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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work?

 





 


Jeff Nicholson
New User

Apr 3, 2001, 10:07 PM

Post #1 of 20 (4035 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? Can't Post
My local koi supplier has been selling me bacteria to seed my biofilter and he uses it in his system too. I had no reason to doubt its effectiveness in "jumpstarting" my filter each spring, until now. In purusing online koi information I keep coming across little blurbs about bottled bacteria for seeding biofilters as being "snake oil". What is the true deal on this stuff does seeding actually work and if so what brands or formulations are most effective?


Mark
Koi Kichi

Apr 3, 2001, 11:13 PM

Post #2 of 20 (4034 views)
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Hi
Thank you very much for bring up this topic.
Although I have "jumpstart" filters more than a normal hobbyists, I must confess that the fastest way to get the filter system working is by "borrowing" some media from another hobbyist's filter system and put them into yours. You will be amazed by the speed in which your filter system colonises.

Ok, coming to your question on the type of "OFF the Shelves" seeding stuff for new filter system. There is none. Living bac. bottled for sale cannot be found on a normal display shelves. This is because they will not live for more than 48 hours. Should you find a manufacturer or lab that supplies this, after buying it you must empty the "stuff" into the filter system. This stuff must be bottled in a dark opaque container and must not be exposed to sun. Empty the "stuff" immediately into the filter box upon delivery/transportation. As far as I know, living bac. are not easily available and must be ordered in advance. If this be the case, then what are those that are sold of the shelf? First of all, there is no such thing as a living good bac. encapped in a bottle and sold on a shelf as I mentioned earlier. Instead they are prepared "stuff" when added into a filter box, they bind most part of the ammonia and/or nitrites before returning the "filtered" water back to the pond. This encourages the good bac. to produce and multiply quickly in the filter system and for best result, I recommend that you aerate the filter system.

There are however 2 types of such "stuff" available on the shelf - wet and dry. In my opinion, the wet type seems to gives a better result as compared to the 'dry' type. This is based on my experience. The lousy experience I had with wet is they need to be stored in cool temperature (<15C) otherwise they become a bottle of "junk" and cannot be used again. Another consumer point of dislike is that they are sold in big bottle and after awhile, most hobbyists maybe unsure of the effectiveness of the "stuff".

Coming to the brands, I tried many types in Singapore and UK, both the cheap and costly ones produce the same result.

Hope this help.

(This post was edited by Mark Richman on Mar 4, 2001, 3:00 PM)


chong
Koi Lover

Apr 6, 2001, 7:40 AM

Post #3 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear Mark ,

You mentioned on the "borrowing" of bacteria . How you do it ?

1)Is it by tranferring the whole bac colonized filter media [brush or mat ] and put into your new filter ?

2) Or is by just getting the water & "brown color particles" from the filter media ?

Regards


Mark
Koi Kichi

Apr 6, 2001, 8:17 AM

Post #4 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
A safer way is to take the colonised filter media and put them into yours.

Hope this helps.


Ben
Koi Lover

Apr 7, 2001, 11:08 AM

Post #5 of 20 (4034 views)
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Hi Mark,

While taking the filter media from others' pond, how sure are you that the "bad elements" from others' pond is not brought into yours.


Mark
Koi Kichi

Apr 8, 2001, 12:23 AM

Post #6 of 20 (4034 views)
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Hi Ben
The bad bugs will be there irregardless of where those healthy colonized media are taken.
To overcome the problems, I recommend 3 rounds of action for the first 3 weeks as follow:
Week 1 - Since pond and filter are new, I will keep min. stock and add 0.3% salt. Most common bad bugs will be killed at this percentage.
Week 2 - Water will becomes green(algae all over) after the 1st week. Change 50% water and maintains the 0.3% salt for another week.
Week 3 - By this time, your filter media would have colonised at least 70 to 80% with the "borrowed" colonized media and lots of algae will be "trapped" in the media and especially in the settlement chambers. Move the the media out and flush all remaining water out of the filter box. Change 50% water of your pond. Move back the media and 'plug' back the system.

Tips - Do not wash your filter box and media.

You should begin to see the water getting clearer each day from now onwards.

Hope this helps.


(This post was edited by Mark Richman on Jul 4, 2001, 2:00 PM)


Jeff Nicholson
New User

Apr 8, 2001, 12:36 AM

Post #7 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Mark,
Thank you for your thorough response to my question regarding filter seeding products. Could you direct me to anything documented on research done in regard to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of these products. My local supplier disagrees with you that the bacteria cannot live in a sealed bottle, he says the bacteria just do not grow or reproduce but are just in a dormant state. Of course he is SELLING me this stuff, but it would be nice to have the facts. If you know of any links to information that would prove him wrong that would be great. I live in maryland ,USA and in the spring after a cold winter finding filter media from someone elses active filter is not that easy since we all are trying to get our filters started.


(This post was edited by Jeff Nicholson on Aug 4, 2001, 2:00 PM)


dennis yu
New User

Apr 8, 2001, 10:56 AM

Post #8 of 20 (4034 views)
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Mark, does the suggestion " Tips - Do not wash your filter box and media." apply to the fibre filter that use the filter mat only?

Dennis YU


Ben
Koi Lover

Apr 8, 2001, 11:51 AM

Post #9 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Dennis,

Bio filter and trickle filter should not be wash unless it is really necessary for reason such as clog. You can of course clean your settlement as much as you wish.


Mark
Koi Kichi

Apr 9, 2001, 7:39 AM

Post #10 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Jeff Nicholson,
Try calling or fax this guy called Bob Friedman and he will have a whole load of articles to tell you why his company never scoop to telling you that live bugs live in containers.

His contact:
Enviro-Reps International
515 Calle San Pablo
Camarillo, CA - 93012
TEL: 805-383-4422 FAX: 805-383-4421


Duong Cung
Koi Lover

Apr 14, 2001, 4:15 PM

Post #11 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
SALT TO POND? It would surely kill the bad bacteria, but it will ALSO kill the good bacteria wouldn't it? Adding salt to pond maybe good if at a low percentage because it helps better gill function for the fish; and also good for medicating sick fish, but putting it permenantly is a bad idea because salt kills everything: bacteria (both good AND bad), algea, and plants in your pond. rethink before you add salt to your pond.


Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Jun 12, 2001, 7:01 AM

Post #12 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear Biofilter Jumpstarters

Recently I bought a bottle of biofilter seeder claiming to contain ammonia eating, nitrite eating, protein eating organisms, called Profil which requires you to dilute the solution with tap water then to place the diluted solution in a spray container and spray the solution over the surface of the pond.

I am just extremely curious as to why this ritual of spraying over the surface of the water is necessary. Most biozyme preparations just ask to you pour it into the filter box.

Is this the latest discovery in bio-seeding? Just as the trickle tower is the latest discovery in biological filtering systems? Perhaps spraying adds oxygen to the seeders. I don't know.

I am also curious as to why the labels on these bottles keep claiming to have beneficial organisms when in actual fact such organisms cannot last more than 48 hours in the bottle. Isn't there any law against false advertising?

Any comments are most appreciated.

Best regards

Joshua


denniskweh
Koi Lover

Jun 12, 2001, 7:32 AM

Post #13 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
hi Joshua
The brand of bacteria seeding called Cycle from Canada gave a guranttee of the bacteria lifespan in the bottle of minimum two years when it is sealed. When it is opened, the bottle needs to be refreigerated. It is in liquid form and claimed to contain 500 billion bacteria in a capful.

Dennis


Mark
Koi Kichi

Jun 13, 2001, 1:59 AM

Post #14 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi All
Please tell me the brand and type of "helper" that says that "living bacteria" is living in the bottles/containers. I would love to bring them to lab. and have them tested for all to benefit. Since we are here to help and assist in the hobby, I will not want to affect anybody who are in this business by publishing the result of my findings. Result will therefore be given upon "private request".

If label claims that "it grow" or "help to grow" or "encourage the growth", then I am not interested to try.

(This post was edited by Mark Richman on Dec 6, 2001, 3:00 PM)


Mark
Koi Kichi

Jun 14, 2001, 2:00 AM

Post #15 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi
Amongst those that were tested previously:
1. *xxxabc (liquid form from abc Company)
2. *xyx

Regards.
-------------------------------------------
*Note: Brand names and Manufacturer names omitted upon requests from a no. of email rec'd today.

(This post was edited by Mark Richman on Jan 6, 2002, 3:00 PM)


fhkhew
New User

Jun 14, 2001, 3:37 AM

Post #16 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Mark:
Would apprecite it if you could email a copy of your test findings for my information only (both Bio-Bacta and Ocean Free 8000).

My email address: fhkhew@pacific.net.sg

Thank you very much.

Regards
-fhkhew


Mark
Koi Kichi

Jun 14, 2001, 9:29 AM

Post #17 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Email rec'd from Mr.namexxx and my reply to him is posted here for all to benefit.

From: "namexxx@gdc.com" <Namexxx@gdc.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:06 PM
To: "markrichman@lycosasia.com" <markrichman@lycosasia.com>
Subject: Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work?

Any idea whether the Biozyme $30 in the market that claim to be able to reduce Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate etc, are they work? or by any chances that you have tested before?

<Mark> All biozyme binds ammonia and nitrites. Unfortunatly it don't binds nitrates. It seems to me that some are more effective than others. I have no quarrel about products that claim that they are able or will bind ammonia and nitrites present in the pond. It is in my humble findings that not all ammonia and nitrites will be bound using these product but are reduced to a small level to feed your filter bugs. This gives your filter a chance to grow the good bugs.

Thanks for sharing & your efforts in perform the lab testing. Actually I must say thanks to all your posting especially the one Re: "Wet & Dry Filtration System" it did work for me and it certainly beneficial to lots of koi hobbyist out there.

<Mark> Thank you for your feedback and encouragement. We should also thanks the webmaster of MKC for allowing us to help one another at the forum. I am no expert and I am also learning from you guys at the forum.

Good luck.


denniskweh
Koi Lover

Jun 14, 2001, 10:14 AM

Post #18 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
hi
My PH plunged 4.5 yesterday althuogh the water is crystal clear and I stopped feeding for three days. I quickly used baking soda to bring it up to 7.0. Apparently the fishes are none the worse for it. Basing on the looks only, the water is cystal clear.
Can kois tolerate PH of 4.5? What are the dangers of it?

Thanks again especially to Mark.
Dennis


denniskweh
Koi Lover

Jun 14, 2001, 1:19 PM

Post #19 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
another question - will salt level at 0.3% kill good bacteria as well as bad ones? Can the reason for my PH at 4.5 is the result of me increasing my salt level from 0.17% in recent week to 0.3% now? If the present salt level of 0.3% is not good to mature the filter box, should I revert back to 0.17% level?

Thanks in advance
Dennis




Mark
Koi Kichi

Jun 15, 2001, 6:35 AM

Post #20 of 20 (4034 views)
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Do biofilter bacteria seeding products really work? [In reply to] Can't Post
Dennis
You have just hit the dangerous zone.

 
 
 



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