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Green water - TT or UV or both?

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mpagri
Koi Lover

Jun 19, 2005, 2:48 AM

Post #1 of 51 (3941 views)
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Green water - TT or UV or both?	Can't Post

I have a 9x13 foot pond about 2ft deep maximum and about 1500gal. For filtration right now all I have is a small rubbermaid box filled with lava rock and sponges. the water flows in from a 2000g/hour pump that sits on the bottom of the pond, some of the water goes thru a 9w UV and then to the filter and most direct to the filter. the water flows into the top goes thru the sponges then thru the lava rock and back up and out into a waterfall.

I used to have 5 7-8" koi in there but a blue heron cleaned them all out and right now it just has a few feeder goldfish and soon to put in some more koi.

The water is green from algea and has been since spring cleaning 1.5 months ago. My filtration is kind of small but i stock my pond very lightly. But so my question is for the green water should I buy a higher watt UV filter and if so how many watts or should i try and build and TT.

What are pros and cons of both. The UV would work faster but the TT would be better for the water in the long run right?

lilhelper
Member

Jun 19, 2005, 6:57 AM

Post #2 of 51 (3927 views)
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Re: [mpagri] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

welll it sounds like you dont have a big enough UV, try lowering the gph in the Uv to about 250 gph. then tell us your results.

your should have a sterilizer because it kills bacteria and virus plus algae. a TT does not.

you could have both if you want. i think a TT does special things too.
------------------------------------------------------------
1 ochiba shigure 13"-14"
1 aka bekko 8"-9"
2 Matsunosuke kohaku.
1 9"-10" Shusui
1 Matsunosuke Showa
1 Matsunosuke Sanke
1 10"-12" Yamabuki ogon

DONE WITH MY POND, look at it in members pond, under MY NEW POND.

Bamboo
Koi Lover

Jun 19, 2005, 7:16 AM

Post #3 of 51 (3924 views)
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Re: [mpagri] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I just fixed the same problem you have!
I didnt have enouh mechanical filtration or bio filtration.
Increase the size of your lava rock box to at least 75 gal tub worth. Install a vortex filter to minimize cleaning of your (new stock tank? )
you should be good to go.
dont make it harder than it is you just need more filter to catch the green crap.

KangaKoi
Koi Lover

Jun 19, 2005, 9:11 AM

Post #4 of 51 (3915 views)
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Re: [mpagri] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

'Patient my young apprentice' (I've always wanted to say that, it so kool) give your filter time to mature and the 'green' problem will disappear. get yourself some good kois instead of a 'kill all' UV because if you live 'a bit' dirty you will live longer.

Koi38
Senior Member

Jun 19, 2005, 4:42 PM

Post #5 of 51 (3904 views)
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Re: [mpagri] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mpagri,
Reading all the info given, to me your filter is under size(how big is it) Your pump size is good but having a small filter
the waste doesn't have enough time to settle and it goes straight back to your pond before the filter does its job. You can
add two more filters which will be your settlement and prefilter chambers. The first one is to filter the solid waste. The
second one you place filter brushes for suspended waste. An your existing filter can be filled with either Lava rocks or
Japanese matt. And also increase your UV to at least 30watts. You may also place birds net over your pond to
protect your investment. I do have a net over my temp pond, it's an eye sore but I want to keep my babies Tongue

Good luck.
Jon

PS: You can also add TT if you want it will improve your ater quality and will add oxygen as well.

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

mpagri
Koi Lover

Jun 20, 2005, 12:06 AM

Post #6 of 51 (3885 views)
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Re: [Koi38] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

If i lower the flow rate through the UV can I make this 9w one work? I think the problem is that if i lower it too slow then the algea reproduce faster than they go through the UV. Is that right?

So what would be better building a TT or expanding my existing filter? I wanted to go with TT because my original filter is now part of my waterfall and half under rocks and half under soil, it would be very hard to change that. I could easily add a second pump and add a TT off to the side without changing much. But i guess a TT wont do much for mechanical filtration right?

mpagri
Koi Lover

Jun 20, 2005, 7:56 AM

Post #7 of 51 (3877 views)
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Re: [mpagri] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I bought a 36w Jebo UV filter. I'll run that for a week and see how that helps my situation.

Koi38
Senior Member

Jun 20, 2005, 8:03 AM

Post #8 of 51 (3876 views)
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Re: [mpagri] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I see you bought a new UV, that's good. Smile

The TT is not a mechanical filter, its a biofilter. Adding a TT will boost your
biofilter and also will add lots of oxygen to your pond. Wink

IMHO, I will still add TT if you can. Just make sure you
pump the water from a settlement chamber then to TT, this way you don't clog up your Lava rocks.

Remember the bigger the filter the better Cool

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

mpagri
Koi Lover

Jun 24, 2005, 1:25 AM

Post #9 of 51 (3763 views)
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Re: [Koi38] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I put on the new 36w UV yesterday. I hooked it up to a 500gph pump that i put into the pond and i put the output into a bucket full of filter wool. How long should it take for the pond to start looking clear again? is 500gph the right pump for 36w?

Koi38
Senior Member

Jun 24, 2005, 1:40 AM

Post #10 of 51 (3758 views)
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Re: [mpagri] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi mpagri,

You should see the water clearing with 3 days Smile

. Your UV will handle your pump with no dramas even if you increase the size of your pump to 1000gph. You said you place the out put into a bucket full of wool going to where. Can you please elaborate more.

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

mpagri
Koi Lover

Jun 24, 2005, 2:07 AM

Post #11 of 51 (3755 views)
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Re: [Koi38] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have the bucket pouring back into the pond. i figured i could catch the dead algae this way plus polish the water a little mechanically.

Koi38
Senior Member

Jun 24, 2005, 2:12 AM

Post #12 of 51 (3752 views)
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Re: [mpagri] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi mpagri,

Got the point. Trial and error always works. All you have to do now is wait for a few more days Cool

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

Frosty
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2005, 5:58 AM

Post #13 of 51 (3679 views)
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Re: [KangaKoi] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

KangaKoi

Your words are truly wise, echoing my advice to many, based on over 20 years of keeping happy healthy Koi in crystal clear water Sly

.

Nature's way (substantial biomasses) is the best, with an ample pounding of the water down some substantial limestone waterfalls. I once read a poor translation from a japanes Koi Breeder, which went along the lines of "for water to remain pure, must fall at least four feet over stone!"

Know what, the guy was right Wink

Long-Time Koi Lover

(This post was edited by Frosty on Jun 25, 2005, 5:59 AM)

Attachments:

Pond02.jpg (46.6 KB)

Koi38
Senior Member

Jun 25, 2005, 2:41 PM

Post #14 of 51 (3661 views)
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Re: [Frosty] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nice pond you got there Frosty Cool

Love it, very natural. Environment is awesome Cool

Thanks for the pix mate Smile

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

KangaKoi
Koi Lover

Jun 26, 2005, 8:10 AM

Post #15 of 51 (3633 views)
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Re: [Frosty] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Frosty,

You made me blush although is dam cold this morning. Like anyone new to the hobbie i have tried everythings to keep my waterclear (including lower the water level of the pond so that i can see my kois) then i gave up. Then one morning the water clear, then i found this article.

http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/GRENH2O.html

then i realied i have tried too hard. There is another wise man out there and his name is Forsty. Then came the rabbit, then the rabbit went down the hole....etc he...he...

Frosty
Koi Lover

Jun 26, 2005, 4:52 PM

Post #16 of 51 (3616 views)
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Re: [KangaKoi] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

No need to blush Kanga Cool

. Acknowledge your 'post-graduate' status with pride!

I read 'Norm's' article with interest (thanks for the link). He has indeed undertaken some valuable work here, but I would venture to suggest the process is more akin to the development of 'antibodies' as opposed to 'antibiotic'. This is because of the continuing process of seek find and destroy.

I would only partially dismiss the theory in light of the following:

When we re-started the newly extended pond, the main biomass comprised the original filter bed material, which had lain dormant and dry for some months. There was therefore no actual heterotrophic activity present when the system was kick started again, yet from that day to this, no green bloom whatsoever.

There is an abundance of dark green filamentateous and 'mat' algae, which our Koi love to chomp on in between feeds (Saki Hikari), and the excess of which is 'twisted' out weekly with a 22mm split ended plastic pipe.

I still support the original theory of 'pounding' (at high turnover) the sytem over high stone based waterfalls.

The attached pic shows the height of the return commencing from egrees of the uplifted system via the top 'vortex' rock pool.
Long-Time Koi Lover

Attachments:

Pond16.jpg (49.4 KB)

Frosty
Koi Lover

Jun 26, 2005, 4:56 PM

Post #17 of 51 (3611 views)
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Re: [Koi38] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Check these out too Wink

Long-Time Koi Lover

Attachments:

Pond01.jpg (33.6 KB)

Pond15.jpg (49.7 KB)

Koi38
Senior Member

Jun 26, 2005, 6:12 PM

Post #18 of 51 (3604 views)
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Re: [Frosty] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Frosty,

Now that's is very nice Cool

You have your own bridge Shocked

Good job and thanks for sharing Smile

Oh yeah nice kois too!!!

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

KangaKoi
Koi Lover

Jun 27, 2005, 10:41 AM

Post #19 of 51 (3557 views)
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Re: [Frosty] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dear Frosty,

First of all, Wow... Beautiful pond and kois, how do you known that was my dream pond? he..he..

Second, please direct us to articles or enlighting us on the theory of 'Pounding'. We know about the excess bio-mass(bigger filters better water quality) and high water turnover rate. But waterfall over limestone, for better airation? or limestone increases ph? your 'pounding' theory made me think deeply. Waiting for your reply.

Regards
Kanga

KangaKoi
Koi Lover

Jun 27, 2005, 10:57 AM

Post #20 of 51 (3552 views)
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Re: [Frosty] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Sorry Frosty,

I found your answers to my questions over the other thread. I anyone following this thread then click on link below:

http://www.koi.com.my/cgi-bin/koiforum/gforum.cgi?post=41373;#41373

to see the discustion on the above questions of mine. Deep thinking, deep thinking. Thanks for sharing Frosty, haven't time to read it carefully yet got to run but i will be back.

KangaKoi
Koi Lover

Jun 27, 2005, 2:55 PM

Post #21 of 51 (3514 views)
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Re: [Frosty] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Wow, Frosty!

Are you the person who's came up with the concept of KISS? and are you the same person who's wrote the article on KISS of discus fish? I read this article long ago (I can't find it anywhere now) in the day that i keept tropical fish (I still have a tank of Discus at home and nothing else). Please advise before i'll go on any further with the discustion.

Frosty
Koi Lover

Jun 27, 2005, 3:02 PM

Post #22 of 51 (3517 views)
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Re: [KangaKoi] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

At this point in time, I don't have any pictures which show the course that the water traverses from the vortex pool to create the 'pounding' effect.

Essentially, it's forced through a series of turns and boulder 'venturis', eventually crashing into the stone basin preceding the slate lip of the main waterfall. This action is not dissimilar to the 'Vortex' required for water to 'live', as detailed in the excellent works of Viktor Schauberger http://www.frank.germano.com/viktorschauberger_2.htm
Cool

Long-Time Koi Lover

Attachments:

Pond08.jpg (49.1 KB)

Showa Sanshoku#3.jpg (19.7 KB)

KangaKoi
Koi Lover

Jun 27, 2005, 3:33 PM

Post #23 of 51 (3509 views)
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Re: [Frosty] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks you Frosty,

That's a lot of reading to do, I have print it out and will read over tea tonite. I will meditate over the idea before having any opinions.

You have not answered my question regarding the KISS concept. Still waiting for your reply.

Frosty
Koi Lover

Jun 27, 2005, 3:37 PM

Post #24 of 51 (3503 views)
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Re: [KangaKoi] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

KISS= "Keep It Simple Stupid" Angelic

As a saying, it's been around for donkey's years! I've never published any of my findings, but my experience since 1970 ranges through keeping Cichlids, African & South American, graduating to Marines in 1982.

I became concerned that no matter what hobbyist attempted to achieve, the best we could hope to maintain was that our aquarium housed animals would survive 'despite us', not 'because of us'. Most domestic aquaria (even the larger ones) are the fish equivalent of living in a puddle. Koi however have been reared in ponds for hundreds of years, so we have great opportunities available to enhance their lives, and in so doing, positicely enrich our own Smile

Long-Time Koi Lover

(This post was edited by Frosty on Jun 27, 2005, 3:49 PM)

Attachments:

10042005Koi#6.jpg (65.9 KB)

Pond30.jpg (37.1 KB)

KangaKoi
Koi Lover

Jun 27, 2005, 4:55 PM

Post #25 of 51 (3494 views)
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Re: [Frosty] Green water - TT or UV or both? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Frosty,

Where i came from kois (carps) is mean 'good dinner'. I remember as a child if i catch a fish (carps) my mum will put it in the vase no larger than 40cm and about the same deep and i will feed it cooked rice it live for days until my mum decide how to cook it best.

I too keept Siamese fighting fish, then goldfish, then African Cithlids, then Discus then gratuated to kois. Every steps up costs me more and more. Then it hits me. remember back in your childhood day and remember mum's vase. The discus tank with 5 remain discus in it is a testamony to the KISS concept. now aday i keep my kois the same way and enjoying them.

I think i just hijacked this thread. But the bottom line that us oldie trying to made here is use the TT becuses it cheap and simple, ignore the UV becuase UV will cause your wallet to develop cancer. No doubt, i will get my butt kick for the comment that i just made and i just thought kois pond is for RR not to add more stress to your every living.

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