. You've modified your filter already. Excellent, you shoul dstart to see some improvement almost straight away, unless new media was added. The only problem with a skimmer that flows to the bio filter, it that some debris sinks and some floats, so you may get a little bit of debris into your bio filter. This is not too much of a big deal and just means that you may need to rinse the bio media every now and again (I'm talking months here, not weeks, so don;t worry too much Laugh).

I'm glad to hear that the flashing has stoppped. This maybe a silly question and I think I know what the answer is going to be, did you add the chemicals to treat parasites before or after changing the pond water ?. also just out of interest what chemical did you use ?.

Coral chips are usually better in the last compartment of your filter. However if you have no room in your last compartment I would put them in the first as apposed to the pond itself. I would personally keep the filter completely seperate form the pond (even the plants).

Yes Coral do buffer the PH, but you need to rplace the coral chips evry 8 - 10 months as they have been know to have side effects. I would prefer to use oyster shells to do the same job with out the side effects (a bit of a bummer to clean though Crazy).

PH crash is when the PH level drops due to fish, plant and baterial activity without adequate buffering of water. PH is a measure ment of the free hydrogen ions in the system. It s measured on a scale from 1 to 14, the PH required for koi should be somewhere between 7 and 8.5.

Don't worry about keeping my away from my koi', this is all part of the job, learning and teaching. Keep em coming Wink.

Stuart



mattloui
User

May 2, 2002, 9:30 AM

Post #16 of 28 (81541 views)
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Stuart

I have not seen substantial improvement but it seems to be more in order and the water is flowing through every corner. in this way, i would prevent the anaerobic conditions which I was advised could be disastrous and bring about Hikkui. At the rate it is going, i think it is going to be just fine.

The medication is LIFE BEARER- ELIMINATES FLUKES AND FISH LICES and yes i changed the water first before before putting drops of the life bearer. The fishes are well now.( i hope).

After putting my concern to you on the coral chips, i went browsing on the threads on coral chips and was appalled at the potential dangers of using coral chips as filter media. It appears that the debris trapped inside the corals can create anaerobic situation and cause hikkui. i immediately put the coral chambers at the last chamber and put some mats to prevent any debris from trapping inside the corals. I am going to be monitoring the coral chips closely from now onwards.

i guess i will sign off now as you have ward off my concerns/problems and also it is feeding time for the kois now.bye
CHEERS


ROOKIEKOIGUY
New User

Jul 1, 2003, 9:21 PM

Post #17 of 28 (79592 views)
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Stuart, Bran, Johnson, Dr Tan, Kevin & the rest of my koi role models, I have enjoyed the reading of your posts and the constructive arguments. U r all great...I have only been on this site 4 a couple days-I'm a wanna Be, Just a rookie with a question. I'm in the planning stages of building a 7000-8000 gal pond in Riverside,California- the pond will b in direct sun most of the day. I was wondering if I get a Aqua Ultima 2 20,000 gal bio-filter plus a 80 watt uv light if that would b enough to keep my pond properly filtered. It will have a skimmer-air supply & waterfall... What do u think about these Aqua Ultima 2 20,000 gal bio-filter setups. My fish supplier has them and thinks there great.......Do u have any info on them? 4 your input.....Tom




RookieKoiGuy


dttk
Veteran

Jul 2, 2003, 6:11 AM

Post #18 of 28 (79565 views)
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Re: [ROOKIEKOIGUY] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Rookiekoiguy, welcome to the forum Smile. Thanks for the compliments. In my honest opinion, for koi-keeping, go for non-pressurised filtration units. If we treat disposal of koi waste similar to disposal of human waste, you'll understand what I mean. Our koi are so precious to us that we should treat them like humans! Wink. Won't you agree? Sly. In a pressurised filtration system, solid waste are broken down into tiny bits. Along with this, alot of other "God-only-knows-what" other impurities are released into the water. These impurities contaminate the water further. They also cloud the water. Some of them may not get processed by the filter eventhough at the end of it, the recycled water is crystal clear (that is, if you have a very efficient mechanical barrier). The koi will know the difference eventhough we don't see it. Water to koi is like air to humans. Only a change with fresh water will improve the situation. In a non-pressurised filtration system, solid waste in their original form are flushed out regularly. Because of this, the mechanical barrier works better by trapping larger solids and the biomedia remains cleaner for a longer time. This means less and easier maintenance, and more time to relax and enjoy the hobby. I suggest you go for a multichamber gravity-fed filtration system with bottom drains. Smile
Always friendly :)


ROOKIEKOIGUY
New User

Jul 7, 2003, 8:31 AM

Post #19 of 28 (79398 views)
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Re: [dttk] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

AQUA ULTIMA 20000 BIO FILTERS

I HAVE HEARD ALOT OF GOOD IN THE USA OF THESE AQUA ULTIMA 20000 BIO FILTERS I CAN'T SEEM TO GET ANY FEEBACK FROM THIS FORUM FROM ANYONE WHO HAS USED THEM. I GUESS NOBODY USES THEM BUT THE USA. I WOULD LIKE SOME FEED BACK GOOD OR BAD.

THANKS DR TAN FOR YOUR INPUT IT IS APPRECIATED ALWAYS, TOM

PS-SORRY THE PRINT CAME OUT SO BIG LAST TIMEUnsure




RookieKoiGuy


josephandgabby
User


Apr 22, 2005, 2:59 AM

Post #20 of 28 (70693 views)
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Re: [ROOKIEKOIGUY] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

Tom;

In my humble opinion you would be insane to spend upwards of $2,000 for a commerical bio-filter when you can easily build one yourself that works just as well (if not better) for a fraction of the cost. I own two backyard ponds in Victorville, CA and know several other pond owners located throughout the Inland Empire / High Desert. Only one of them uses a commercial filter; the rest built their own. A homemade bio-filter works great and saves you a lot of cash, which allows you to spend more money on koi or other pond enhancements...

Joseph
http://www.josephandgabby.com/pond

Three ponds, too many koi, and one very angry wife...
www.JoesPonds.com



woodsie
New User

Jun 1, 2005, 12:55 PM

Post #21 of 28 (69004 views)
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What a great piece of information........superb for people like me who have had a pond, but now want to fully understand the process involved before building my new one.
I am building a 4,500 gallon pond and want to construct my own filter. I want to do it as follows :
Pump from pond to vortex, then to 5 chambers with (1) Brushes (2) Coarse Matting (3) Medium Matting (4) Fine Matting (5) Alphagrog - or similar ....then falling back to pond via waterfall. I intend to have a UV in there and wanted to know if you can help with the following questions :
Is this a reasonable filter cycle ?
Where should the UV go ?
How many gallons should the filter be ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated


Sunshine
Koi Kichi

Aug 20, 2005, 1:38 PM

Post #22 of 28 (66978 views)
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SMW1,
Hai, You had written an interesting filter. Please could you post your diagram again as I cannot see it anymore.
Thanks


chingchong
Novice

Aug 21, 2005, 2:35 PM

Post #23 of 28 (66913 views)
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Re: [sunshinekoi] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah..plz do show us the diagram again.im having serious problem with my pond


SMW1
Veteran

Jun 9, 2009, 3:12 PM

Post #24 of 28 (35671 views)
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Re: [chingchong] The Perfect filter [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry guys only just seen this.
I'll see if I can find the diagrams on my Home PC when I get back from work and update the original posts to display them again.


harryluhur
User


Jun 10, 2009, 7:54 PM

Post #25 of 28 (35573 views)
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In Reply To
Sorry guys only just seen this.
I'll see if I can find the diagrams on my Home PC when I get back from work and update the original posts to display them again.



OMG, after 4 years ???

---------------------------------------
Harry Luhur
36 AQUATIC - Indonesia
Professional Pond Builder and Consultant

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