Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality: Filter Cleaning

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Filter Cleaning

SMW1
Koi Kichi

Oct 6, 2001, 11:27 AM

Post #1 of 15 (2684 views)
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Hi all,

I have a question. We have recently built a 3000gal pond with a three segment filter.

Until reading all the posts in this forum (and I tell you you guys/girls are teaching me loads). I thought I knew a fair bit about keeping a pond. I had no idea that water changing was something that should be done every now and again.

My question is this :
At present the pond water has been present for 5 weeks. The filter system has been running for the last 3. The water is very cloudy (like pea soup), but all levels of PH, Amonia and nitrate seem ok (according to interpet tester). Do I need to change 20% of my water every weekend ?. If so when refilling with tap water is it best to hose the water into the filter or directly into the pond ?.

When is the best time to add the chloride removal solution ?

What will water changing do for my pond and koi ?

PS. Thanks to everyone who has given me loads of help already (without even knowing it). Keep up the good work.

Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Oct 6, 2001, 1:27 PM

Post #2 of 15 (2684 views)
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Hi SMW1

Considering your water is pea soup you should try to change 20% of your water every weekend to reduce the level of nitrates which contributes to the growth of green algae.

Never add tap water directly to the filter as the chlorine in the water was formulated to kill bacteria. Unfortunately Mr Chlorine can't differentiate between good, bad and ugly bugs so it will destroy the good bacteria in your bio-filter as well. You can add tap water directly into the pond AFTER you have added anti-chlorine into the existing water. Remember to do so everytime you add tap water.

Changing water regularly removes toxins from your system, especially nitrates by diluting their concentration to tolerable amounts. If your bio-filter is working well, the good bugs (anaerobic bacteria) will automatically do a good job of removing ammonia and nitrites. Changing water also reduces DOC (dissolved organic compounds) that causes foamy water.

How often you change water will depend on what your regular water tests show. If the parameters are good, you need to change water less frequently.

Hey, I got all that from this forum and I am still learning tons from the sifus here.

Smile

Best regards

Joshua

SMW1
Koi Kichi

Oct 7, 2001, 6:08 AM

Post #3 of 15 (2684 views)
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Excellent, thanks for the info.

I'm not sure if my filter has actually kicked i yet as the pond is only a few weeks old. Although I think that its just starting to work now as the water is clearing very slightly. However I am stating to notice a little foaming from the waterfall. So I'll change 20% of the water this weekend. After I've tested the water for the necessary's.

Will chaning 20% clear the water as well ? or just reduce the posions ?

Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Oct 7, 2001, 11:13 AM

Post #4 of 15 (2684 views)
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Hi SMW1

Regular change of water is like adding fresh blood to a human body. It lowers down the concentration of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and makes the fish feel good. It won't remove the toxins completely, but it helps create a more comfortable environment, just like getting out from a stuffy room into the cool evening breeze outdoors. Or winding down car window when your friend lets out gas in the car! [biggrin]

It should also help to clear the water of the algae through time.

You should try not to change more than 50% of water at any one time so as not to cause any great shock to the fish especially PH changes.

Happy koi-ing!

Best regards
[biggrin]
Josh

(This post was edited by Joshua Lee on Jun 10, 2001, 2:00 PM)

SMW1
Koi Kichi

Oct 7, 2001, 2:02 PM

Post #5 of 15 (2684 views)
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Thanks Joshua,
I have changed 20% of the water and the koi seem ok with that. There is still a little foaming from the waterfall but I'll give it a couple of days for the new water to settle in and see if the foam clears.
I have heard talks in this forum about clay (cat litter). I'm not sure if you guys were just mucking around, so I'm gonna ask this.
Can I really add Cat litter to my pond to stop the foaming ?. Also I imagine that I have to get a scent freeversion of cat litter am I right or will any do ?.

Also how and when should I use pond salt. I bought some today but I'm not sure why. Can both salt and clay help reduce my nitrites etc ?

Stuart

(This post was edited by SMW1 on Jul 10, 2001, 2:00 PM)

SMW1
Koi Kichi

Oct 7, 2001, 9:00 PM

Post #6 of 15 (2684 views)
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Hi All / Joshua,

As per your instructions I have change about 15 - 20% of the water. I added the correct amount of solution to remove the chloride etc. The foaming has now completely stopped - Thanks Joshua.

However, I have a problem (I think). The water is allot clearer now as my bio filter kicked in about a day ago (before water change). Now I can see my babies again I have noticed that a few of them are flashing every couple of minutes. By this I mean it looks as though they are trying to rub their sides on the bottom of the pond.
I can not tell you how long they have been doing this as before today the water was very misty and I was unable to tell.

After the water change I did some tests results are as follows: PH 8.5, Nitrite 0.1 - 0.25 mg/ltr, Nitrate 10 - 25 mg/ltr & Ammonia 0.1. I can not give exact messurements as I am using an inerpet pond test kit and can only go by the colour chart included in it.

The fish are still eating normally. Shall I salt my pond or have I given signs of an obvious reason they are doing this ?

Please help me I'm scared !!!!

Stuart

dttk
Senior Member

Oct 8, 2001, 1:40 AM

Post #7 of 15 (2684 views)
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Hi SMW1, flashing occurs when there koi are irritated by parasites or pH fluctuations. It's good to stablize your pH with pH buffers like shells or baking soda. Now's the time to add salt into your pond to make a 0.3% concentration to kill some parasites. 1kg of rock salt into 1000L or 222gal of water raises the salinity by 0.1%. Observe the koi and reduce water changes if other water parameters remain good. Maintain at this salinity for not more than 2 weeks and as water changes are done, the salinity decreases. You may wish to maintain salinity at 0.1% for as long as required. Some plants are affected by salt. The bacteria in the filter will not. Hope the above helps. Smile

SMW1
Koi Kichi

Oct 8, 2001, 7:22 AM

Post #8 of 15 (2684 views)
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ok thanks,
I added about 1kg of salt last night, my pond is about 2300 gallons. So I need to add another 9kg of salt. This seems an awful lot is this right ?

Is there any other treatment I can buy to add aswell or will salting do the trick ?

Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Oct 8, 2001, 1:14 PM

Post #9 of 15 (2684 views)
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Hi SMW1

That's right, you should add another 9 kg to make 0.3% salt solution. You may want to add the other 9 kg gradually over a few days and maintain for two weeks as our good DTTK says. 0.3% salt solution will cure most general ailments and it is safe. Other trickier treatments are potassium permanganate (PP bombing) or anti-biotic jabs but plain old salt will do the trick most of the time. Salt in the water also help the koi to withstand nitrite poisoning the pond.

In the meantime keep an eye on the PH level. PH fluctuations stresses the fish so you need a PH buffer like coral chips or oyster shells in your filter box which you can get in any ol' acquarium shop. Without this buffer, the PH tend to fluctuate beyong the ph 7 to 9 range which would make the fish feel like going through a dizzy roller coaster ride at Disneyland.

Cheers and enjoy your babes! Those beauties in the water sure take our breath away. Seeing them swim merrily like a ballet dancer sure makes all the hassle worthwhile.

Best regards
Smile

Josh

SMW1
Koi Kichi

Oct 9, 2001, 7:06 AM

Post #10 of 15 (2684 views)
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Thanks Joshua / dttk,

I have added about 6kg of salt so far. I added about 1kg every three hours to gradually build up to the 0.3%. Added another 1kg this morning before coming into work and it looks as though this may already have done the trick. I can't see any flashing of the koi, but I will monitor them more closely tonight.

I understand that salt in the water help to build up the koi's immune system by helping the fish to generate more mucus that cover their scales, have I got this right ?

Also, Do I need to reduce feeding during this time ?, will the salt alter their feeding requirements or should I carry on feeding as normal. At present I am only feeding them twice a day (not too much either) as I am trying to tame them by keeping them a little hungry.

I really appreciate your help guys, maybe one day I'll be able to offer something back, but until then all I can offer is my gratitude.
Thanks

Stuart

Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Oct 9, 2001, 1:07 PM

Post #11 of 15 (2684 views)
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Hi Stuart

Glad to know you're seeing results. The 0.3% salt solution is actually a natural antibiotic against pathogens and reduces the effect of nitrite poisoning. I am not sure if it helps build the protective mucus around the koi's body. Just like antibiotics too much over a prolonged period is not good as well as the pathogens will build a resistance to the salt and end up being stronger and more deadly. So, once the fish are OK you don't have to use salt in the pond. But I hear a low 0.1% concentration is OK for longer periods.

You should feed the fish very little during treatment or not at all, since koi live very comfortably off their fat resources for up to ten days with no ill-effects and the advantage of not feeding is that very little wastes are produced and this makes the water quality really good for koi recuperation and recovery. Besides that, the pea soup condition in the water means it contains algae which is very good nutrition for the koi.

So, do keep that food container lid closed, or feed very little. I guess our kindly human nature just can't resist it when the koi cuties open their mouths begging for food at the water's edge.

Anyway, all the best and happy koi keeping.

Best regards

Smile

Josh

SMW1
Koi Kichi

Oct 9, 2001, 5:21 PM

Post #12 of 15 (2684 views)
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Thanks Joshua. Just one last thing then I'll keep quiet for a while.

How long should I go before chaning the water to rid the salt, or do I get rid of it another way ?.

If I need to change the water, what percentage do I change to get rid of the salt.

Not sure if this helps but I live in London, England so the tap water over here may be very different from everywhere else.

I think this is what caused the flashing(of the koi) in the first place.

Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Oct 10, 2001, 10:13 AM

Post #13 of 15 (2684 views)
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Hi Stuart

How are you fish doing? Sorry, my math got tangled up. Actually your pond is 2300 imperial gallons which works out to be 10,465 litres so 10 kg only makes 0.1% salt solution (10,000 litres of water weighs 10,000 kg so 10 kg salt on 10,000 kg of water makes just 0.1% solution). You'll have to triple to 30 kg on a 10,000 litre pond to make 0.3%. It's a lot of salt but that's what it takes to kill the bugs effectively.

You should keep the salt solution at 0.3% for two weeks and then change water 40% twice (over a few days) to bring it down to 0.1% and then you can maintain that as long as you like or just let it dwindle to zero by changing 20% a week without adding salt.

I am not sure about London water, but if you add anti-chlorine, that should get rid of the chlorine in the London tap water as well and make it safe for your fish.

Bentonite Clay seems to have a lot of benefits for the fish and clears foamy water but some koi just don't like the taste of it! Apparently it is good for humans too but it takes a bit of conditioning for koi to get used to it. I guess it is a bit like cod liver oil. I used to hate it!

Cheers!

Smile

Josh

SMW1
Koi Kichi

Oct 10, 2001, 11:00 AM

Post #14 of 15 (2684 views)
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Looks like I'll have to buy anothe r2 x 10kg bags of pond salt then Wink

.

Thanks Joshua. I'll post the results in a few weeks and let you know the stat's i.e. (x losses, x wounded, x survivors :P
)

tracydr
Koi Lover

Oct 15, 2001, 2:51 AM

Post #15 of 15 (2684 views)
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I have good and bad news. The good news is my new UV/mech/bio filter kicked in and I can actually see the bottom of my pond clearly, even at the 5 foot end.The foam is almost gone. The fish look great except their now afraid of feeding when I watch, guess it's the first time they've been able to see me in awhile.
The bad news is my one pump prefilter was almost completely clogged with scales. So where did this come from and should I be concerned? Is it just an occurence from when they were sick or do they shed on a regular basis like snakes or something. I know this sounds ****** but it sure has me worried. The fish look good, they're active, moving, eating and I can't tell who lost the scales. It has to be one of my bigger (2 footers) ones because they are the only ones with big shiny white scales. Any suggestions or answer to my questions?

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