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Green pea soup like water !

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wchuasc
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 10:19 AM

Post #1 of 44 (2652 views)
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Green pea soup like water !	Can't Post

HELP ! I am having murky green pea soup water ! My new pond is into its 3rd week since I introduced brand new bio-medium into the pond.

The pond is a 4,000 litre pond using a simple 3 chamber filter chambers consisting of 1)"The Answer" in the first chamber, 2) 4 x 7kgs of Oyster Shells, 6 x 7kgs of Zeolite, Biomats, 2 Airstones, 4kgs of Biohome sintered glass, 3 bags of biorings, and 4kgs of lava rock in the second "Bio" chamber, 3) the "clean water" chamber with the return pump to the pond, and the water is returned via a waterfall, a jet, and a venturi. At the same time, there is a airblower which blows air thru a air curtain providing plenty of aeration for the pond. I add dry bacteria every 6 days. PH has gone from 9, 3 weeks ago to 8.1 this morning. There are 10 kois in the pond, 4 are about 45 to 50cm, and 6 are young ones around 20 to 30cm.

Now my problem is that the pond water is turning murky green. The murky water started to show about 5 days ago and has gotten worse since, and I do spot algae starting to grow along the walls of the pond. I understand that it is a normal phenomenon for this to happen to a new immature pond, but this does not allow me to enjoy my koi's. I am trying my darndest to prevent too much direct sunlight into the pond too. How can I clear up this murky pea soup water ? I just added Bacta-pur's KLEAR and NUTRIPACK to the bio filter last evening hoping that it will clear the water but no such luck !

I hope some of the experienced members here can provide me the invaluable advice to end my pea soup nightmare which has just begun. Thank you in advance for your kind advice and consideration !

(This post was edited by wchuasc on May 29, 2002, 10:37 AM)

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

May 29, 2002, 1:08 PM

Post #2 of 44 (2642 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Chua

Have you checked your water parameters lately? Are they OK? I am sure your nitrate reading will be quite high given the pea soup water! Cool

Let us know the readings, OK? You are now aware that an immature filter may cause green water so worry not, if your water readings are good ie. ammonia 0, nitrite 0, and nitrate not too high eg less than 25mg/l than you are fine. Your kois are OK too just that as you said, you can't enjoy them! Cool

Give your filter some time to settle down and the good bugs will naturally do its work. In the meantime, you can change about 30-50% of the water and feed less.

If I may say, you seem to have too many media in your second chamber and good bugs need some space to thrive! I suggest you take the oyster shells and put them in the 3rd clean water chamber. You can maintain the bio-mats, bio-home and sintered glass in the 2nd chamber. Zeolite is only temporary to absorb ammonia when your filter is still immature. Once everything is OK, remove it from the filter. I also suggest you remove the lava rocks.

All the best!

Johnson

KevKoi
Member

May 29, 2002, 1:30 PM

Post #3 of 44 (2640 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Put a UV steriliser on ur return pump. Water will clear from pea soup to crystal clear in a week..... That said, u got to check the Ammonia, Nitrite and possibly nitrate levels regularly too. Don't let the clear water fool you..... one of the follys of using the UV is that you get complacent. :)

If you don't do the uv way, u've got to tough it out.... sometimes up to 6months (had a friend with green water for almost 9months!) b4 things improve. A TT will help speed up the process but it'll still take weeks.... he he he... one of the hard times of pond keeping.

patrick123
Koi Kichi

May 29, 2002, 2:51 PM

Post #4 of 44 (2634 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Wchuasc,

Kevkoi is right. The green water is due to Nitrate in your water (this is the food source for algae along with strong sunlight).

As a lot of people will agree, Trickle Tower (TT) will get rid of nitrate and hence deprive the food source for algae to thrive. It depends on the construction of the TT, it may take many weeks for the TT to mature. Meanwhile, you are stuck with green water.

To get rid of green water immediately, UV is the only solution. For a pond of your size, it should clear up in less than 2-3 days (mine was cleared in 1 day).

You can always switch off the UV after your TT and biofilter are matured.

Cheers,
Patrick

TonyG
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 4:53 PM

Post #5 of 44 (2628 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi

As all the expert have mentioned, nitrate is the culprit. Check your water para and confirm it and do post the readings here. As johnson says, your biofilter is crowded, take johnson advise and for me, i will take out the zeolite too (never like this stuff Unsure

). Try to feed you koi two days once and only once per time. You will see improvement for it will helps your filter to mature faster without overworking it. If possible add in a TT.

Tony

QBW1
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 8:04 PM

Post #6 of 44 (2624 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

You can use a UV steriliser to tie throught this period while your bio-filter is kicking in. My UV steriliser is hardly use now (I only ON it 4 hrs/week), I can lend it to you. If interetsed, please call my mobile at 98383889.

Don't worry, green water is common and your kois are actually enjoying themselves in the green water. Smile

wchuasc
Koi Lover

May 29, 2002, 9:24 PM

Post #7 of 44 (2615 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Guys, thank you for your kind advice and comments and offers of help. Having read through each and every reply considerably, I think I will hack it the natural way - letting the pond's biological process work by itself. I will make a study of the water in terms of Amonia, Nitrates etc. as soon as I buy the equipment to perform such tests as all I have now is a electronic PH reader ! Maybe you guys can advice me on which brands of readers and test kits to buy (hopefully electronic ones ! I am super lazy !!! :))

To speed up the process, I am now going to be adding in bacteria once every 3 days instead of 6 days until I see a marked improvement in water quality (this was advice given to me by my friendly koi dealer friend) and asked me NOT to change water for the time being for 7 days.

With regards to feeding less, my koi's seem to be eating a lot more today and I am forced to put in a lot more food than normal ! I feed my koi's twice a day - one in the morning at 8.15am and once in the evening around 6.45pm ! Should I cut down on the feeding despite the koi's healthy appetite ?

Of course, my decision to go "au natural" with my pond may be reversed depending on my patience level ! Afterall, it is all so that I can see my precious koi's once again (now only during feeding time !)!

SMW1
Koi Kichi

May 30, 2002, 12:50 AM

Post #8 of 44 (2601 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,

However tempting it may be keep the feeding to a minimum if you want the water to clear quickly. the more food you put in the long it will take to clear.

Stuart

TonyG
Koi Lover

May 30, 2002, 8:18 AM

Post #9 of 44 (2589 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Agree with Stuart, resist your temptation if you want to see results, otherwise you have to leave with pea soup for much longer and then you may be tempted to used chemical to clear the water Unsure

. Patience is the key word.

Tony

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

May 30, 2002, 11:46 AM

Post #10 of 44 (2574 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi chua

I am not sure if the market sells electronic ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tester! And even if there are such products, it would be rather expensive, I think! Crazy

You can get from reputable aquarium shops Tetra or Azoo testers for the main four easily. Also, as mentioned, you have to go slow on the feeding routine! Hard to resist, I know but otherwise, it will take much longer for the water to clear! Unsure

I think it would be wise if you change some water as I recommended earlier to help reduce the nitrates too! Let us know your readings soon!

Rgds

Johnson

SMW1
Koi Kichi

May 30, 2002, 1:57 PM

Post #11 of 44 (2560 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just for info, electronic testers for all the main tests are available in one single unit. This covers ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, PH, KH, salt, DO. But you ar right to think that this electronic test kit comes with a high price. These are currently available in the UK for around �200 - �400 depending on the model.

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

May 30, 2002, 3:18 PM

Post #12 of 44 (2551 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Stuart for the quick info! Well, there you go Chua, they are available but it costs a bomb to purchase it! So better go for the manual ones, huh!! Cool

Much, much cheaper but have to do some work, lah! Smile

Rgds

Johnson

wchuasc
Koi Lover

May 31, 2002, 3:06 PM

Post #13 of 44 (2528 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Guys, I went out and bought the testing kit already (TetraTest 5 in 1), wah lau eh ! I did not know litmus paper cost so much !!! Tongue

So here are the results Shocked

PH - 8, KH - 3, NO3 - 100mg/l, NO2 - 5mg/l, GH - 16 ! Crazy

I guess I am quite a failure at science and do NOT know what this stuff all means except for PH !!! Anyway, I just changed 25% of the water, and will be adding bacteria in (I am preparing the bacteria now in a pail aerated with a airstone as I write this).

Sad news though, I bought a kujaku around 25cm long from Max Koi Farm over the weekend, and the fish jumped out of the pond last night and died ... sigh !!! Can someone tell me if fish jumping is any warning sign I should heed ??? I would die if I lost anymore Koi's Frown

Once again, I must thank each and everyone here for your kind suggestions, advice, offers of help, and patience ! May God bless everyone here ! Thanks !

QBW1
Koi Lover

Jun 1, 2002, 12:28 AM

Post #14 of 44 (2511 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

It is regreted to hear that you koi jump out of the pond last night. I apolodise for not warning you earlier. Pirate

Green water actually contains millions of tiny floating algae, and it consumes Oxygen at night. So the Oxygen level can be very low during the night time. Hence, it is critical to make sure enough areation in your pond especially during night time.

Tried to call you this morning, but your handphone is OFF. Please do call me if you changed your mind and decided to borrow UV filter from me. Smile

KevKoi
Member

Jun 1, 2002, 9:16 AM

Post #15 of 44 (2497 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ur Nitrate level reads pretty high (not enough to kill fish but it's not good maintaining at that level.). U're nitrite level is a little bit disturbing. 5ppm? U sure it's not 0.5ppm? U should be getting pretty sick fishes if it's really that high.... I think u misread. In any case, frequent water changes would be necessary..... EVEN with the UV. In may cases, the UV might mislead you to think that the water is good (because it will look crystal clear once you put it on.), when it is not. I'd suggest you do water changes regularly until you read 0ppm for Nitrite. I've just got this feeling that your pond is not cycled yet and u've added too many fishes....... folly of too many new fish keeper. Frown

wchuasc
Koi Lover

Jun 1, 2002, 11:14 AM

Post #16 of 44 (2491 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Guys, need your advice on this matter ! I am thinking of creating a PP bomb to clear up the green water ! I read through this forum extensively and found a thread by Doc Conrad and Doc Johnson on PP bombs which says that the PP bomb not only helps to clear up the water, but is also good for kois. However, I am not sure how much PP and Hydrogen Peroxide to add to my 4,000 litre pond !!! Tongue

Can someone tell me how much I should of PP and how much Hydrogen peroxide to add to ensure that my koi's are safe ? Also, how to add it !!! Blush

Thanks for your kind help n advice in advance !!!! Cool

QBW1
Koi Lover

Jun 1, 2002, 4:07 PM

Post #17 of 44 (2479 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, KevKoi,

I hope you don't get me wrong. Wink

I am not promoting UV filter as a mean for for good water management. I think we all agreed that clear water is not equal to good water. The UV filter is just one of the quick way to get us out from the situation when green water attack.

Happy Koi Keeping !

Regards,

SMW1
Koi Kichi

Jun 1, 2002, 4:24 PM

Post #18 of 44 (2478 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi all,

Sorry but I feel I must butt in here.

Wchuasc, there is only one reason that you have green water and that's high nitrates. Your filter is either 1) not matured yet 2) not big enough for your pond or 3) you are overstocked.

All this talk about adding chemicals, getting UV lamps and PP bombing the pond just to get rid of the green water is very fustrating.

Your problem is not green water its high nitrates, green water is just a side effect of this. There is no point in trying to just clear the water. You need to reduce your nitrates.

Please start working on the filtration rather than the clarity of the water.

Remeber Clear water is just a bonus. But Clear water and dead koi is something we can all do without.

Stuart

QBW1
Koi Lover

Jun 1, 2002, 4:31 PM

Post #19 of 44 (2478 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Vincent,

From my experience on PP for Algae control. It is very effective in killing algae on the wall and bottom of the pond, but almost no visible effect on floating algae. In other words, for the few PP bombs that I tried on green water, no observable improvement on the situation. But it did killed all the algae on the wall.

I know many forum friends here don't agree on PP bomb as a regular water treatment. I do use PP as part of my regular water management. At the early stage, the water did get clearer after each PP treatment. But now because water is already pretty clear, I can't ready see any different.

BTW, PP treatment can be dangerous if over dose. I did kill 2 kois when doing PP treatment on them. Blush

May be you should get a friend with PP experience to help you going throught your 1st PP treatment.

Happy Kois Keeping !

KevKoi
Member

Jun 1, 2002, 11:04 PM

Post #20 of 44 (2471 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I get edgy when you talk about PP bombs to clear out green water. If there's no disease, u shouldn't really take out the 'BOMB'. I think the bomb method is really the 'shoot them all and then sort them out' option. If you do do your PP bomb, u have to switch off your filter or you risk mucking up your whole filter. If you do a pp bomb incorrectly, you get dead fish in 3minutes. If you do it without extra aeration, u might get gasping fish and sick fish later. Just too many things can go wrong with the PP bomb.

I'd much rather you use the UV option to 'clear your water'..... but like Stuart says, ur problems is NOT the green water. It's your filter not matured, or you have too many fish your filter can't cope. If you don't solve those problems first (by increasing your filter surface area or adding a TT......Constantly dosing the pond with so-called-bacteria I don't find of much use and quite a waste of money in the long run.), ur water will never be clear without the UV, and your fish will not be healthy. (5ppm Nitrites is REALLY high... Do you see red streaky fins on your fish?)

Well, if the green water is bugging you, get a UV to clear it out for now, but fix the root of the problem at the same time too.

QBW1
Koi Lover

Jun 2, 2002, 12:49 AM

Post #21 of 44 (2464 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agreed with Kevs and I should not encourage Vincent in anyway for trying out on PP bomb unless with disease.

Mine is a special case. I set up these 2 years as my exploring period for Kois hobby (so far, 1 year had passed, and I seems to like it). Tongue

I will try out any idea (good or bad) that I come across, hoping to gain enough feeling on each idea before investing more money in this hobby. Cool

Kev and other seniors in these forum, had learn much from each of you. Of course, there are much more to be learn. Thanks ! Smile

wchuasc
Koi Lover

Jun 2, 2002, 10:08 PM

Post #22 of 44 (2450 views)
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Re: [KevKoi] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Everyone, once again thanks for putting up with me ! Anyway, I have gone about changing (15% to 20%) water for the past few days and have cut the feedings down to one feeding session a day as adviced and things have turned for the better Smile

! I see that the water is slowly but surely clearing up, and my latest readings are as follows - NO3 - 25mg/l, NO2 - 0.5mg/l, GH - 10, KH -3, PH - 7.8. I must thank each and everyone here for their patience in helping me sort out this problem and I thank you from the bottom of my heart ! Cool

I hope this improvement continues and I hope to be able to snap a few pictures to post for eveyone to see soon !

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Jun 3, 2002, 10:18 AM

Post #23 of 44 (2435 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi chua

Good to see the nitrates reading dropping. Cool

I sure did not see any readings for ammonia! Crazy

Your nitrite reading is still not too good! Must keep it to 0 at all times! That tells me that your filter system has yet to totally settle down.

I agree with Stuart and Kev that you should stay away from PP bombing! This is not the right method to clear a green pond! Even if you have detected some diseases, PP bombing may not always be the best option unless you know exactly what to do. The key word here is 'exactly'!! An overdose, will kill your kois. It is also harmful to humans if wrongly handled! PP solution when it comes into contact with the eye, will cause blindness and on the skin, it will have a burning sensation!

The issue here is the maturity of your filter system. It is better to have green water and kois are alive than clear water and dead kois! Crazy

You need to be patient, green water means a lot of nitrates in the water. You can get that cleared up either by using UV as suggested (short term) or make a TT filter (long term). There is a wonderful article on TT on the main page of this website. I suggest you read it. Smile

Continue to do daily water test until your readings are all OK. For the moment, you can leave out the GH, and KH tests. Just get the ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH test for now.

Good luck.

Note: Your KH should ideally be 4 and above.

Johnson

patrick123
Koi Kichi

Jun 3, 2002, 6:36 PM

Post #24 of 44 (2416 views)
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Re: [wchuasc] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Chua,

Like all the other have mentioned, there is no way you can get rid of nitrate through PP bomb. If you are not careful in isolating your filter when you bomb the pond, you may have to start from ground zero again and start cultivating the bacterial from scratch.

If you can borrow some good bacteria from some reliable source (may be a reliable fish dealer), it will help to speed up the time it takes for your filter to mature. Unfortunately I'm overseas and the material I have in my FG box is not too mature either.

As for the green water, you must have a lot of patience. I waited for about 2 months and finally given up and bought a UV.

BTW, how is your "The Answer" doing?

Cheers,
Patrick

wchuasc
Koi Lover

Jun 3, 2002, 8:45 PM

Post #25 of 44 (2410 views)
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Re: [patrick123] Green pea soup like water ! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I guess I am a lucky guy as my green water has cleared up all together and my readings are Amonia -0, NO3 - 10, NO2 - 0, PH - 7.8, KH - 3 as of this evening ! I guess I must be doing something right Wink

! My water is now crystal clear !

Anyway, just for everyone's information, I changed about 15% of water daily for 2 days (resisted changing more as a koi dealer told me that tap water kills the very same bacteria I was trying to cultivate), and have added in bacteria culture (the dry type which I have to put into a pail full of pond water and aerate type ) every 3 days. And I cut my feedings down from twice to once a day Laugh

Perhaps the only reason I can come up with for such a reversal of fortunes is that the fact that I am using "The Answer" as my mech filter as it gets rid of the solid waste and allows the "water" itself to be treated by the bacteria in the biofilter ... (I think so Tongue

!!!) and also that I have the good fortune of having many experts in this forum to advice and "hold my hand" through this crisis ! I only wish the Kujaku did not jump out of the pond Frown

But anyway, I will wait for another 2 weeks before I give into temptation to head down to the koi farm to buy another Kujaku ... and perhaps more koi's Wink

Patrick, with regards to your question about "The Answer" I can only sing praises about it as it has surpassed my expectations and all I have to do is to turn on the release tap to the bottom drain in the mech chamber for 30 seconds a day to flush out the dirt (which accumulates all in the bottom !) and there is totally no need to clean the bio chamber as I have only tried flushing it twice over the past 4 weeks only to see clean bacteria filled water being wasted ! My advice - go get it NOW ! "The Answer" is worth every dollar spent on it as it saves us a lot of time and trouble !!!

(This post was edited by wchuasc on Jun 3, 2002, 8:50 PM)

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