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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone?

 





 


Roger89
Koi Lover


May 16, 2006, 2:47 PM

Post #1 of 16 (1852 views)
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Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? Can't Post
Hi,

I'm wondering is there any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? I'm not sure if the contact surface of the bubbles is more with a bigger air stone because of a smaller bubble.

Do u think there's a difference?


koi@kit
Senior Member


May 16, 2006, 3:23 PM

Post #2 of 16 (1846 views)
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Re: [Roger89] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
hi roger..

i think u r confused.. lets make it like this..

1.dissolved oxygen is the amount of oxygen dat the water can hold..
2.small airstone or big airstone doesnt matter, how much air ur air pump can supply is an issue..
small airpump with big airstone will create less current.. the more the movement of the surface of water the more
the oxygen exchange take place..
3.dissolve oxygen also influence by waste in water.. too much waste will reduce the water's ability to absord oxygen..

i hope it is simple enough for u to understand..Smile.. pls do ask if i m confusing u..

regards
kit


neutokoi
Koi Lover

May 16, 2006, 6:10 PM

Post #3 of 16 (1833 views)
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Re: [Roger89] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Roger,
In addition to what Kit has explained, it is not the size of the airstone that matter, is the size of the 'bubbles' that count. There are special airstone that made of wood that can produce very small bubbles to increase the contact surface, usually this kind of airstone is used in protein skimmer.

Cheers Sly


Roger89
Koi Lover


May 16, 2006, 10:45 PM

Post #4 of 16 (1823 views)
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Re: [neutokoi] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks Kit and neuto for your replies,

kit, does gas exchange happens when the bubbles are in the water? From what u said, I understand that oxygen from air gets dissolved in the water when it contacts with the water surface? Means a stagnant water is less of oxygen and fast moving water(or say water that circles from bottom to top and vise versa) has more oxygen? That means the air pump is just to create a current in the water so that the water moves up together with the bubbles? The bubbles has nothing to do with oxygen absorbtion? Crazy

Neuto, if the size of the bubbles that matters, then should it be smaller air stone is better for a given flow of air? since bigger air stones means less air gushing out the stones thus creating smaller bubbles...

I'm getting 2 different infos here, one is the air pump is to create water current(water goes up to surface and gas exchange happens) and the other is more air surface, the better.

Or is it both of your points are right? ... Crazy


neutokoi
Koi Lover

May 17, 2006, 8:30 AM

Post #5 of 16 (1812 views)
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Re: [Roger89] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi roger,
I think the factor that contribute to the dissolved O2 from airator is :
- the volume of 02/ hour the machine can produce
- size of the bubbles that the airstone can produce
- The contact time of the bubbles with water
- size of the airstone? I don't think it give significant difference, because the volume of the O2 produce by the machine is still the same.

I believe I had some doc about this somewhere in my laptop, but sorry that I have to go out of town for acouple of days, i will try to seach for it next week, in the mean time if you want to make some research, try to seach for this in the area of "protein skimmer" , " disolved CO2 in water plant tank". Hope you can have better idea....

Cheers,
Edo


koi@kit
Senior Member


May 17, 2006, 11:33 AM

Post #6 of 16 (1799 views)
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Re: [Roger89] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
hi roger..

if u ask me, i wud say fine bubble n strong surface movement give more oxygen absorption.. gas exchange happen on water surface..

theres must be a good reason why people make airstone to create fine bubbles, if not might as well use direct pump to hose to supply air.. make sense?

more movement on water surface means more oxygen absorbtion, u r rite stagnant water will have low oxygen absorbtion properties.. dats science..

i hope u r not confuse..

regards..


(This post was edited by koi@kit on May 17, 2006, 11:35 AM)


kloh
Koi Lover

May 17, 2006, 12:12 PM

Post #7 of 16 (1790 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
Now I'm also confused. To my understanding, airstones create many small bubbles that don't create much movement on the water surface, except in a small localized spot where the bubbles reach the surface . If you don't use an airstone, the bubbles will be fewer but bigger, but the big bubbles will create more movement on the water surface over a larger area. So it's a trade off between more bubbles/less movement and less bubbles/more movement, assuming the size of the airpump is the same. So which is better?


koi@kit
Senior Member


May 17, 2006, 1:41 PM

Post #8 of 16 (1785 views)
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Re: [kloh] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
hi kloh..

very good question.. i think ur question is more on air bubbles.. actually smaller /bigger air bubbles is more associate with removing (evaporate) stuffs like chlorine etc etc..than help to dissolve oxygen..

have u heard of people use fine air bubbles for holding tank? u must have read about areation can help reduce / evaporate ammonia in water?....

beside creating movement in pond, air bubbles help remove 'bad' stuffs at the same time create movement on water surface for dissolve oxygen...

i hope u r not confuse now..Smile


kloh
Koi Lover

May 17, 2006, 2:39 PM

Post #9 of 16 (1774 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
koi@kit

I'm even more confused now... HaHa!! Nah, I got it now. More bubbles (ie. use airstone) is better. Use an airstone with a powerful airpump is even better.


Roger89
Koi Lover


May 17, 2006, 3:29 PM

Post #10 of 16 (1773 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
good for u kloh now u got it Smile

Kit, do u know how to calculate how powerful or not my air pump is? It is made in China so I don't know what is says and doesn't have detailed specs. All I know it's a 4.5 W pump. I bought for RM28. I thought of exchanging it for a more powerful one.. it's a 18,000 written on the box cover of another air pump(RM40). Do u think it's worth the change? any idea what does the 18,000 means?


koi@kit
Senior Member


May 17, 2006, 3:47 PM

Post #11 of 16 (1772 views)
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Re: [kloh] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
hi kloh..

hahahah actually u know.. u just want to make sure.. glad u ask too..

cheers..


koi@kit
Senior Member


May 17, 2006, 3:50 PM

Post #12 of 16 (1771 views)
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Re: [Roger89] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
hi roger..

without further information, i dont think i can help u here.. may be pictures will be better..

from my experience, china made airpump will consume more electricity than other make.. so if can check how many lit/hr they can supply air is better.. 18000 can be anything, 18000lit per hour? or even 18000 ml per minute..Unsure

regards


kloh
Koi Lover

May 17, 2006, 4:33 PM

Post #13 of 16 (1766 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
Roger

Sometimes size does matter. If that 18000 pump is bigger, chances are it's more powerful than your existing pump. Could I also suggest that you take your existing pump to the shop to do a "pump shootout" (if your fish can survive during its absence). The winner gets to go home with you.


drcheang
Koi Lover


May 18, 2006, 12:19 PM

Post #14 of 16 (1744 views)
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Re: [kloh] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
Roger,
All those 28-50 RM range airpump is for aquarium. Not for ponds. U need a bigger one which run on motor instead of magnet. It is because it will not pump air if water is more then 3 feet deep. Unless u have a TT then u need a bigger pump. I think u can get a china made for around RM 250. I cannot remember the name or brand anymore. The japan made version of the same spec is about RM 800. I do use a small pump in my filter but not much of a use cos my main filtration is from TT which do not need air pump.
Cheang


thomasysl
Koi Lover

May 18, 2006, 11:35 PM

Post #15 of 16 (1722 views)
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Re: [drcheang] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
It is called RESUN. It does look like Hi-blow...


drcheang
Koi Lover


May 19, 2006, 9:42 AM

Post #16 of 16 (1710 views)
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Re: [thomasysl] Any difference in dissolved O2 with smaller or bigger air stone? [In reply to] Can't Post
Thomas,
U r right. Thanks. Wink
Cheang

 
 
 



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